model 70 project rifle

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model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 11:33 am

well fellas, i was in my local gun shop asking about what was available as a donor rifle for my 358 win conversion i had planned. young john behind the counter (knowing i have a soft spot for model 70's ) , says hang on a minute, disappears out the back of the shop and comes back out with a gem of a old winchester . i looked it over and bought it without hesitation . it has really nice walnut stock, usually these cheaper 70A wichesters have a plain pine looking timber stock. before heading of to a smith for the rebarrel in 358 , i thought i would get a box or two of ammo and have a play at the range . pulled it down for a clean and a trigger tweak and headed out to see how it shot. just bought some 80 grain rem box ammo cause it was cheap .not all that flash, 2 1/2" vertical string groups. hmm, don't have too much on, i'll just float the barrel . groups closed to a more even spread of around 1 3/4" . yeah okay, i'll remove the bulky front sight and see if it improves ( removing the front sight did improve a ruger 308 scout rifle i had by a fair bit ) . i bought home the gas torch from work that we use for soldering, but couldn't get enough heat out of it to remove the front sight . hmm. stuff it ! i was going to rebarrel anyway, where's the 5" grinder :lol: at this point i will state i am a sheet metal worker by trade, and have done a lot of different fabricating jobs over the years , including stainless stell fabrication and polishing. i carefully ground down the front sight till it was super thin and i could see the two spots of solder holding it , then just lightly and carefully ground at those spots with a barrel grinder till it was off . a bit of hand sanding with 1200 wet and dry and a cold blue job and i was done, with hardly a mark to be seen . and yes it grouped smaller again and with more consistancy. at this point i decided it was a useful caliber for what i generally hunt, and a set of dies were in order . with the 87 vmaxs load i came up with after only 20 reloads and a bit of research and advice from a mate who shoots a 243 , i could put the second shot through the first hole , only being slightly off with the third . a bit more developement and this old original barreled winchester should be a great shooter. might even bed it ... :D i thought i would put this little exercise on here for others to maybe get some ideas on "tunning" their rifles . that and i'm off work sick and bored sh!tless :lol:
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 11:39 am

Couple of pics
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Really nice figure in the wood
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The new toy
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 11:47 am

Few pics of the progress
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Two slightly different handloads, not sighted in , just checking groups
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After front sight removed
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After barrel floating
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 11:50 am

appologies for the pics being out of order and sideways/upside down , modern technology is not one of my strong points :lol:

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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by marksman » 26 Jun 2019, 2:39 pm

a definite keeper there BR :drinks:
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 3:11 pm

marksman wrote:a definite keeper there BR :drinks:


thanks mate, i thought so too. i was off work today and bored. thought this post might be helpful to those that like to tinker or are new to this firearm game . in2anity's post on his marlin lever gun tweaks got me thinking to have a play with mine. and i got some improvement out of it . so long as safety is observed i think a lot off us have information we can share about our homespun gunsmithing . some guys on this forum like homer do some brilliant work :thumbsup:

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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by in2anity » 26 Jun 2019, 3:49 pm

Well done mate - love these kinds of posts. They motivate me also.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 4:49 pm

in2anity wrote:Well done mate - love these kinds of posts. They motivate me also.


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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigpete » 26 Jun 2019, 5:01 pm

Definitely need to turn it into a 358....:D
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 5:03 pm

got some more load work this weekend. i'm going to try out some loads with the sierra 85gn gameking. supposedly a very accurate "all round" projectile for the 243 , the hornady 87gn vmax being a lot more frangable. however , a bloke who's bin giving me advice on 243 loads has used them on deer with great sucess so long as their put in the heart/lung area . i want something that's a bit sturdier for penetration should i come across a pig . however, one odd thing is sierra give the loaded COL length as 2.650 . i've checked and rechecked a dozen times with the hornady gauge (great tool ) and dummy case, and these projectiles touch the lands at 2.622 in MY rifle ! just goes to show to check things properly and not assume anything . i've done my first reloads at 2.602 and will see how this goes . i'm not going for max velocity , but accuracy. if i can keep my loads around 3050-3100 FPS i'll be happy as barrel life should be good

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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 5:18 pm

bigpete wrote:Definitely need to turn it into a 358....:D


well, why not have both ? :D 22lr, 22hornet , 222 ,243, 6.5x55 and a 358 win . and my old 1948 leige sxs 12Ga . that's got everything covered. ya don't see rabbits in qld and over the border nsw where i go ya don't see many in the granite ridge high country either . i probably got too many bunny guns, but i can't part with any as their all real good shooters . almost forgot i got a really good "one ton of lever gun fun " 357 marlin . this may have to go to make room for the 358 :roll: leftover 158 and 180 grain 357 mag hollow point projectiles would be interesting out of a 358 win . would be spectacular on foxes and cats
maybe i just need another safe....... :crazy:

hello , my name is big rich and i'm a gun-a-holic :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigpete » 26 Jun 2019, 5:23 pm

Bitch please ! I've got 2x22lr,22wmr,17hmr,223,22/250,243(358),308, 44 mag,45/70,2x50 cal muzzleloaders, 12g muzzleloader,and 2x12g cartridge guns.

And you think you're a gunaholic....:D
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 5:29 pm

bigpete wrote:Bitch please ! I've got 2x22lr,22wmr,17hmr,223,22/250,243(358),308, 44 mag,45/70,2x50 cal muzzleloaders, 12g muzzleloader,and 2x12g cartridge guns.

And you think you're a gunaholic....:D


yes, your right pete you got it bad :lol: the 45-70 and the 50 cal muzzle loaders are very interesting . your a terrible influence pete . i wonder what sort of deal i can get on another safe....... :crazy: how big a safe do i need for a civil war cannon i wonder .... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigpete » 26 Jun 2019, 5:48 pm

I like big bores and I cannot lie...
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 6:12 pm

bigpete wrote:I like big bores and I cannot lie...


well, if ya got enough of a rabbit problem i'll lend you my civil war canon i'm gunna buy and you can load canister loads . now that's a shotgun :D
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigpete » 26 Jun 2019, 6:14 pm

Deal !
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 6:19 pm

bigpete wrote:Deal !


you need help pete ..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbsup:
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigpete » 26 Jun 2019, 6:27 pm

No,I need a good woman...:(
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by SCJ429 » 26 Jun 2019, 7:06 pm

bigrich wrote:got some more load work this weekend. i'm going to try out some loads with the sierra 85gn gameking. supposedly a very accurate "all round" projectile for the 243 , the hornady 87gn vmax being a lot more frangable. however , a bloke who's bin giving me advice on 243 loads has used them on deer with great sucess so long as their put in the heart/lung area . i want something that's a bit sturdier for penetration should i come across a pig . however, one odd thing is sierra give the loaded COL length as 2.650 . i've checked and rechecked a dozen times with the hornady gauge (great tool ) and dummy case, and these projectiles touch the lands at 2.622 in MY rifle ! just goes to show to check things properly and not assume anything . i've done my first reloads at 2.602 and will see how this goes . i'm not going for max velocity , but accuracy. if i can keep my loads around 3050-3100 FPS i'll be happy as barrel life should be good

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:


You may find if you speed things up a bit you will get the accuracy you are chasing. I can shoot an 87 grain Vmax out of my 6mmBR at 3,050 fps. I shoot 107 grain pills out of a 243 at 3,300 fps and that barrel has more than 2,500 rounds through it. Not telling you how to run your barrel just observations from my own experience. Speed is often your friend.
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 26 Jun 2019, 8:32 pm

the 87 vmax load i'm using should be around the 3050 fps already SCJ . a mate runs the same load in his . between 3000-3100 seems to be the accuracy node for this projectile weight and caliber . it's a balancing act and compromise at times. i can push a 120 nosler bt out of my 6.5x55 for astounding accuracy, but that projectile is unsuitable for stout pigs and the fps is higher than i'm comfortable with for barrel life. i went back to 140sst hornady's at 2810 fps . i quite often feel for how hot my barrel gets at the range, and heat can definately affect accuracy and barrel life. that's my opinion any way for what it's worth :thumbsup:
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by GQshayne » 26 Jun 2019, 8:38 pm

From what I can see in your photos, that stock looks great. As you say, a lot of old 70's look very plain, so do you know if it was a specific model?? I do not know much about them, but they made a Super Grade didn't they? Yours looks fantastic. You will likely find that a re-finish would have it looking like a million dollars. Not hard to do either. I have done a few now.

If you are intending to keep it as a .243 for a while, and want to make it as accurate as possible, then have a look at the action bedding too. A DIY job with JB Weld is easy enough to do, assuming yours is not done already.

As far as loading goes, 87-90 gn projectiles such as Hornady Interlock or Speer Hot Cor work well on pigs. I have always used AR2209 for my reloads. I have also loaded some 70gn Noslers with 2209, and that groups nicely too.
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by SCJ429 » 26 Jun 2019, 9:53 pm

bigrich wrote:the 87 vmax load i'm using should be around the 3050 fps already SCJ . a mate runs the same load in his . between 3000-3100 seems to be the accuracy node for this projectile weight and caliber . it's a balancing act and compromise at times. i can push a 120 nosler bt out of my 6.5x55 for astounding accuracy, but that projectile is unsuitable for stout pigs and the fps is higher than i'm comfortable with for barrel life. i went back to 140sst hornady's at 2810 fps . i quite often feel for how hot my barrel gets at the range, and heat can definately affect accuracy and barrel life. that's my opinion any way for what it's worth :thumbsup:


I was just saying that a 6mmBR using just over 30 grains of powder can shoot at the same speed you are running your 243 at. You are leaving a lot of speed on the table there. I find that the best accuracy often occurs at a reasonable speed. If you are getting the results out of your 243 that you are looking for then, well done you.

For me, barrel maintenance and long strings play more of a role in barrel life than knocking over 300 fps off the speed you are running at. I don't consider running 107s at 3300 fps to be on the ragged edge for my rifle and I think 2500 round count to be pretty good given the pressures I am running. Again not preaching, just discussing what I have observed.
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 27 Jun 2019, 4:48 am

Hey GQshane, the specific model of this rifle is a “westener “ , which is printed on the barrel. I’ve seen this model before, but never with a wallnut stock like this ones got. I own two other model 70’s , a 222 xtr that shoots like a laser, and a super grade in 6.5x55 . The stock on the xtr i redid with tri-oil and it’s turned out nice. Besides a possible bedding job I’ll probably leave the 243 stock alone for the moment. Cheers
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 27 Jun 2019, 4:54 am

SCJ429 wrote:
bigrich wrote:the 87 vmax load i'm using should be around the 3050 fps already SCJ . a mate runs the same load in his . between 3000-3100 seems to be the accuracy node for this projectile weight and caliber . it's a balancing act and compromise at times. i can push a 120 nosler bt out of my 6.5x55 for astounding accuracy, but that projectile is unsuitable for stout pigs and the fps is higher than i'm comfortable with for barrel life. i went back to 140sst hornady's at 2810 fps . i quite often feel for how hot my barrel gets at the range, and heat can definately affect accuracy and barrel life. that's my opinion any way for what it's worth :thumbsup:


I was just saying that a 6mmBR using just over 30 grains of powder can shoot at the same speed you are running your 243 at. You are leaving a lot of speed on the table there. I find that the best accuracy often occurs at a reasonable speed. If you are getting the results out of your 243 that you are looking for then, well done you.

For me, barrel maintenance and long strings play more of a role in barrel life than knocking over 300 fps off the speed you are running at. I don't consider running 107s at 3300 fps to be on the ragged edge for my rifle and I think 2500 round count to be pretty good given the pressures I am running. Again not preaching, just discussing what I have observed.


Don’t take me the wrong way mate I appreciate any advice I can get. I’m cautious by nature, especially with loading things that go “bang” lol . If I can get 3100 FPS with a trajectory of 2.5 @100 and around 2.3” @200 that’ll do me for a hunting rifle
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by GQshayne » 27 Jun 2019, 7:46 pm

I have never had a chrono, so have only ever gone off load data in manuals etc. In later years I have erred on the mild side too, reducing my loads from what they were back in the 80's when I was a lad. So any info I can offer will be no more than you can get on the ADI website! :lol:

But from memory, using 85-87 grain projectiles I have always sighted in 1" high at 100m, for approx. zero at 150m, and a couple of inches low at 200. For pig sized game, pretty much aim dead-on at all reasonable ranges, for me anyway. Rare occasion I have shot a pig at further than 200m.
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 28 Jun 2019, 10:16 pm

GQshayne wrote:I have never had a chrono, so have only ever gone off load data in manuals etc. In later years I have erred on the mild side too, reducing my loads from what they were back in the 80's when I was a lad. So any info I can offer will be no more than you can get on the ADI website! :lol:

But from memory, using 85-87 grain projectiles I have always sighted in 1" high at 100m, for approx. zero at 150m, and a couple of inches low at 200. For pig sized game, pretty much aim dead-on at all reasonable ranges, for me anyway. Rare occasion I have shot a pig at further than 200m.


at the end of the day it's what works. i got some more handloads to try this weekend , once i settle on the best load i'll chrono the load and post it. for pigs , i like my 6.5x55 .... :D
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 29 Jun 2019, 6:32 pm

Well fellas, this old Winchester 70 is turning out to be a pretty good shooter. And the Sierra 85 grain HPBT seems to be living up to their reputation for good accuracy. I’m going to fine tune this load , chrono it, and check trajectory next weekend :thumbsup:
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by Oldbloke » 29 Jun 2019, 6:38 pm

You should be very happy with that. What did she cost?
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by bigrich » 29 Jun 2019, 8:11 pm

Oldbloke wrote:You should be very happy with that. What did she cost?


i paid $700 for the rifle (pics at the begining of the topic) and got the scope ( bushnell xlt extreme , 2-10x42 with a 30mm tube ) for $200 from the same shop . probably coulda got a second hand tikka for a bit more or a new package deal howa/weatherby , but i like the old school all steel model 70's . and they have a simple,consistant ,easily adjustable no creep trigger standard. after i get my load sorted i think i'll bed it :thumbsup:
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Re: model 70 project rifle

Post by GQshayne » 29 Jun 2019, 8:11 pm

Fine tuning????? Looks finished to me! LOL
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