.505 Gibbs project

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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by Stoney » 21 Jul 2019, 5:38 pm

Winchester P-14 action? Literally every big game round known to man has been built on that action. It also has an awesome Old School cool look with that dog leg bolt handle. :D
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by cracker » 21 Jul 2019, 8:35 pm

Stoney wrote:Winchester P-14 action? Literally every big game round known to man has been built on that action. It also has an awesome Old School cool look with that dog leg bolt handle. :D

yeah interesting consideration but the cost would go way up.. even a real mauser action may work? but the cost would go threw the roof surely.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 29 Jul 2019, 6:56 pm

cracker wrote:think your 500 would have abit more horse power then the .505gibbs but an interesting starting point non the less thanks for the reply.


The Gibbs will far exceed any 375 H&H wildcat, it has over 170 grains water capacity vs about 108 grains for H&H based wildcats. The reason it was loaded so low traditionally 2300 with 525 grain bullets was keeping things safe with old actions and cordite powder.

These days on a strong action you can push a 600 grain bullet to nearly 2700fps. The 505 is also the basis for the 408 chey tac ultra long range rifle.


As to actions, the Gibbs rim and case size will make it too large for all but a few. The most common conversions were done on the Brno602( CZ550 predecessor), CZ550( I did a 585 Nyati on the CZ550), the granite moutain arms action, the Montana action, and the big old M17 and P14 actions though these will need more work. The Rem and wby mkV actions will all be too small. Some had a concern with the CZ550 not leaving a lot of meat on the bolt once opened out, but it turned out to be fine. CZ was actually selling 505 safari rifles here for about $4400 up until a few years ago. The specialised scaled up long range rem700 clones designed for the 408 chey tac by Stiller and Lawnton will also accomodate a 505 Gibbs since the 408 is based off it. You could have fun with a detachable box fed 505 gibbs if you wanted.

Bob Devries at Kudu is excellent, but it will probably cost you more than you estimated, big guns attract a premium. I dont think you would get much change out 6k these days. Contact Bob first of course, I don't want to be spreading rumours that aren't true. The other gunsmiths that can do it are Anthony George in the NT and John Clapham in the blue mountains. If you want their contacts let me know. Remember you also have to figure several hundred dollars for dies in this class and cases may be $5-8 a piece so start up costs may be a 1k more than you were expecting.

There are cheaper and easier options for a 50+ cal. Getting a factory CZ550 in 416 Ribgy if you can find one its basically rebarrel to the 500 A-square or 510 wells( both essentially the same .510 calibre wildcat) as the 416 Rigby has the same dimensions as this whole family( 416 rigby/416 weatherby, 450 rigby/460 weatherby, 475 A&M, 500 A-square, 530 woodleigh, 550 magnum). The 500 versions will beat 460 weatherby power by at least 10%, you will be pushing 600 grain bullets to almost 2600fps. They can use the full range of 500 jeffery bullets( another old elephant gun like the 505 gibbs) which woodleigh produces. The 550 magnum is probably the most bang for the buck. Its a .550 barrel on the same gun, its the largest diametre the weatherby magnum case head size can accomodate. This gun will push 700 grain bullets over 2300fps. Anthony George in the NT has reamers and barrels I believe.

If you want to go larger than that , there is the 585 nyati, which is a unique case size , slightly fatter and shorter than the 505 gibbs. Its needs the same actions mentioned above for the 505 Gibbs and similar extensive gunsmithing as well. It will push 750 grain bullets to 2500fps, over 10,000ftlbs energy. After that is the 600 overkill, which is about the largest you can do off a standard magnum boltaction, and it will push 900 grainers to 2400fps. I believe Anthony George has the reamers and barrels for this as well. These are a fair bit of work to do, like the 505 gibbs as they are into that giant oddball case size.

Off bolt actions and onto the Ruger no.1 single shot, it can also accomodate most of the old elephant gun cartridges too. The 577 nitro is considered the limit, it is not large enough for conversion to 600 cals.

Above that you are into customising 50BMG actions or building custom single shots, for which you can go all the way to 700 nitro, though price will be really climbing as well, 10k level.

My bods too screwed for the big stuff these days. If I was going to get into the big stuff and just wanted extreme, convenient, relatively low cost power I wouldnt go for the 505 gibbs as its more work to do. Id get one of the weatherby case head wildcats like the 500 A-square. Easier gunsmithing job, pretty much a re-barrel, keep the old stock, maybe add a pound of two of epoxied lead shot into it, there are more bullet choices in 510, you can use light jacketed blackpowder bullets for blowing up light game, true elephant gun bullets, and some blokes even single load 50BMG pointed bullets in them too. The only inconvenience is you may need to neck up and fireform brass using 460 weatherby magnum cases, unless someone is bringing them in standard.

You'd get the 505 gibbs more if you wanted the historical angle, since its one of the oldies of the safari era, or if you wanted to chase more power, since its cases are about 30 grains higher capacity than the weatherby wildcats. Personally I don't think you'd ever use the power, unless you are building a 16lb rifle any loads near 2600fps with a 600 grain are going to be graphic recoil with either case. As the gibbs has factory brass and there still may be some rifles in it kicking around that might be an advantage as well.

Personally if I was going to the trouble of getting the Gibbs, for the same cost I would probably jump right to a 585 Nyati on a cz550, or actually a 577 nitro on the ruger single shot.

So rehashing some options
1. Cheapest and easiest. 375H&H case head. about 90-100 grains capacity. 375, 416 taylor, 458 win, 416 rem, 458 lott, 470 capstick etc. usually just a rebarrel of each other, dirt cheap brass, tons of actions.
2. 404 jeffery or its wildcats. This includes the remington ultramags which are based off the 404 jeffery. These will usually have a bit more capacity than the 375 case head wildcats.
3. Weatherby Magnum or Rigby case head size(basically the same). 130-150 grains, signficant jump in power, still reasonably economical re-barrels if you can find a CZ550 rigby donor or if weatherby still does 30-378 or 338-378 wby's on MkV actions(they used to sell these for just a couple k, you could rebarrel to 500 a-square, though adding weight to the stocks would be needed). Calibres all the way up to 550 as mentioned. Most things firing a 338 lapua should also handle these case sizes as its based off the 416rigby too.
4. 505 gibbs size case head, including the 408 chey tac and its wildcats. usually 150-175 grains capacity. The largest magnum actions, also special long range actions designed for the 408.
5. The ultra-large bores, 577,585, 600 etc. , anywhere from 180-220 grains capacity cases. The largest magnum actions.
6. 50BMG sized projects. 12 ga from hell, 700 nitro, 577/700., 220 grain+ capacity cases.
Last edited by mickb on 29 Jul 2019, 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by Bill » 29 Jul 2019, 7:54 pm

mickb my action was originally a H&H its not a wildcat based on the 375. The 460 Weatherby necked up to 51 cal creates the 500 A Square.

Probably the easiest 500 to build on the CZ550 magnum action.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 29 Jul 2019, 8:13 pm

Bill wrote:mickb my action was originally a H&H its not a wildcat based on the 375. The 460 Weatherby necked up to 51 cal creates the 500 A Square.

Probably the easiest 500 to build on the CZ550 magnum action.


Ok gotcha Bill, you meant A-square on a H&H rifle, not the H&H case. :thumbsup: When you posted H&H I knew the case head was too small for 500 but I didn't want to call you out. Luckily, as I misunderstood you. :)

Yes the weatherby mag cases are the economical power choices, easy conversions, lots of good brass.

For the record the 505 will run over 100fps faster than the A-square full tilt , with good brass. Not that anyone usually runs them that hard.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by cracker » 29 Jul 2019, 8:56 pm

great replies really enjoyed reading that.
going down the .505 path just struggling to get a hold of .t .s. engineering in qld for a barrel, found a rifle.
brass has been ordered and dies. shell plate ie here on the 6th of august... bit by bit... main problem is just the bloody barrel !
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by Bill » 29 Jul 2019, 9:52 pm

yeah mickb gun was bought and sent straight to the CZ custom shop in the US, mag box gives the 375 H&H origins away and the lightish 10.25lbs weight even thou it has mercury reducers and barrel lug.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 29 Jul 2019, 10:02 pm

Nice mate, the 505 was always huge prestige because of the classic status, its size exclusivity aka it was difficult to just plug into regular actions, and stoked hot the 108 year old gent can outrun almost any other elephant gun, including modern ones. Estimates over 2800fps with the 525grain( god protect your shoulder though :) ) Other barrel options when I was into the big stuff was Tobler in NSW( my 585 barrel was Tobler) and Sprinter in SA used to be able to do all the way up to 600 nitro. This is 20 year old info though. Any of the dealers should be able to pull you in Krieger, Pac-nor etc worst case.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 29 Jul 2019, 10:13 pm

Bill wrote:yeah mickb gun was bought and sent straight to the CZ custom shop in the US, mag box gives the 375 H&H origins away and the lightish 10.25lbs weight even thou it has mercury reducers and barrel lug.


Ok nice. Yes second recoil lug needed at this level. Does yours have the crossbolts in the stock? I remember when the CZ550's first hit the shelves in the late 90's it was like christmas, 416 ribgy's for only $1070, perfect donors for every project. The issue was the stocks were cracking even from the original calibres. You had to figure in a new stock at purchase basically. Not sure when they changed it but I got another one in 2012 and it had much better stock with crossbolts standard.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by Bill » 30 Jul 2019, 6:38 am

Yeah mate 2 cross bolts installed by CZ, everything is super slick as you'd expect by the custom shop.

Duck butter couldn't get this action any smoother
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by cracker » 30 Jul 2019, 9:49 pm

mickb wrote:Nice mate, the 505 was always huge prestige because of the classic status, its size exclusivity aka it was difficult to just plug into regular actions, and stoked hot the 108 year old gent can outrun almost any other elephant gun, including modern ones. Estimates over 2800fps with the 525grain( god protect your shoulder though :) ) Other barrel options when I was into the big stuff was Tobler in NSW( my 585 barrel was Tobler) and Sprinter in SA used to be able to do all the way up to 600 nitro. This is 20 year old info though. Any of the dealers should be able to pull you in Krieger, Pac-nor etc worst case.


yeah really enjoy the classic nature and the stories/history attached too it, like the 458 lott.
ill trying chasing down both those names tomorrow, .510 is about.. but kinda wrecks the idea abit.

cases rocked up today, yet to hear on the dies from brownells, see how brave it get loading it wise, the 458 lott has a pretty decent punch with 81grains of ar2208 and a 500 grain solid, if its too much ill look into a brake/mercury recoil reducer.

thanks once again.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 31 Jul 2019, 1:09 am

cracker wrote:
yeah really enjoy the classic nature and the stories/history attached too it, like the 458 lott.
ill trying chasing down both those names tomorrow, .510 is about.. but kinda wrecks the idea abit.



The 458 lott is young enough to be its granson, it was the born in the 1970's and also designed by an American. Comparing it to the Gibbs for class could get you into trouble on a safari forum, start a riot even. :D Jokes, its a great cartridge as well. Actually its one of the few cartridges that attained classic status despite being a generation after the real safari heyday had closed...

keep us informed!
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by duncan61 » 31 Jul 2019, 1:09 am

458 Lott is an interesting chamber that works.Shortening the 375 H@H to fit 30/06 size magazines made the 458 Win Mag a bit underpowered
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by cracker » 31 Jul 2019, 5:10 pm

duncan61 wrote:458 Lott is an interesting chamber that works.Shortening the 375 H@H to fit 30/06 size magazines made the 458 Win Mag a bit underpowered

pretty easy job, brought a 458 winmag and had it reamed to 458 lott. cheap fun, works well in the cz550.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by cracker » 31 Jul 2019, 5:12 pm

haha, just like the story about jack lott.. even though its abit tragic.
really struggling to find someone who will make me a bloody barrel !
rang both companies you suggested today, no dice.

ill keep persisting !
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 31 Jul 2019, 8:24 pm

Interesting Crackers, I thought they could do it. Alan Swan in Brisbane would have been another option but I see off his site he doesn't list .505
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by cracker » 31 Jul 2019, 9:49 pm

mickb wrote:Interesting Crackers, I thought they could do it. Alan Swan in Brisbane would have been another option but I see off his site he doesn't list .505

yeah i spoke to him seemed like a really nice guy, good turn around time too, but only does .510
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 01 Aug 2019, 12:12 am

Buggar, another option again is getting someone to import. T-bone Shipwrighting has a line to Kreiger and I think his lead time is only a couple of months.

By the way later if you need help on loads or performance etc visit the 'big bores' forum on http://www.accuratereloading.com . It has the largest safari gun crowd there- relaxed blokes, quite a few pro hunters, wildcat designers and a heap of 505 owners.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 01 Aug 2019, 12:32 am

duncan61 wrote:458 Lott is an interesting chamber that works.Shortening the 375 H@H to fit 30/06 size magazines made the 458 Win Mag a bit underpowered


Interestingly Jack lott was going off older concepts here as well. The 450 Ackley, 450 mashburn and 450 Watts were full 375H&H wildcats done a lot earlier. They all had small shoulders though and I believe one of his marketing angles was being cylindrical the Lott could feed 458 win mag as well.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by duncan61 » 01 Aug 2019, 1:23 am

From what I have read Winchester shortened the 375 H@H case to fit 30/06 length magazines and called it 458 Win Mag It failed Jack lott on a cape buffalo that wounded him so he used the full size 375 H@H case and got the extra 200 fps to get the heavy bullets closer to 2200 fps which made them more reliable on big game
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 01 Aug 2019, 8:32 am

duncan61 wrote:From what I have read Winchester shortened the 375 H@H case to fit 30/06 length magazines and called it 458 Win Mag It failed Jack lott on a cape buffalo that wounded him so he used the full size 375 H@H case and got the extra 200 fps to get the heavy bullets closer to 2200 fps which made them more reliable on big game


Probably true but wildcatters had been necking up 375H&H to 458 for that reason already since ww2. Lott knew of all the other cartridges, and to his credit he got his version across the line as a standard chambering in the late 80's.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 01 Aug 2019, 8:34 am

Crackers btw you are probably on top of this but the other barrel options for import are Phoenix imports for Pac-nor and Graeme Spraggon for Lothar Walther. Single order is expensive, tacking onto their regular orders is the cheapest, but obviously you have to fit in with timeframes
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by cracker » 01 Aug 2019, 5:51 pm

cheers thanks for replies ! got onto tse in qld today hopefully sort something out asap, 12 - 16 week wait.

had a look at a cz550 safari other day at my mates place made in mexico???

my 458lott is made in the czech republic
since when have they been made in mexico ?

brass has rocked up and my dies should in stock in the u.s. end of august
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 01 Aug 2019, 5:58 pm

3-4 months, not bad for an oddball barrel mate. What brass and dies if you dont mind me asking? I used to get Ch4D, RCBS were expensive when I was buying.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by cracker » 01 Aug 2019, 6:27 pm

mickb wrote:3-4 months, not bad for an oddball barrel mate. What brass and dies if you dont mind me asking? I used to get Ch4D, RCBS were expensive when I was buying.


yeah rcbs $199 usd on brownlles website.
brass is bertram.
not sure how the big rcbs dies will fit my lee single stage press? says something about needing a bushing??
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by Bill » 02 Aug 2019, 2:17 pm

CZ550 505 Gibbs just popped up on used guns....
When a guy is digging his own grave, you don’t fight him for the shovel.

Success leaves clues, Fools follow failure !

20 Hornet, 218 Bee, 222 Rem, 256 WM, 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5x55 Scan, 270 Win, 357 Mag, 358 Win, 9.3x62, 500 A Square
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by mickb » 02 Aug 2019, 5:43 pm

Edited mate :oops: :D
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by cracker » 02 Aug 2019, 6:25 pm

mickb wrote:Looks a pretty good deal 4350 as it has at least 700 in extras.these retailed at about 4400 new a few years ago

shhhhhhh ! i know.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by SCJ429 » 02 Aug 2019, 7:33 pm

Bill wrote:CZ550 505 Gibbs just popped up on used guns....


And I has an interesting bit of walnut on it. You could get this project done for $4,000 with dies and brass.
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Re: .505 Gibbs project

Post by Bill » 02 Aug 2019, 8:50 pm

Agreed, timber work is where build costs gets out of control. If it was sub $4k, say $3600 I would have grabbed it
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