Upgrade to a .204?

[bladeracer]

You would’ve been pretty happy with that 300 yard bunny shot, hey Stix?
This is what I wanna get into on my next trip out to the farm. Set myself up looking over a burrow.

I was lucky enough to have a wonderful spot when I was a kid. I had to walk a few kilometers to get there, but there was a rock cliff with a creek running across the bottom. From the top it looked over several acres of Warren's. I spent many, many hours laying up there picking off rabbits out to about 300yds with my .222Rem. At that distance they ignored me shooting, only reacting to their family members being blown apart next to them. I could take a few before they'd duck into their burrows for a few minutes, then pop out again for some more. After an hour or so I'd walk down and collect them, then have to walk home again with a dozen or more hanging off my webbing.

I was clambering across that cliff face one morning when I noticed a fox following the other side of the creek behind my right shoulder, and probably twenty-feet below me. I hung onto the wall with my right hand while I unslung my M38 Swede, lay it across my right arm, and took the fox left-handed - my only left-handed kill ever.

[bigfellascott]

Shooting deer under the light, I wish we could do that, makes life a lot easier when they just stand there looking at ya waiting to be shot.

[SCJ429]

The OP has a 1:12 twist and that should shoot 50 or 55 grain projectiles extremely well. I am sure that if he bought a 204 he would enjoy the change that this excellent little case brings to the table.

Nice ginger Tom you have there Stix. Did you keep the pelt?

You do need a lot more .224" mass to beat the 40gn .204, but that greater mass also gives you the option of larger targets, greater versatility.

I wouldn't talk anybody out of owning a .204, but not if they're swapping something more useful for it. Get .204 and .223 and enjoy them both.

I totally agree with you Blade, everyone should own a 223, thought the OP was keeping his and wanted to know if the 204 gave him something significantly different to consider owning both. I enjoy the 204 and love its ability to reach out and smack foxes. That said I have fired over 4,000 rounds out of the 223 and when this barrel is done I will rebarreling it in 223 and do it again.

Well done Stix, I am not careful enough to skin anything and include the head. I recently shot a 80kilo goat and after two attempts at breaking the leather it is still stiff as a board. I am going to try again using Neatsfoot oil, this hide might well end up breaking me.

[SCJ429]

Shooting deer under the light, I wish we could do that, makes life a lot easier when they just stand there looking at ya waiting to be shot.

To whom are you referring to?

[bladeracer]

Shooting deer under the light, I wish we could do that, makes life a lot easier when they just stand there looking at ya waiting to be shot.

To whom are you referring to?

I think he's referring to the fallow pair that Stix took?

[bigfellascott]

Shooting deer under the light, I wish we could do that, makes life a lot easier when they just stand there looking at ya waiting to be shot.

To whom are you referring to?

Stix and his 2 bambies he shot.

[SCJ429]

You may be right, however I find that I often shoot things in the twilight and end up butchering them in the dark. If I took a photograph it may appear that I was spotlighting. I would then be offended if someone made the inference. Perhaps I have read the comment incorrectly.

[bigfellascott]

You may be right, however I find that I often shoot things in the twilight and end up butchering them in the dark. If I took a photograph it may appear that I was spotlighting. I would then be offended if someone made the inference. Perhaps I have read the comment incorrectly.

Do you mount your torch on your rifle to butcher your twilight deer too?

[Stix]

Shooting deer under the light, I wish we could do that, makes life a lot easier when they just stand there looking at ya waiting to be shot.

And let me tell ya...they taste just as good as after a long hunt too...!!...

(actually, truth be told, sadly i dont know that--they are the only deer ive ever shot & consumed--i just wish i had regular access to them because the freezer stock is getting low with me indulging in an almost a weekly fetish filling of bacon-wrapped venison with pan made mushroom/pepper sauce drowned feast ... )

[SCJ429]

You may be right, however I find that I often shoot things in the twilight and end up butchering them in the dark. If I took a photograph it may appear that I was spotlighting. I would then be offended if someone made the inference. Perhaps I have read the comment incorrectly.

Do you mount your torch on your rifle to butcher your twilight deer too?

I am sure Constable, that the torch was mounted on the rifle post shooting and only for the purposes of finding his way back to his vehicle.

I like you BFS have never used an unfair advantage to outwit my quarry, no that is not a fox whistle hanging off my webbing.

[bladeracer]

You may be right, however I find that I often shoot things in the twilight and end up butchering them in the dark. If I took a photograph it may appear that I was spotlighting. I would then be offended if someone made the inference. Perhaps I have read the comment incorrectly.

I thought that was the more likely answer myself, but spotlighting has its purpose, not all landowners are able to enjoy hunting them while they damage their livelihood, sometimes they just have to take down as many pests as they can in the hour or two they have to tackle the problem.

While deer have not been seen around this area in the last couple decades, there are some around just a few kilometers south of us. We had a small one wander through the property one morning a few weeks ago, but I think most likely a youngster that somebody brought home that escaped.

I wouldn't be getting offended at whatever other people assume.

[bladeracer]

You may be right, however I find that I often shoot things in the twilight and end up butchering them in the dark. If I took a photograph it may appear that I was spotlighting. I would then be offended if someone made the inference. Perhaps I have read the comment incorrectly.

Do you mount your torch on your rifle to butcher your twilight deer too?

I am sure Constable, that the torch was mounted on the rifle post shooting and only for the purposes of finding his way back to his vehicle.

I like you BFS have never used an unfair advantage to outwit my quarry, no that is not a fox whistle hanging off my webbing.

I don't consider spotlighting to be hunting, but as long as it's legal I don't have a problem with landowners using it to manage their responsibilities to control pests.

[bigfellascott]

You may be right, however I find that I often shoot things in the twilight and end up butchering them in the dark. If I took a photograph it may appear that I was spotlighting. I would then be offended if someone made the inference. Perhaps I have read the comment incorrectly.

Do you mount your torch on your rifle to butcher your twilight deer too?

I am sure Constable, that the torch was mounted on the rifle post shooting and only for the purposes of finding his way back to his vehicle.

I like you BFS have never used an unfair advantage to outwit my quarry, no that is not a fox whistle hanging off my webbing.

I guess spotlighting deer is legal now? using a whistle is, that much I do know.

[Stix]

You may be right, however I find that I often shoot things in the twilight and end up butchering them in the dark. If I took a photograph it may appear that I was spotlighting. I would then be offended if someone made the inference. Perhaps I have read the comment incorrectly.

Do you mount your torch on your rifle to butcher your twilight deer too?

I am sure Constable, that the torch was mounted on the rifle post shooting and only for the purposes of finding his way back to his vehicle.

I like you BFS have never used an unfair advantage to outwit my quarry, no that is not a fox whistle hanging off my webbing.

Lol...
yes i mounted that torch after scj--how the hell did you know...

I was out doing a permit on Skippy's, & they happened to stand up as i went through a gate...rules are, all vermin to be destroyed...
So they both got shot in the brain...& i took them home & butchered them up & tanned the skins...

No point getting offended anyway...if Scott was wrong, id have set him straight...& if he (well...anyone) didnt believe me...who cares...

Anyway...Nothing wrong with opportunistic 'hunting'...i dont waste anything...(well, i keep cats n fox pelts n feed grubs n crows with the rest... ) & keep trimmings, offal (heart lungs liver of bunny's) for another farmers wife's pet cat & bones of what i eat for peoples dogs)...

Ive gotten in the habit of that style of vermin busting, from both loving my chasing foxes under the light, & that the main property i do this on is sssoooo big & bunny spots so far & wide spread, that i can only do half of it in one night...its also 15k's from base camp, so walking is only feasible if im a millionare who doesnt have to work & who can take the time to spend a week roughing it for bunny's n foxes...

Anyway...has xDom boought this 204 yet...

[bigfellascott]

Shooting deer under the light, I wish we could do that, makes life a lot easier when they just stand there looking at ya waiting to be shot.

And let me tell ya...they taste just as good as after a long hunt too...!!...

(actually, truth be told, sadly i dont know that--they are the only deer ive ever shot & consumed--i just wish i had regular access to them because the freezer stock is getting low with me indulging in an almost a weekly fetish filling of bacon-wrapped venison with pan made mushroom/pepper sauce drowned feast ... )

They do indeed taste great, no matter how ya get em (last one I picked up off the road after someone hit it) I turned that one into schnitzels - eat it with a spoon it was that tender.

[Stix]

You would’ve been pretty happy with that 300 yard bunny shot, hey Stix?
This is what I wanna get into on my next trip out to the farm. Set myself up looking over a burrow.

I was lucky enough to have a wonderful spot when I was a kid. I had to walk a few kilometers to get there, but there was a rock cliff with a creek running across the bottom. From the top it looked over several acres of Warren's. I spent many, many hours laying up there picking off rabbits out to about 300yds with my .222Rem. At that distance they ignored me shooting, only reacting to their family members being blown apart next to them. I could take a few before they'd duck into their burrows for a few minutes, then pop out again for some more. After an hour or so I'd walk down and collect them, then have to walk home again with a dozen or more hanging off my webbing.

I was clambering across that cliff face one morning when I noticed a fox following the other side of the creek behind my right shoulder, and probably twenty-feet below me. I hung onto the wall with my right hand while I unslung my M38 Swede, lay it across my right arm, and took the fox left-handed - my only left-handed kill ever.

Good story Blade...
Those one-off's in life often make a great tale...my first ever duck in flight is a fond memory that is similarly etched into my brain...the setting i was in could be used in a movie...(bloody short movie though... ) but one every hunter would relate to...

Remembering somewhat where you spent your childhood, those little Fallow were probably topped somewhere close-(ish) to your lefty kill...

And...thats interesting reading the ballistics of the 204 & 223 you posted...

Reinforces my confidence in the 204 & why im more comfortable picking shots for that, rather than the 222...

Thanks for posting that up...

[bladeracer]

You may be right, however I find that I often shoot things in the twilight and end up butchering them in the dark. If I took a photograph it may appear that I was spotlighting. I would then be offended if someone made the inference. Perhaps I have read the comment incorrectly.

Do you mount your torch on your rifle to butcher your twilight deer too?

I am sure Constable, that the torch was mounted on the rifle post shooting and only for the purposes of finding his way back to his vehicle.

I like you BFS have never used an unfair advantage to outwit my quarry, no that is not a fox whistle hanging off my webbing.

I guess spotlighting deer is legal now? using a whistle is, that much I do know.

You don't have your location in your profile so I don't know if it's legal for you, here in Victoria it's legal for landowners protecting their properties from deer, I think even extending outside their boundaries into some public lands.

[bladeracer]

You may be right, however I find that I often shoot things in the twilight and end up butchering them in the dark. If I took a photograph it may appear that I was spotlighting. I would then be offended if someone made the inference. Perhaps I have read the comment incorrectly.

Do you mount your torch on your rifle to butcher your twilight deer too?

I am sure Constable, that the torch was mounted on the rifle post shooting and only for the purposes of finding his way back to his vehicle.

I like you BFS have never used an unfair advantage to outwit my quarry, no that is not a fox whistle hanging off my webbing.

Lol...
yes i mounted that torch after scj--how the hell did you know...

I was out doing a permit on Skippy's, & they happened to stand up as i went through a gate...rules are, all vermin to be destroyed...
So they both got shot in the brain...& i took them home & butchered them up & tanned the skins...

No point getting offended anyway...if Scott was wrong, id have set him straight...& if he (well...anyone) didnt believe me...who cares...

Anyway...Nothing wrong with opportunistic 'hunting'...i dont waste anything...(well, i keep cats n fox pelts n feed grubs n crows with the rest... ) & keep trimmings, offal (heart lungs liver of bunny's) for another farmers wife's pet cat & bones of what i eat for peoples dogs)...

Ive gotten in the habit of that style of vermin busting, from both loving my chasing foxes under the light, & that the main property i do this on is sssoooo big & bunny spots so far & wide spread, that i can only do half of it in one night...its also 15k's from base camp, so walking is only feasible if im a millionare who doesnt have to work & who can take the time to spend a week roughing it for bunny's n foxes...

Anyway...has xDom boought this 204 yet...

If it's farmland, 15kms is not a trek, if it's native Bush though it might take most of a day.

[bladeracer]

You would’ve been pretty happy with that 300 yard bunny shot, hey Stix?
This is what I wanna get into on my next trip out to the farm. Set myself up looking over a burrow.

I was lucky enough to have a wonderful spot when I was a kid. I had to walk a few kilometers to get there, but there was a rock cliff with a creek running across the bottom. From the top it looked over several acres of Warren's. I spent many, many hours laying up there picking off rabbits out to about 300yds with my .222Rem. At that distance they ignored me shooting, only reacting to their family members being blown apart next to them. I could take a few before they'd duck into their burrows for a few minutes, then pop out again for some more. After an hour or so I'd walk down and collect them, then have to walk home again with a dozen or more hanging off my webbing.

I was clambering across that cliff face one morning when I noticed a fox following the other side of the creek behind my right shoulder, and probably twenty-feet below me. I hung onto the wall with my right hand while I unslung my M38 Swede, lay it across my right arm, and took the fox left-handed - my only left-handed kill ever.

Good story Blade...
Those one-off's in life often make a great tale...my first ever duck in flight is a fond memory that is similarly etched into my brain...the setting i was in could be used in a movie...(bloody short movie though... ) but one every hunter would relate to...

Remembering somewhat where you spent your childhood, those little Fallow were probably topped somewhere close-(ish) to your lefty kill...

And...thats interesting reading the ballistics of the 204 & 223 you posted...

Reinforces my confidence in the 204 & why im more comfortable picking shots for that, rather than the 222...

Thanks for posting that up...

That spot is only maybe twenty clicks or so westsouwest of Murray Bridge, south of but in sight of the highway. The landowner was a nutjob.

[xDom]

“..I don't consider spotlighting to be hunting, ”

Interesting comment, never thought of that. What’s your definition of hunting?

[in2anity]

“..I don't consider spotlighting to be hunting, ”

Interesting comment, never thought of that. What’s your definition of hunting?

Bow and arrow handmade from Aussie sapling, bare foot only, gum leaf loin cloth covering genitals. Anything more is unfair advantage.

[bladeracer]

“..I don't consider spotlighting to be hunting, ”

Interesting comment, never thought of that. What’s your definition of hunting?

Hunting requires "fair chase", dazzling an animal so it simply stands there to be shot is not hunting, just shooting. As I said earlier, I've never taken an animal over a light, I also don't use fox whistles, I hunt foxes in daylight. When I feel a need to thin their numbers more rapidly, I have used roadkill to attract them to a specific place, and I watch them at night using light or IR. I have certainly tried spotlighting, but I've never been able to pull the trigger on a barely-discernable shape. I took a huge white cat under moonlight when I was a kid, I had seen him a few times, worked out his habits, waited for him, and followed him along a creek. He jumped a young rabbit and I took him with the rabbit still in his mouth.

We have spotlighters locally that keep the fox numbers down pretty effectively around here, so there's no need for me to resort to it myself. We're calving just now and expected the foxes to be more of a problem, but although they have certainly been coming through, they haven't been a problem. They drag off the placentas and like to eat the fresh newborn poo due to the milk content - our dog enjoyed that as well, the disgusting little devil

Foxing for me is getting out before dawn, find a spot, and sit and watch for them. When I see them I go after them. I regularly miss out by trying to get much closer than I need to, but that is hunting. I've been hankering to get out with some of the milsurps recently, which will require me to get very close, shotgun ranges reàlly, due to the sights and some of the rifles' accuracy of about 3MoA.

[bladeracer]

“..I don't consider spotlighting to be hunting, ”

Interesting comment, never thought of that. What’s your definition of hunting?

Bow and arrow handmade from Aussie sapling, bare foot only, gum leaf loin cloth covering genitals. Anything more is unfair advantage.

Not quite, but that's a standard response from spotlighters.
Fair chase is not about the technology, it's about taking the animal in it's own habitat without pain or fear. Using technology to minimize the harm to your target is not an unfair advantage.

[bigfellascott]

“..I don't consider spotlighting to be hunting, ”

Interesting comment, never thought of that. What’s your definition of hunting?

Bow and arrow handmade from Aussie sapling, bare foot only, gum leaf loin cloth covering genitals. Anything more is unfair advantage.

Not quite, but that's a standard response from spotlighters.
Fair chase is not about the technology, it's about taking the animal in it's own habitat without pain or fear. Using technology to minimize the harm to your target is not an unfair advantage.

Sounds like a standard response from someone who's full of s**t! Honestly though you can't really believe that s**t surely if you want fair chase use a spear not a rifle.

[bladeracer]

“..I don't consider spotlighting to be hunting, ”

Interesting comment, never thought of that. What’s your definition of hunting?

Bow and arrow handmade from Aussie sapling, bare foot only, gum leaf loin cloth covering genitals. Anything more is unfair advantage.

Not quite, but that's a standard response from spotlighters.
Fair chase is not about the technology, it's about taking the animal in it's own habitat without pain or fear. Using technology to minimize the harm to your target is not an unfair advantage.

Sounds like a standard response from someone who's full of s**t! Honestly though you can't really believe that s**t surely if you want fair chase use a spear not a rifle.

Thanks for the response, are you a spotlighter?
I was asked specifically for my definition, which I gave, feel free to offer your own.
The problem with spears and clubs is that they don't kill cleanly, if you need to kill something to save your life then use whatever you have, otherwise use means and methods that ensure a clean kill, without affecting the animals' enjoyment of its day.

Spotlighting is no different to "hunting" caged animals, but it is a neccessary option sometimes to reduce numbers. I don't have any problem with spotlighting for legitimate purpose.

The fact that so many spotlighters do get defensive probably indicates that they don't consider it hunting either? I don't recall any that did consider it to be hunting, most I've known spotlight for profit. Either by selling the results or protecting their property investment. One of the local guys here keeps precise records of just what each fox costs him, he uses factory .204 Hornady and sells the brass.

[in2anity]

Sounds like a standard response from someone who's full of s**t! Honestly though you can't really believe that s**t surely if you want fair chase use a spear not a rifle.

I'm with yu BFS - the only thing that would make things truly "fair" would be if they carried guns and could shoot back!

I fail to understand why people can't realize that the meaning of "fair vs unfair" and "right vs wrong" and "good vs evil" is but a figment of one's imagination, defined on an entirely individual basis, and ultimately sculpted by the information we are fed (which is usually always bias).

In reality, in this world, averaging all that is, there is no "right" and "wrong", there just is. Spend any time in a war-torn country and you'll quickly learn this...

Sorry OP we digress massively

[bladeracer]

Sounds like a standard response from someone who's full of s**t! Honestly though you can't really believe that s**t surely if you want fair chase use a spear not a rifle.

I'm with yu BFS - the only thing that would make things truly "fair" would be if they carried guns and could shoot back!

I fail to understand why people can't realize that the meaning of "fair vs unfair" and "right vs wrong" and "good vs evil" is but a figment of one's imagination, defined on an entirely individual basis, and ultimately sculpted by the information we are fed (which is always bias).

In reality, in this world, averaging all that is, there is no "right" and "wrong", there just is. Spend any time in a war-torn country and you'll quickly learn this...

Sorry OP we digress massively

That's exactly right, we each have our own definition, it's okay to have different ones
As I said, feel free to offer your own definitions of hunting.

[bigfellascott]

“..I don't consider spotlighting to be hunting, ”

Interesting comment, never thought of that. What’s your definition of hunting?

Bow and arrow handmade from Aussie sapling, bare foot only, gum leaf loin cloth covering genitals. Anything more is unfair advantage.

Not quite, but that's a standard response from spotlighters.
Fair chase is not about the technology, it's about taking the animal in it's own habitat without pain or fear. Using technology to minimize the harm to your target is not an unfair advantage.

Sounds like a standard response from someone who's full of s**t! Honestly though you can't really believe that s**t surely if you want fair chase use a spear not a rifle.

Thanks for the response, are you a spotlighter?
I was asked specifically for my definition, which I gave, feel free to offer your own.
The problem with spears and clubs is that they don't kill cleanly, if you need to kill something to save your life then use whatever you have, otherwise use means and methods that ensure a clean kill, without affecting the animals' enjoyment of its day.

Spotlighting is no different to "hunting" caged animals, but it is a neccessary option sometimes to reduce numbers. I don't have any problem with spotlighting for legitimate purpose.

The fact that so many spotlighters do get defensive probably indicates that they don't consider it hunting either? I don't recall any that did consider it to be hunting, most I've known spotlight for profit. Either by selling the results or protecting their property investment. One of the local guys here keeps precise records of just what each fox costs him, he uses factory .204 Hornady and sells the brass.

What a load of s**t, Oh I only use methods that won't upset an animals enjoyment of it's day - f*** me dead I've never heard of such crap from someone who hunts - I g'tee any animal would be upset if it got killed no matter the method

You are Delusional if you don't think what you are doing doesn't cause some sort of negative effect on either the animal you shot or those around it!

[xDom]

"..Sorry OP we digress massively "

Nah Mate! I'm enjoying this, might even crack a beer to go with it.

[bladeracer]

]What a load of s**t, Oh I only use methods that won't upset an animals enjoyment of it's day - f*** me dead I've never heard of such crap from someone who hunts - I g'tee any animal would be upset if it got killed no matter the method

You are Delusional if you don't think what you are doing doesn't cause some sort of negative effect on either the animal you shot or those around it!

You are Delusional if you don't think what you are doing doesn't cause some sort of negative effect on either the animal you shot or those around it!

You are delusional if you believe any animal cares about anything when it's dead Yes, animals can be traumatized by others being killed around them, if they notice.

You seem perfectly happy, and well equipped, to attack and abuse somebody that has a differing opinion, but not so ready to offer your own view. My view of hunting does not require a dead animal to be fulfilling, the hunting is the enjoyment for me. I have been out with people whose only goal is to kill everything that moves, that doesn't do it for me.

Wasn't this entire diversion started by you disparaging somebody for spotlighting deer?