mickb wrote:Hi folks , nice forum. I was looking to try out some of the hawkesbury river and westcastings coated 158grain bullets in a rossi 92 lever action. I understand they can be pushed a lot faster than regular cast without gas checks thanks to the coating.
One question is though since no cast bullet data usually goes this fast, do I just work up safely myself? I could start with moderate jacketed bullet data but jackets put a lot more drag on the bore so I am not sure what will be going on if I use these loads for a polycoated cast. I 'think' it should be safe as they will be causing less pressure?
Another question is what sort of speed can they be pushed. I think one of the sites says 1800fps?
The last question is what will these bullets be doing at impact on pigs and so forth? They are 16BHN which is sort of hard, but at such higher speeds I am wondering if they will expand slightly, fragment or maintain shape and zip through?
Could work all this out by trial and error but was interested to know if anyone has already done any of the above before I commit to a purchase.
mickb wrote:Thanks fellas. Was just curious to know what 16BHN does at 1800-2000fps, since some of the yanks claim this velocity. Its a moot point if the useful velocity is a lot lower, they will of course be doing the hardcast thing
mickb wrote:Thanks fellas. Was just curious to know what 16BHN does at 1800-2000fps, since some of the yanks claim this velocity. Its a moot point if the useful velocity is a lot lower, they will of course be doing the hardcast thing and zippin through.
Probably wouldn't agree cast bullets only have their place on the range though. Quite a few hunting sports out there that do pretty well with them. Not everything has to perform like high powered jacketed bullets to be ethical or we wipe out the sports of traditional muzzeloading, BP pistol hunting and archery
in2anity wrote:mickb wrote:Thanks fellas. Was just curious to know what 16BHN does at 1800-2000fps, since some of the yanks claim this velocity. Its a moot point if the useful velocity is a lot lower, they will of course be doing the hardcast thing
They’re probably gas checked, you can drive em harder with a check. Without a check, depending on the powder, you see obturation issues. And a lot of the HRBCs are beveled base (BB) so uncheckable
bladeracer wrote:mickb wrote:Hi folks , nice forum. I was looking to try out some of the hawkesbury river and westcastings coated 158grain bullets in a rossi 92 lever action. I understand they can be pushed a lot faster than regular cast without gas checks thanks to the coating.
One question is though since no cast bullet data usually goes this fast, do I just work up safely myself? I could start with moderate jacketed bullet data but jackets put a lot more drag on the bore so I am not sure what will be going on if I use these loads for a polycoated cast. I 'think' it should be safe as they will be causing less pressure?
Another question is what sort of speed can they be pushed. I think one of the sites says 1800fps?
The last question is what will these bullets be doing at impact on pigs and so forth? They are 16BHN which is sort of hard, but at such higher speeds I am wondering if they will expand slightly, fragment or maintain shape and zip through?
Could work all this out by trial and error but was interested to know if anyone has already done any of the above before I commit to a purchase.
Cast your own bullets in soft lead and powder coat them if you want to, but you don't have to if you're keeping the velocities lowish. Hard cast bullets are for drilling holes, okay for small game, but on any live target you need very precise shot placement as with FMJ's -brainstem and cervical spine. I wouldn't expect that level of precision out of an older lever-action.
bladeracer wrote:mickb wrote:Thanks fellas. Was just curious to know what 16BHN does at 1800-2000fps, since some of the yanks claim this velocity. Its a moot point if the useful velocity is a lot lower, they will of course be doing the hardcast thing and zippin through.
Probably wouldn't agree cast bullets only have their place on the range though. Quite a few hunting sports out there that do pretty well with them. Not everything has to perform like high powered jacketed bullets to be ethical or we wipe out the sports of traditional muzzeloading, BP pistol hunting and archery
Black powder generally use soft lead bullets which expand just fine.
mickb wrote:bladeracer wrote:mickb wrote:Thanks fellas. Was just curious to know what 16BHN does at 1800-2000fps, since some of the yanks claim this velocity. Its a moot point if the useful velocity is a lot lower, they will of course be doing the hardcast thing and zippin through.
Probably wouldn't agree cast bullets only have their place on the range though. Quite a few hunting sports out there that do pretty well with them. Not everything has to perform like high powered jacketed bullets to be ethical or we wipe out the sports of traditional muzzeloading, BP pistol hunting and archery
Black powder generally use soft lead bullets which expand just fine.
Blackpowder often uses hardcast as well mate, so do many pistols for hunting.
bladeracer wrote:
Not for hunting though.
Diamond Jim wrote:I use Westcasting Moly-coated projectiles almost exclusively for punching paper and I continue to buy them over and over again. The information from the firm was to use data for equivalent weight copper-cased projectiles. I don't. I'm only trying to make a certain power factor and load accordingly.
I don't use my .357 rifle for hunting often (sometimes it's the go to rifle) but I wouldn't choose cast bullets for game. I'd choose a dedicated and properly constructed flat-nosed or hollow-point projectile for hunting.
mickb wrote:bladeracer wrote:
Not for hunting though.
Not sure if you read the whole sentence , 'so do many pistols for hunting' ? Hardcasts are used all the time for big game around the world hunting mate, with BP or smokless arms.
cracker wrote:used softcast in my 44-40 makes a bloody mess of the barrel, never again such a pain in the ass
Blr243 wrote:I tried hard cast lead once on a pig with a 44 mag lever but never again. Not fair to the animal. I went straight back to my soft lead hp sierras in my 357 lever
bladeracer wrote:mickb wrote:bladeracer wrote:
Not for hunting though.
Not sure if you read the whole sentence , 'so do many pistols for hunting' ? Hardcasts are used all the time for big game around the world hunting mate, with BP or smokless arms.
I didn't say you can't use hardcast for hunting, many people do, particularly on large game where the alternative is to use FMJ jacketed or brass monolithic bullets. As long as you understand the limitations of your bullet there's no problem hunting with FMJ's. As for handguns, they often operate at velocities that offer little bullet deformation anyway. But as I said, generally black powder hunters would use soft lead bullets.
bigrich wrote:Blr243 wrote:I tried hard cast lead once on a pig with a 44 mag lever but never again. Not fair to the animal. I went straight back to my soft lead hp sierras in my 357 lever
How do the sierras perform on game mate ? I haven’t field tested yet , but 158 gn Hornady XTP with little gun are giving me good accuracy and yet to be confirmed good FPS as well. Bin using the FP version of those projectiles , which are supposed to suit rifle projectile speed better. There’s a few things for you to try mickb. The listed max load of 18 gn of little gun is supposed to give FPS between 1750-1850. So some forums say . Take this with a grain of salt , but it gives the 357 some thump with no pressure signs . Cheers
bladeracer wrote:Shouldn't need checks if they're coated.
in2anity wrote:bladeracer wrote:Shouldn't need checks if they're coated.
So tell me how fast have you successfully driven coated, unchecked lead blade? (without stabilization issues)