Tikka vs Howa 300 win

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Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by TassieTiger » 23 Jul 2019, 1:59 pm

So as many will know - there is a bit of a friendly grudge between howa and tikka and a friend of mine threw a challenge - he wanted a 300win deer rifle in tikka and when I said I was thinking about also getting a 300 - he said I wouldn’t find anything that would shoot better than a tikka.

So, challenge accepted and with some helpful advice from members - I bought a howa 1500 varmint 300.

Now I own a tikka 260 and I know they shoot well. My friends owns Sako and tikkas only.

Last week I fired my first few shots with factory loads - just to pull the trigger and I was surprised at the grouping - about 1 inch for 100m.

Well today, ole mate turned up with his beautiful tikka stainless sports rifle with a couple hand loads - 165gn Nosler, 70.0gns 2209 and at 50m, he shot a 12mm group, last two touching. Game on lol.

Ps - I examined his muzzle after 10 shots, a very, very slight copper residue settle in rifling, probably a minute amount less than the howa.
This is going to be interesting.
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Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by JimTom » 23 Jul 2019, 3:50 pm

Watching with interest. I have my money on the Tikka.
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by Bill » 23 Jul 2019, 4:25 pm

ahhh a good old shoot off, love it.

Could go either way but Id lean towards the howa......
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by Mark » 23 Jul 2019, 4:43 pm

You have a bit of a advantage in the varmit barrel.
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by marksman » 23 Jul 2019, 5:17 pm

his bore should copper way less as the barrel is hand lapped, says a lot of good things about your barrel Tassie :thumbsup:

it will be a good thing to see how they both compare but along the way so will the tweaks and the end result
having done work to both types of rifle I think the howa will come out ahead :drinks: although I do agree the tikkas can shoot
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by SCJ429 » 23 Jul 2019, 7:12 pm

Get yourself some Berger match bullets Tassie and give yourself a bit of an advantage.
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by TassieTiger » 23 Jul 2019, 7:22 pm

It’s interesting - we both are settling on our final scope inside 1 week and then we have some load development ahead. He has already maxed his length according to magazine and as MM has said before, that’s a handicap for tikka. But, the tikka owner has a lot more experience and I’m not to big to concede the better trigger man - however, Holly (howa) is a big girl, has already shot well with factory and a 9x3...Mr Tikka utilised a Leo mark 4 4-14 at 50m to get his start up group...I’m thinking of a 4.5-32x50 if I can get one at the right price...
Mr Tikka is also limiting himself to 150-165gn projectiles whilst I’m happy to go to 200 if it helps me...in fact, if it breaks my shoulder, but outshoots him by .1mm - the surgery will be worth it lol.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
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Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by bigfellascott » 23 Jul 2019, 8:39 pm

Get some springs for the trigger Tassie, that will make a big difference, what stock is on it?
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by Bill » 23 Jul 2019, 8:44 pm

yeap definitely jump on the aftermarket trigger from gun bloke, I run the 2lb and 1.5lb in my 2 how mini's and love em. Go the 1.5 !!

https://www.ebay.com/str/gunblokeaus/Ho ... 1717148017
When a guy is digging his own grave, you don’t fight him for the shovel.

Success leaves clues, Fools follow failure !

20 Hornet, 218 Bee, 222 Rem, 256 WM, 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5x55 Scan, 270 Win, 357 Mag, 358 Win, 9.3x62, 500 A Square
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by solarpak » 23 Jul 2019, 9:01 pm

Tassie,
Deer rifles - lets talk hunting projectiles as such and a testing range of 100, 200 and 300metres?
Your friend shot a 12mm group at 50m from what you said?

Both fine rifles indeed but your varmint rig and hand-loads should work very well......

A good mate who is now over in the eastern states loves the 300 Win Mag.....and will only settle for hand-loads that produce clover-leafed groups out to 200. and beyond!! He is a perfectionist but get the results ........and is a good shot to boot.

Yes the good old 300Winne - kills at both ends as they say - but in a rifle with a bit of weight behind it is a sweet shooting and hunting calibre.
CK
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by SCJ429 » 23 Jul 2019, 9:46 pm

Best way to get an edge up on your mate is to use better bullets and more magnification. Beg borrow or steal something with at least 30x magnification and you will have an advantage.
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by TassieTiger » 24 Jul 2019, 1:12 am

I Just secured a Bushnell 6500 4.5-32 x 50 so yes SC, I’ve begged and borrowed to get that slight upper hand...but ole mate has just told me he has now settled on a Leo 6.5-20 - a step up from his x 14 used today. omg..we are like kids lol...

Ps - the only reason the tikka shot at 50m was to get on paper. 1st x 3 bullets shot 6 inches. Second 3 shot an inch and scope was dialled in. He then shot his 12mm x 3 group...started giggling like a girl and handed me the rifle.
I have to hand it to tikka, silky bolt, smooth trigger and even I shot a 20mm x 3 group straight up...
Ps - I actually really, really like the trigger on the howa for the very few shots I’ve had out of her. Breaks clean and quite light - at least the equal of my tikka 260 that has lightened springs - not quite at the set trigger level on the steyr...but all the same, it’s far from bad.

I think from the off - recoil is going to be a big factor for the tikka...it is a bloody light rifle - he is countering that by using lighter projectiles and looking to a slower powder but it’s still not going to absorb recoil like holly.
The real question will be - IF we both settle on the same weight projectiles - will Holly the howa, out shoot the Tikka...which is more than double the price? Despite my opponents superior ability, I’m so looking forward to this...lol.

I have the following .30’s available or on the way.
125gn Speer, 150 SSTs, 165 Nosler Bt’s, 168 zmax, 180 Speer boat tail hollow and some 200gn ELDX. I should be able to get some of those working without going to silly $1 per projectile lengths...we both have a budget in mind to stick with.

Other thing I was thinking of - I can use a brake if I want to...but I’m going to fireform some of the cases MM sent me, on this coming weekend, if my bloody lee priming shell holder turns up for the second week waiting grrr....
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 24 Jul 2019, 7:34 am

Unless you are shooting 300/500m plus heavier projectiles shouldn't be better than lighter ones... intact lighter projectiles will give less recoil.

But more importantly better quality/ uniform match projectiles will shoot better. Good luck with your experiment.... may the holly win
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by SCJ429 » 24 Jul 2019, 7:52 am

For short range accuracy you will be best served by a flat based lighter bullet that you don't spin too fast.
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by SCJ429 » 24 Jul 2019, 8:06 am

Of the bullets you have I would look at the Speer TNT or the Nosler BT. The SST would be last on my list. The SST work well on game but are very difficult to tune for accuracy.
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by marksman » 24 Jul 2019, 9:17 am

here's a utube guy who has done a series on some tweaks that will work for a howa, not 100% the way I would do it but it is what works for a howa
IMO worth a watch :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTdb_-d ... oMQKpGdK1O

the main things that I would be worrying about is trigger, bolt lugs and bedding, I would be using devcon steel epoxy for bedding
I do like the hs precision stock on his rifle :drinks:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by marksman » 24 Jul 2019, 9:17 am

here's a utube guy who has done a series on some tweaks that will work for a howa, not 100% the way I would do it but it is what works for a howa
IMO worth a watch :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTdb_-d ... oMQKpGdK1O

the main things that I would be worrying about is trigger, bolt lugs and bedding, I would be using devcon steel epoxy for bedding
I do like the hs precision stock on his rifle :drinks:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by flutch » 24 Jul 2019, 11:33 am

bigfellascott wrote:Get some springs for the trigger Tassie, that will make a big difference, what stock is on it?



OR better yet just plain remove the 1st stage spring from the hact and polish all the parts, will have 0 creep and break when you think about firing instead of half an hour after squeezing the trigger hehehe
Guns:
Rossi S/S 410
Lanber U/O 12 gauge
Adler B220PG 12 gauge
Ruger 22lr
Remington 270 win
Howa 223
Weatherby 300 Winmag

Bows:
G5 Quest Drive
G5 Prime Defy
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by flutch » 24 Jul 2019, 11:38 am

SCJ429 wrote:Of the bullets you have I would look at the Speer TNT or the Nosler BT. The SST would be last on my list. The SST work well on game but are very difficult to tune for accuracy.



Tell that to the two fox cubs I splattered at 400m with my .270 last year. SST ftw

all aside tho secant ogive is ok for med ranges, but doesnt like approaching the transonic.
Guns:
Rossi S/S 410
Lanber U/O 12 gauge
Adler B220PG 12 gauge
Ruger 22lr
Remington 270 win
Howa 223
Weatherby 300 Winmag

Bows:
G5 Quest Drive
G5 Prime Defy
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by TassieTiger » 24 Jul 2019, 1:04 pm

Oh dear - Flutch is BACK?!?!
Your half the reason for this argument RE tikka / Howa lol.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by flutch » 24 Jul 2019, 1:07 pm

haha damn straight, and only half?? cmon man... give me more credit than that hahaha
Guns:
Rossi S/S 410
Lanber U/O 12 gauge
Adler B220PG 12 gauge
Ruger 22lr
Remington 270 win
Howa 223
Weatherby 300 Winmag

Bows:
G5 Quest Drive
G5 Prime Defy
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 24 Jul 2019, 5:14 pm

50.000001% then

So removing the first stage trigger... is that the bigger one.... does it make it similar to a tikka/sako set trigger?
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by flutch » 24 Jul 2019, 5:24 pm

dont remember off top of my head, but pretty sure its the smaller spring behind the adjuster, that way when it is cocked it is firm in a position with 0 creep and breaks like glass. I may have also swapped the springs so put the weaker one in the remaining position, polished the sear and so on and bam, smooth as silk and sharper than 1nm thick glass
Guns:
Rossi S/S 410
Lanber U/O 12 gauge
Adler B220PG 12 gauge
Ruger 22lr
Remington 270 win
Howa 223
Weatherby 300 Winmag

Bows:
G5 Quest Drive
G5 Prime Defy
flutch
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by SCJ429 » 24 Jul 2019, 8:44 pm

flutch wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:Of the bullets you have I would look at the Speer TNT or the Nosler BT. The SST would be last on my list. The SST work well on game but are very difficult to tune for accuracy.



Tell that to the two fox cubs I splattered at 400m with my .270 last year. SST ftw

all aside tho secant ogive is ok for med ranges, but doesnt like approaching the transonic.


Would you recommend the SST over the Noslers and Speer for an accuracy test at 100 meters?

The secant ogive gives you a benefit at longer ranges due to its better BC. Most short range match projectiles have a tangent ogive and are far less sensitive to seating depth. They are much easier to tune as they alight themselves better as they enter the rifling.

No sure what bullet fares best when going through the transonic period, the approach to transonic is not the problem. Only as the shockwave catches the bullet does it get knocked around. Supersonic the shockwave is behind the bullet. Subsonic the shockwave is in front of the bullet. The transition from one to the other is the problem.
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by flutch » 24 Jul 2019, 8:53 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
flutch wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:Of the bullets you have I would look at the Speer TNT or the Nosler BT. The SST would be last on my list. The SST work well on game but are very difficult to tune for accuracy.



Tell that to the two fox cubs I splattered at 400m with my .270 last year. SST ftw

all aside tho secant ogive is ok for med ranges, but doesnt like approaching the transonic.


Would you recommend the SST over the Noslers and Speer for an accuracy test at 100 meters?

The secant ogive gives you a benefit at longer ranges due to its better BC. Most short range match projectiles have a tangent ogive and are far less sensitive to seating depth. They are much easier to tune as they alight themselves better as they enter the rifling.

No sure what bullet fares best when going through the transonic period, the approach to transonic is not the problem. Only as the shockwave catches the bullet does it get knocked around. Supersonic the shockwave is behind the bullet. Subsonic the shockwave is in front of the bullet. The transition from one to the other is the problem.



I wouldnt suggest them for any competition shooting, but as a hunting round I find them as accurate as you can ask any round to be for those conditions. and yeah the sst in particular apparently have issues with transonic apparently due to becoming nose heavy apparently allowing the ass end to pitch out. so im told.
Guns:
Rossi S/S 410
Lanber U/O 12 gauge
Adler B220PG 12 gauge
Ruger 22lr
Remington 270 win
Howa 223
Weatherby 300 Winmag

Bows:
G5 Quest Drive
G5 Prime Defy
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by SCJ429 » 24 Jul 2019, 9:17 pm

Tassie is looking for a bullet that will be as accurate as he can get for a friendly bit of competition with his mate at 100 metresYou might be surprised how well the budget priced Speer TNT will perform and how easy it is to tune. Neither the Speer or the Nosler BT are target projectiles but both are far easier to load that the SST which is natoriously finicky.
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 25 Jul 2019, 7:23 am

Ebay about the good old Sierra match kings
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by TassieTiger » 25 Jul 2019, 8:25 am

Z - I’ve noticed a few of your posts lately have been umm...a bit weird and then further noticed you’ve got “blame it on auto correct” at the bottom of your dig, I mean tig, I mean gig, I mean farken Sig! - is this some kind of truism or accidental lol. eBay for Sierra?
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by duncan61 » 25 Jul 2019, 8:39 am

GDB sent me some Hornady 162 ELD and Berger 168 VLD and they look like very well made bullets.Yet to try them but soon.I still have some 168 SMK so I can compare
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
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Re: Tikka vs Howa 300 win

Post by Member-Deleted » 25 Jul 2019, 9:12 am

Yes that's correct I found the 168 VLD Berger had a slight edge in my rifle splitting 5 holes @100yds the 162 ELD Hornady I couldn't get any closer than 2-4mm apart @100yds but I presume most rifles shoot different it will be interesting to see what Duncan can get out of them
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