New Rifle...just my luck...!!

[Stix]

Mate - I’ve just been through small claims with HN and I learned a LOT about aust consumer law.

Some devils advocate questions to consider.
Is any of the damage - attributable to post / transit? Is there insurance on the rifle re transit?

You are NOT responsible for return post under ACL - they are.

I would NOT fire the rifle if you intend to dispute anything - it’s a pain but pull the trigger on a couple and it’s now used and “you’ve caused any damage”.

What do you want from a dispute?
Would a partial refund resolve the dispute? An offer of a fix?
A replacement? A refund ? These are the options available to the seller - not necessarily to you, so you need to decide your preference and push for that but seller can say here’s a postal return slip, here’s your refund - now bugger off...and that’s that.

I’d the shop give you the run around - do not be scared to lodge a claim with the courts. It’s bloody easy and doesn’t cost very much at all - and it tells them your not farking around.

Mate...i want the rifle...just not "this" rifle in what can rightfully be classed as "used cond"...
As i said, if they give me a refund it will cost me more as the price has gone up now...thats not fair...!! (Waaah )

[Stix]

old bloke and taz have given you some good advice to mull over stix, i can't add anything better except to say i reckon it's a demo that's been in and out of a gun rack and handled by customers . and i reckon your right that they took advantage of you being a interstate customer . i've bought a few older second hand guns online and mostly they've been as described . unless it's something i really desire , i try to buy the gun that i've had in my hands rather than something brought in . my sympathies stix , i hope things work out for you . you can't directly name gunshops or smiths on the forum for bad behaviour , but if you can give us a clue i think a lot of us won't be doing business with the particular shop that's done this to you .

Thanks for your empathy Richo...
Ill hold off on the clues for now...just gotta shoot out to grab some stuff for dinner...Later on ill see if i can crop out some pics of the bolt for you guys to see what you think...

[TassieTiger]

This situation sucks - but it seems to be coming more common and it pisses me off. If you do nothing, it tells them it’s fine to Fark ppl over, if you confront them, as you say - you get a refund, your out of a rifle and I bet they onsell it regardless hoping the next person does nothing...

If you do end up confronting the shop via email or written correspondence - start off being positive, mistakes happen, it’s unfortunate but you were rightfully expecting a pristine example - don’t be afraid to advise them that you’ve posted up queries on a well known aust gun forum with xxxx members, as to the validity of your concerns, and that you’d like to be able to post up details or a fair and equitable outcome to showcase their excellent customer service...

They might blow you away - they might actually say, s**t, we screwed up, we will sort it to what ever you want, etc - it does happen....

[Member-Deleted]

Yeah Stix Tassie is right get in touch with the GS and see what they have to say for themselves then explain your thoughts to them if they get uptight then proceed and tell them you have photographed the rifle and are willing to do whatever it takes to get what you paid for and the thing about the price going to be the new one if you take action is not correct by the GS sending you the rifle sets in place they agreed on that price and you are entitled to a new unused rifle at that cost they have to replace it at that cost not the new price if in any chance you decided you didn't want that specific caliber than you would be required to pay the new price but not on a warranty claim for that existing rifle they've sent you whatever you do don't loose it and get them off side to start with and if all fails which I doubt will then you have some good info on this post thread to go to the next step and you have the photos as proof

[mickb]

There there snookums.
If you're so upset take it back and jam it up their bum. That's what I did over a $650 gun that didn't work properly. I certainly didn't ask for people's opinions....

I'll give you a free opinion anyway, learn to read the whole post Pete.

[TassieTiger]

Hhmmm...
The fact ive ive dropped a few grand on something to find its rusty & dinged up & being fukd over by a dealer i obviously dont find as funny as you bigpete...

Go fuk yourself...!!!!

There there snookums.
If you're so upset take it back and jam it up their bum. That's what I did over a $650 gun that didn't work properly. I certainly didn't ask for people's opinions....

Yet your more than happy to ask for peoples opinions on lesser issues

[bigpete]

Lol,geez you guys are touchy.
Stix has already worked out I was fishing. Looks like I caught a few too

[bigrich]

ya did better with fishing than me pete. i put up a comment on the "vehicle parked in state forest" post about their must be gay shooters cause whose buying all the tacticool muzzle braked rifles in 308 and 6.5 man-bun (read the conversation in full please. it's cause of BFS and his gay pride rainbow stickers ) i didn't get one bite pete

[Stix]

So i got no luck getting better pics down the bore...but here's a couple of the lugs & bolt face...

This makes it clear what sort of rifle it is, but it'd be good if we dont have to say it here...

So curious if people can tell if its been fired much ir not from these--(im guessing not--well i cant tell) but its clear its been racked & cocked a good few times...& clearly no effort been made to clean it up before sending off...

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[TassieTiger]

Lol,geez you guys are touchy.
Stix has already worked out I was fishing. Looks like I caught a few too

Arrrgghhh - I have a head injury...that’s my excuse ya fargin smokecock lol. Nice work.

[TassieTiger]

So i got no luck getting better pics down the bore...but here's a couple of the lugs & bolt face...

This makes it clear what sort of rifle it is, but it'd be good if we dont have to say it here...

So curious if people can tell if its been fired much ir not from these--(im guessing not--well i cant tell) but its clear its been racked & cocked a good few times...& clearly no effort been made to clean it up before sending off...

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Oh, it’s one of those rifles...lol. Still none the wiser here lol.
That black stuff on face - that looks like powder burn or carbon but you’d think there’d be additional marks if it were actually fired - but where has that come from? ....regardless, yeah - it’s easy to see that it’s far from brand new.

[Oldbloke]

My guess is had a few through it. May be a box. Not 1 or 2

PS, include those pics in the email if you decide to complain

[cracker]

ill be the bad guy.

its doesnt look that bad honestly?
theres not alot wrong...? if anything...perhaps a drop mark maybe... im not sure what you paid or what it is.... but man rust... thats not rust it, would wipe off and that dint on the top... meh i doubt it would do much
.
not trying to be an ass just trying to put another perspective in, i dont disagree with you, some times it worth cooling off and just relaxing.

[Stix]

ill be the bad guy.

its doesnt look that bad honestly?
theres not alot wrong...? if anything...perhaps a drop mark maybe... im not sure what you paid or what it is.... but man rust... thats not rust it, would wipe off and that dint on the top... meh i doubt it would do much
.
not trying to be an ass just trying to put another perspective in, i dont disagree with you, some times it worth cooling off and just relaxing.

I see your point...i do...& im cooled... .but if i advertised this as new on the net & you bought it, how would you feel...?

My view is its a brand that holds its value...i got it because i (obviously) want it, but also as if kept in mint cond (as i keep my other one), i will get my money back, (&maybe plus some) in time if i need to...

But now im guessing ive started a good few hundred behind...

If i knew it were in this cond i wouldnt have bought it because its not new...

I get your point...but its just wrong that dealers pull this crap--i shouldnt have to pay for their apethy & disrespect...nor should I (any of us) allow them to fuk us over...

[Bills Shed]

What’s the go with the galling on the bolt face. Pretty poor tool marks. I know modern cameras show up imperfections very clearly even if very small. You see galling like that on locking lugs, not bolt faces.
I feel your pain and I hate it when I buy a new rifle and there is something wrong with it. My last one was a 22 H where the trigger would not reset after firing. It was just a burr and easily fixed but still should not have left the factory as it was.
Sending it back is a hassle that you do not need and the dealers hope we just give up.

Bill

[Stix]

Lol,geez you guys are touchy.
Stix has already worked out I was fishing. Looks like I caught a few too

Arrrgghhh - I have a head injury...that’s my excuse ya fargin smokecock lol. Nice work.

I havnt worked much out other than he likes to dress in old lady's flower print frocks...
Thats a diff kind of drag than fishing...

[Stix]

Yes Bill...the bolt face doesnt look great...& thats not the worst pic.

I do appreciate the pics are close up & show more than a quick glance in real life does...

But the dealer here unpacked it infront of me & handed it over...
He saw, as i did, these imperfections from his side without handling it...didnt want to say much, but when askes, admitted its not good & something is a miss...

[JSS]

Stix that thing's had a rougher time than a two dollar hooker. As others have said i'd be sending them an email with your complaints supported by photos and see where they go from there. My guess is once they realise you're not going to cop it they will comply pretty quickly. I'd also be requesting detailed photos from them of the replacement rifle before they post it.
Oh and whatever you do don't shoot the one you've got, it will give them the perfect excuse to blame you for the damage/wear.

Goodluck!!

[Oldbloke]

If i buy a demonstration car they knock a few k off. Looking like Stix got a demo without the discount. Or someone in the shop had some fun at the range with it.

PS. I only buy cheap stuff off the net for this very reason. Almost got caught with a not so cheap mobile. Never again.

[bigfellascott]

Stainless steel, more likely copper from firing, perhaps in factory?

If your not happy sent pics in an email (be factual) .

Tassie gave pretty good advice. And, yes they pay the postage. Contact vic consumer affairs.

TBO If it was a $600 riflle i wouldnt bother but if it was expensive have a crack.

Far too many companies our there consider customers just another sheep to shear.

Yep it looks like copper fouling to me too.

[cracker]

ill be the bad guy.

its doesnt look that bad honestly?
theres not alot wrong...? if anything...perhaps a drop mark maybe... im not sure what you paid or what it is.... but man rust... thats not rust it, would wipe off and that dint on the top... meh i doubt it would do much
.
not trying to be an ass just trying to put another perspective in, i dont disagree with you, some times it worth cooling off and just relaxing.

I see your point...i do...& im cooled... .but if i advertised this as new on the net & you bought it, how would you feel...?

My view is its a brand that holds its value...i got it because i (obviously) want it, but also as if kept in mint cond (as i keep my other one), i will get my money back, (&maybe plus some) in time if i need to...

But now im guessing ive started a good few hundred behind...

If i knew it were in this cond i wouldnt have bought it because its not new...

I get your point...but its just wrong that dealers pull this crap--i shouldnt have to pay for their apethy & disrespect...nor should I (any of us) allow them to fuk us over...

i get where your coming from, its hard when its shipped.
in the past iv gone in too collect a "new" rifle, and when they have opened the box the stock had marks on it and looked "rough" been knocked about abit.
my response was, thats not my rifle, this one has marks on it and has been damaged, i purchased a new rifle, thanks.

hopefully it works out for you.

[solarpak]

Stix,
feel for you mate.......a NEW rifle should mean that - NEW IN BOX.
I have been burnt on many occasions buying second hand /demo rifles marked as VGC or better ........when they were completely shot to bits.

One demo i bought of a well known make had a barrel bulge half way down the tube - someone must have left a cleaning patch in the bore and fired a shot through. Alerted the dealer and sent him pics of the bore...........got a full refund......(mind you i discovered this a few days after taking delivery when cleaning the gun prior to mounting my scope - i had not shot the rifle as yet!)

That incident was the last straw - i will only buy new from a local dealer and ALWAYS inspect the gun prior to taking it away - and always put a clean patch down the bore - to check for and bulges ......

You cant trust anyone - yes honest mistakes do happen ......but best to go by the saying "CAVEAT EMPTOR- BUYER BEWARE' - when it comes to firearms.
C.

[gordicans]

Stix you should fight this one. It's shonky as hell and you shouldn't let them get away with it. I'd go for a replacement brand new one at the same price you paid for the ''used" one. Way to do it is send them photos showing that the rifle is not new, and ask them what they'll do to rectify the situation and see what they come up with. I'd bore (no pun intended) it right up these pricks.

[Kadmium]

Hey mate. Long time lurker, first time poster. Read your post and it got my blood pressure up. So I made an account to give you my unsolicited advice

As far as consumer protection goes, you are covered under Australian Consumer Law. While I agree the best option is to be polite, the easiest way to deal with it is to politely let them know what has happened, let them know what you expect in return, and give them the opportunity to fix the issue.

However, it still helps to know what you are entitled to.

Under ACL there are two situations where you are entitled to remedy. The first is for a 'major problem' and the second is a 'minor problem'. In my opinion (THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE) your situation falls into the major category in two ways:

1. If a reasonable consumer had known about the problem, they would never have bought the product

And

2. The product is significantly different from a sample, description or demonstration model.

This is because, if I bought a firearm that was a) of a reputable brand and b ) stainless steel, it would be reasonable to expect the firearm is free from rust. This is exacerbated by the fact you waited several months for a 'new' one to be shipped.

Second, if the item is described as brand new, it is reasonable to assume it is free from dents, scratches and rust. There should be no (or minimal) galling to the bolt face. As such, it was described as new and is clearly not.

Because the dispute falls into the 'major' category, the _consumer_ may:

- reject it and choose a refund or replacement, or

- keep it and the seller will compensate them for any drop in value

So you can choose to have the item replaced. You don't have to accept a refund. If the issue is a minor problem, the seller may then elect the remedy.

On a final note, because the ACL is federal law, all states and territories are bound. This is coupled with interstate agreements on bringing proceedings against companies or people. This means if you get no luck with them, start a dispute with Victorian Civil Administration Tribunal (VCAT) who will make a binding decision. It's really easy and costs two tenths of bugger all.

I only know this because I was given dodgy fuel which farked my car and I had to take a big brand company to VCAT to get them to pay to fix it. And they were based in another state.

[gordicans]

well done Kadmium for taking the effort. nothing gets my goat up than consumers being taken for fools because the seller assumes that they won't do anything. I'd love to know which gun shop it was. You should take it right up to them Stix. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to get a brand new one from these guys for the same price that you paid

[Tiger650]

I once bought a box of .308 /168gn Berger VLDs from the SA fullbore association shop, turned up having been previously opened and many corrosion marked jackets, betting they were "sorted through" for weight as well. Society is infested with maggots.

[fitchaj]

Obvious chucked your new one on the rack and sent you the used one.

[TassieTiger]

I sense from some of your posts Stix that you have a bit on, but I’d deadset prioritise this issue and get back on to shop ASAP(you may have d already) - but the longer you leave it, the easier it is for them to denounce any issues.

[Bombus1]

Hhmmm...
The fact ive ive dropped a few grand on something to find its rusty & dinged up & being fukd over by a dealer i obviously dont find as funny as you bigpete...

Go fuk yourself...!!!!

There there snookums.
If you're so upset take it back and jam it up their bum. That's what I did over a $650 gun that didn't work properly. I certainly didn't ask for people's opinions....

Ease up mate. What's wrong with having a vent (well warranted by the sounds of it) and asking for opinions/help from other people who may have had the same experience?

[Stix]

So...this is well overdue for an update...

After a little to & fro, i finally got on to the importer of this rifle & dealt direct with them.

When all is said & done, i couldnt believe the attitudes from the relevant dealers--both the one i purchased it from interstate, & my local one who forgot to lodge new pta & then lost it once approved...

Anyway--all turned out good.

I got to deal direct with the national sales manager who swapped the rifle with a new one, no questions asked.

I was privelliged enough to have a little bo-peep down the bore with Grumpy308's hawkeye...thanks Grumpy... ...
And it looked to be a good barrel.

I gave it a polish as instructed by Grumpy & marksman (& maybe others--thanks for the advice fellas... ) & eventually got to shoot it.

It really seems to like 32gr Varmageddon bullets.. ....but so far cant say the same for 40 grainers--a real bummer as i want to shoot 300 plus with it...

This is what it printed after i got 20 odd rounds through the pipe & it stopped leaving copper...
This was actually shot in a bit of wind too, so i was pretty happy...!!

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It has done this a couple of times too... ...infact its worst with 32's is prob half inch, so if that keeps up ill be pretty happy...

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Here is some results with Speer 39 HP's...

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The 26.6 is by far the best it has printed with 40's...
I need to bite the bullet & try the Sierra 39 GK's...but at higher prices than good 30 cal bullets, i wont burn the barrel out quick if it likes them...

Anyway...
It had its first time out in the field this last week, & unfortunately i discovered yet another faulty bushnell scope--that pic of the single 3 shot group above was taken the morning after scoping it in at 200...so i think im done with these bushnells...ive already had 2 faulty ones replaced & now ive got another 2 faulty ones...ffs...!!...
Along with a faulty $1500 Zeiss, ive gad sh!t luck with scopes the last few years...

Thinkin of packing all my bushnells up & sending them direct to the importer --but thats another topic all together...

But, i did get 2 solid hits on bunny's at the 300 yard mark...a neck shot at 308 yds, & a head shot at 290 once i knew the hold over (couldnt dial due to scope)...only thing is, bloody fox found my 290 head shot before i did...
I should add, these shots taken in perfect conditiobs--not a breath of wind--no way id attempt that in any wind.

So ill finish up there...other than to say, ill happily take onboard any advice on getting 40's to shoot in a Sako 204...