223 vs 22-250 for roos

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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by bladeracer » 06 Dec 2022, 10:05 am

bigrich wrote:
JohnV wrote:The roo shooting regulations are stupid . They want them all head shot but in the code of conduct you can still euthanize a wounded roo with a steel bar . Not many armature shooters can afford to shoot a lot of roos on tags anymore . Ammo is too expensive now .


I don’t see how the rules are stupid for setting a humane level of practice for culling.
Maybe armature shooters who don’t have the skills or money to afford ammo shouldn’t be culling in the first place. I don’t mind culling ferals but I have a certain amount of empathy for them and don’t take “iffy” shots.
:thumbsup:


While I agree that the Code sets a minimum level of accuracy for practicing your shooting (which all hunters should endeavour to exceed anyway), I don't agree that the Code does anything to enforce humane shooting. How to humanely take an animal should be left to the hunter in the specific situation. We should certainly educate people so they can better make these decisions but we shouldn't be forcing people under legal ramifications to make very specific shots when other choices may be more humane in the circumstances. A whole swathe of "amateurs" were given free reign a couple years ago to take roos on private property without requiring cull tickets (but still adhering to the Code) in NSW to help during the drought - has there been a slew of complaints of inhumane roo shooting as a result? A 150gn .30-06 into the boiler room at 30m will drop a roo emphatically on the spot, but is not legal under the Code. When I was up north the locals were taking roos with LR and WMR every day. In the US many states have "hunter education" which you have to do to be able to get a hunting licence, and it bullies you away from head-shooting by labelling it as "unethical". They try to force hunters to take boiler room shots and track the grievously wounded animal (for hundreds of metres at times) because a head shot that kills in an instant is "not ethical".

Many farmers have serious roo issues and simply don't have money for ammo, regardless of their abilities. I bought a slab of 12ga. and 200rds of .223 a while back for a mate in NSW that was stuck watching birds and pigs destroy his orchards because he couldn't afford ammo - he certainly couldn't pay pro shooters to come in. I would hope other farmers doing it tough on the land with feral pest problems are also getting help from others when they need it.
Last edited by bladeracer on 06 Dec 2022, 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by JohnV » 06 Dec 2022, 1:49 pm

You missed my point if it's ok to kill them with a steel bar then is chest shooting all that bad . The regulations have been changed to make it harder for many armature shooters . No other reason .
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by animalpest » 06 Dec 2022, 3:41 pm

I think you also missed my point. Its only acceptable to use an alternative to shooting a wounded roo a second time if shooting is unsafe. Only then can you use your steel bar.

Suggesting that chest shooting is the same as a steel bar is not quite what the Code is requiring. And the Code has chest shooting as unacceptable, as is running around with a steel bar.

The Code is not about making it too tough for amateurs, its about improving animal welfare outcomes. If that is too tough, then I respectfully suggest you improve.
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by bigrich » 06 Dec 2022, 6:32 pm

animalpest wrote:

The Code is not about making it too tough for amateurs, its about improving animal welfare outcomes. If that is too tough, then I respectfully suggest you improve.


agreed . that's where i'm coming from . armatures blazing away like "yosemite sam" .poor shot placement ,using the wrong firearm and or ammo is not a good look . by wrong ammo/firearm , i saw a fella use a 308 with target ammo pencil straight through a roo, nice stream pumping out of it's chest ,while the roo stood there looking back . poor thing suffered . this guy was a armature shooter on his parents property .

i appreciate what your getting at blade , but i think if folks operate outside the code they should keep it to themselves .

what happens on someone's property is their own business , but if any animal libbers/greens find out , it could be trouble .

back onto topic, a 50/55 vmax out of a 222/223 works good out to 200 meters , a 22-250 is faster ,flatter and noisier . theoretically it can reach out much further, but that's outside the code for roo culling . lots of old roo shooters would have gone deaf from the 22-250 :thumbsup:
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by animalpest » 06 Dec 2022, 6:35 pm

I'm deaf

:lol:
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by bigrich » 06 Dec 2022, 6:39 pm

animalpest wrote:I'm deaf

:lol:


what ?!? :lol:
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by bladeracer » 06 Dec 2022, 9:28 pm

bigrich wrote:i appreciate what your getting at blade , but i think if folks operate outside the code they should keep it to themselves.


I don't suggest anybody operate outside the Code, I just hope the Code gets revoked eventually.
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by JohnV » 08 Dec 2022, 7:59 am

Their will be just as many wounded roos by demanding head shots only than allowing amateurs to take a chest shot with the right projectile . The head shot only code for professionals was originally about protecting meat quality not the humane aspects as compared to a chest shot . I have seen more roos run off dazed or crippled from a bad head shot from others than from a central chest shot .
I have no problem with head shots I can do it all night long if I want with several rifles I have but there is others that have difficulty and I don't see any good reason to ban a chest shot for armature pest control under tags . It's just anther way to make life harder for amateur shooters . As Blade says , I am not advocating not following the code .
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by animalpest » 08 Dec 2022, 9:54 am

JohnV wrote:Their will be just as many wounded roos by demanding head shots only than allowing amateurs to take a chest shot with the right projectile . The head shot only code for professionals was originally about protecting meat quality not the humane aspects as compared to a chest shot . I have seen more roos run off dazed or crippled from a bad head shot from others than from a central chest shot .
I have no problem with head shots I can do it all night long if I want with several rifles I have but there is others that have difficulty and I don't see any good reason to ban a chest shot for armature pest control under tags . It's just anther way to make life harder for amateur shooters . As Blade says , I am not advocating not following the code .


"with right right projectile". And if it's not "the right projectile" ?

A .224 calibre hole through the ribs does very little damage to meat.

With all due respect for those who can't head shoot roos or don't want to, then I suggest you get better.
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by bladeracer » 08 Dec 2022, 12:12 pm

animalpest wrote:"with right right projectile". And if it's not "the right projectile" ?

A .224 calibre hole through the ribs does very little damage to meat.

With all due respect for those who can't head shoot roos or don't want to, then I suggest you get better.


Do you consider boiler room shots to be less effective on roos than other animals of similar thoracic build, like foxes, dogs and small deer?

I agree that all hunters should hone their shooting/hunting skills to be very capable of head-shots on roos, I don't agree head shots should be a legal requirement though.
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by JohnV » 08 Dec 2022, 3:43 pm

animalpest wrote:
JohnV wrote:Their will be just as many wounded roos by demanding head shots only than allowing amateurs to take a chest shot with the right projectile . The head shot only code for professionals was originally about protecting meat quality not the humane aspects as compared to a chest shot . I have seen more roos run off dazed or crippled from a bad head shot from others than from a central chest shot .
I have no problem with head shots I can do it all night long if I want with several rifles I have but there is others that have difficulty and I don't see any good reason to ban a chest shot for armature pest control under tags . It's just anther way to make life harder for amateur shooters . As Blade says , I am not advocating not following the code .


"with right right projectile". And if it's not "the right projectile" ?

A .224 calibre hole through the ribs does very little damage to meat.

With all due respect for those who can't head shoot roos or don't want to, then I suggest you get better.

With a projectile that is designed to expand well not a FMJ . I don't follow your comment about meat damage .
It's not just about meat damage it's about carcass contamination and bullets or fragments staying inside the carcass . You can't even use a coated projectile to shoot roos professionally . They just applied the professional standard to amateur pest shooting to be arseholes . It's totally not necessary or anymore humane .
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by animalpest » 08 Dec 2022, 3:58 pm

Should we accept two different standards - one for commercial shooting and a lower standard for amateurs?

Where is it written you can't use coated bullets for roo shooting?

Kangaroos are just as susceptible to chest shots as those species you list.
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by Blr243 » 08 Dec 2022, 6:04 pm

While it would. B impossible for everyone to agree on the rules , Having Standards / rules/laws in Place does make it easier to prosecute people when they sre found to be behaving awful in the paddocks eg shotguns. Gut shots , poaching , drunk with gune etc
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by bigrich » 09 Dec 2022, 12:53 pm

Blr243 wrote:While it would. B impossible for everyone to agree on the rules , Having Standards / rules/laws in Place does make it easier to prosecute people when they sre found to be behaving awful in the paddocks eg shotguns. Gut shots , poaching , drunk with gune etc


I’ve come across people over the years who’ve had a really poor attitude to humanly shooting animals and basic safety. This is why we have to have rules. A small percentage of h@lfwits ruining it for the majority of people who do the right thing
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by bladeracer » 09 Dec 2022, 2:19 pm

bigrich wrote:I’ve come across people over the years who’ve had a really poor attitude to humanly shooting animals and basic safety. This is why we have to have rules. A small percentage of h@lfwits ruining it for the majority of people who do the right thing


I've met a few as well, I doubt such rules matter to them at all. I think the vast majority of hunters want clean kills, it should be left to them in the situation to determine the best way to achieve that. Education is far better than laws when we're dealing with situations often occurring well out of sight of witnesses.
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by AussieMadman » 09 Dec 2022, 5:07 pm

i'd stick to the .223

i don't see much advantage in the 22-250
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by animalpest » 09 Dec 2022, 9:12 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigrich wrote:I’ve come across people over the years who’ve had a really poor attitude to humanly shooting animals and basic safety. This is why we have to have rules. A small percentage of h@lfwits ruining it for the majority of people who do the right thing


I've met a few as well, I doubt such rules matter to them at all. I think the vast majority of hunters want clean kills, it should be left to them in the situation to determine the best way to achieve that. Education is far better than laws when we're dealing with situations often occurring well out of sight of witnesses.


And therein lies the problem. Some will make "good" decisions and some won't. Some will know what is the right thing to do but because of laziness or whatever, they chose not to. Bit like ethics really.
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Re: 223 vs 22-250 for roos

Post by JohnV » 12 Dec 2022, 5:58 pm

Rules are ok as long as they are sensible , practical and based in facts and need not emotions . The harder it is to comply with a rule the more it will be ignored . This all reminds me of my famous twin trunk shot . One time shooting roos with a professional a roo went behind a tree with two trunks . There was just a small gap between the two trunks as he shone the light I could see the glint of his eye through the gap in the scope . The roo was eyeballing us so I said hold the light right there and lined him up with the 22-250 just a bit above the eye glinting and got him in the brain . The pro reckoned I just shot a tree but went behind the tree and retrieved the Roo he was impressed .
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