Upgrade to a .204?

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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bladeracer » 13 Oct 2019, 8:42 am

bigfellascott wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:
xDom wrote:“..I don't consider spotlighting to be hunting, ”

Interesting comment, never thought of that. What’s your definition of hunting?


Bow and arrow handmade from Aussie sapling, bare foot only, gum leaf loin cloth covering genitals. Anything more is unfair advantage.


:-)
Not quite, but that's a standard response from spotlighters.
Fair chase is not about the technology, it's about taking the animal in it's own habitat without pain or fear. Using technology to minimize the harm to your target is not an unfair advantage.


Sounds like a standard response from someone who's full of s**t! :D Honestly though you can't really believe that s**t surely if you want fair chase use a spear not a rifle. :drinks:


Thanks for the response, are you a spotlighter?
I was asked specifically for my definition, which I gave, feel free to offer your own.
The problem with spears and clubs is that they don't kill cleanly, if you need to kill something to save your life then use whatever you have, otherwise use means and methods that ensure a clean kill, without affecting the animals' enjoyment of its day.

Spotlighting is no different to "hunting" caged animals, but it is a neccessary option sometimes to reduce numbers. I don't have any problem with spotlighting for legitimate purpose.

The fact that so many spotlighters do get defensive probably indicates that they don't consider it hunting either? I don't recall any that did consider it to be hunting, most I've known spotlight for profit. Either by selling the results or protecting their property investment. One of the local guys here keeps precise records of just what each fox costs him, he uses factory .204 Hornady and sells the brass.
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by in2anity » 13 Oct 2019, 9:12 am

bigfellascott wrote:Sounds like a standard response from someone who's full of s**t! :D Honestly though you can't really believe that s**t surely if you want fair chase use a spear not a rifle. :drinks:


:lol: I'm with yu BFS :drinks: - the only thing that would make things truly "fair" would be if they carried guns and could shoot back!

I fail to understand why people can't realize that the meaning of "fair vs unfair" and "right vs wrong" and "good vs evil" is but a figment of one's imagination, defined on an entirely individual basis, and ultimately sculpted by the information we are fed (which is usually always bias).

In reality, in this world, averaging all that is, there is no "right" and "wrong", there just is. Spend any time in a war-torn country and you'll quickly learn this...

Sorry OP we digress massively :crazy: :lol:
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bladeracer » 13 Oct 2019, 9:19 am

in2anity wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Sounds like a standard response from someone who's full of s**t! :D Honestly though you can't really believe that s**t surely if you want fair chase use a spear not a rifle. :drinks:


:lol: I'm with yu BFS :drinks: - the only thing that would make things truly "fair" would be if they carried guns and could shoot back!

I fail to understand why people can't realize that the meaning of "fair vs unfair" and "right vs wrong" and "good vs evil" is but a figment of one's imagination, defined on an entirely individual basis, and ultimately sculpted by the information we are fed (which is always bias).

In reality, in this world, averaging all that is, there is no "right" and "wrong", there just is. Spend any time in a war-torn country and you'll quickly learn this...

Sorry OP we digress massively :crazy: :lol:


That's exactly right, we each have our own definition, it's okay to have different ones :-)
As I said, feel free to offer your own definitions of hunting.
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Oct 2019, 9:23 am

bladeracer wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:
xDom wrote:“..I don't consider spotlighting to be hunting, ”

Interesting comment, never thought of that. What’s your definition of hunting?


Bow and arrow handmade from Aussie sapling, bare foot only, gum leaf loin cloth covering genitals. Anything more is unfair advantage.


:-)
Not quite, but that's a standard response from spotlighters.
Fair chase is not about the technology, it's about taking the animal in it's own habitat without pain or fear. Using technology to minimize the harm to your target is not an unfair advantage.


Sounds like a standard response from someone who's full of s**t! :D Honestly though you can't really believe that s**t surely if you want fair chase use a spear not a rifle. :drinks:


Thanks for the response, are you a spotlighter?
I was asked specifically for my definition, which I gave, feel free to offer your own.
The problem with spears and clubs is that they don't kill cleanly, if you need to kill something to save your life then use whatever you have, otherwise use means and methods that ensure a clean kill, without affecting the animals' enjoyment of its day.

Spotlighting is no different to "hunting" caged animals, but it is a neccessary option sometimes to reduce numbers. I don't have any problem with spotlighting for legitimate purpose.

The fact that so many spotlighters do get defensive probably indicates that they don't consider it hunting either? I don't recall any that did consider it to be hunting, most I've known spotlight for profit. Either by selling the results or protecting their property investment. One of the local guys here keeps precise records of just what each fox costs him, he uses factory .204 Hornady and sells the brass.


What a load of s**t, Oh I only use methods that won't upset an animals enjoyment of it's day - f*** me dead I've never heard of such crap from someone who hunts - I g'tee any animal would be upset if it got killed no matter the method :lol:

You are Delusional if you don't think what you are doing doesn't cause some sort of negative effect on either the animal you shot or those around it! :drinks:
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by xDom » 13 Oct 2019, 9:38 am

"..Sorry OP we digress massively "

Nah Mate! I'm enjoying this, might even crack a beer to go with it.
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bladeracer » 13 Oct 2019, 10:01 am

bigfellascott wrote:]What a load of s**t, Oh I only use methods that won't upset an animals enjoyment of it's day - f*** me dead I've never heard of such crap from someone who hunts - I g'tee any animal would be upset if it got killed no matter the method :lol:

You are Delusional if you don't think what you are doing doesn't cause some sort of negative effect on either the animal you shot or those around it! :drinks:

You are Delusional if you don't think what you are doing doesn't cause some sort of negative effect on either the animal you shot or those around it! :drinks:


You are delusional if you believe any animal cares about anything when it's dead :-) Yes, animals can be traumatized by others being killed around them, if they notice.

You seem perfectly happy, and well equipped, to attack and abuse somebody that has a differing opinion, but not so ready to offer your own view. My view of hunting does not require a dead animal to be fulfilling, the hunting is the enjoyment for me. I have been out with people whose only goal is to kill everything that moves, that doesn't do it for me.

Wasn't this entire diversion started by you disparaging somebody for spotlighting deer?
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by duncan61 » 13 Oct 2019, 10:35 am

I am in.I paid for a safari to Ahrnem land to "HUNT"Trophy Buffalo and the best thing that happened apart from catching a Barramundi was I learned I am not a Hunter.I was raised on spotlighting foxes rabbits and roos as a teenager then progressed to pro culling Roos shot a heap of goats out the Midwest and all out of a car the only walking involved was to collect the game.The other chap on the Buffalo trip was from Victoria and his idea of a good time was wandering around alpine country for days looking for Samba.Big fat pass from me.Could ones preference be what you have done before and what is available.I tried walking for goats on a station out of Cue and 5 km in went back and got the ute.In the west you may have to drive a long way between game.If you see the windmill then walk in on foot is that hunting.We all do different disciplines I like target shooting many roo cullers I met think it is a waste of ammo and cant you shoot straight already.A lot of people have jazzed up .22LR and just go to the local club and shoot paper at 50 metres
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by Stix » 13 Oct 2019, 10:55 am

Gees...the flogging you boys are giving Blade is what id expect to see you give an anti gun vegan... :shock:

:) And i dont see how projecting wide ranging generalised & non-specific definitions of fair & unfair on to Blade have anything to do with his opinion of what he personally deems unfair advantage to what he personally defines as hunting... :)
As he says--he's only answering a question... :unknown:

Is the guy that drags cars down the qurter mile delusional if he thinks a super car has an unfair advantage over a formula vee...?
Or is he delusional because a rally car driver doesnt consider the drags a form of car racing... :unknown:

I know im opening myself up to a barrage of abuse from ya's, :unknown: but i respectfully think you're putting a slant on Blade's opinion that isnt there... :)

Its pretty clear he holds a heavy respect for any animals lives & them not being put through unnecessary pain...nothing wrong with that at all...!!... :clap:
And as a different point, he's said what he finds enjoyable about the more traditional "hunt" for him...

He's also said he hasnt shot much (or any... :unknown: ) by spotlight & doesnt consider that to fulfil his definition of "hunting"...so be it... :|

I dont see the problem... :unknown:

To a point i agree with him--i love my foxing by spotlight, & to have a dumb pup stand staring at the light only 25 yds from the car & shoot it in the face is nothing more than pest destruction...

Id rekon if Blade came with me, & experienced me having to try out smart an educated mature cunning fox in a calculated chase through 4 or 5 paddocks spanning the best part of an hour, having to navigate gates, terrain, hidden rabbit or wombat burrows, sheep (and stray sheep & lambs during lambing) & the wind, to either finish up lost & fox-less or finally getting a 3 second window for a shot, only to dry fire on an empty chamber, he'd see there is a form of spotlighting you can call a hunt.

But maybe he hasnt experienced ithis... :unknown:

Anyway...just saying...i dont see him to be the delusional crazy you're making him out to be--i think thats stretching what he's said... :)
:)
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Hey xDom...i might need one of those beers soon with whats coming my way... :lol:
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bladeracer » 13 Oct 2019, 12:09 pm

Stix wrote:Gees...the flogging you boys are giving Blade is what id expect to see you give an anti gun vegan... :shock:

:) And i dont see how projecting wide ranging generalised & non-specific definitions of fair & unfair on to Blade have anything to do with his opinion of what he personally deems unfair advantage to what he personally defines as hunting... :)
As he says--he's only answering a question... :unknown:

Is the guy that drags cars down the qurter mile delusional if he thinks a super car has an unfair advantage over a formula vee...?
Or is he delusional because a rally car driver doesnt consider the drags a form of car racing... :unknown:

I know im opening myself up to a barrage of abuse from ya's, :unknown: but i respectfully think you're putting a slant on Blade's opinion that isnt there... :)

Its pretty clear he holds a heavy respect for any animals lives & them not being put through unnecessary pain...nothing wrong with that at all...!!... :clap:
And as a different point, he's said what he finds enjoyable about the more traditional "hunt" for him...

He's also said he hasnt shot much (or any... :unknown: ) by spotlight & doesnt consider that to fulfil his definition of "hunting"...so be it... :|

I dont see the problem... :unknown:

To a point i agree with him--i love my foxing by spotlight, & to have a dumb pup stand staring at the light only 25 yds from the car & shoot it in the face is nothing more than pest destruction...

Id rekon if Blade came with me, & experienced me having to try out smart an educated mature cunning fox in a calculated chase through 4 or 5 paddocks spanning the best part of an hour, having to navigate gates, terrain, hidden rabbit or wombat burrows, sheep (and stray sheep & lambs during lambing) & the wind, to either finish up lost & fox-less or finally getting a 3 second window for a shot, only to dry fire on an empty chamber, he'd see there is a form of spotlighting you can call a hunt.

But maybe he hasnt experienced ithis... :unknown:

Anyway...just saying...i dont see him to be the delusional crazy you're making him out to be--i think thats stretching what he's said... :)
:)
:drinks:

Hey xDom...i might need one of those beers soon with whats coming my way... :lol:


I appreciate what you're saying Stix, and I do accept that some shooters wouldn't consider anything other than spotlighting, that's their thing and if it helps keep pest numbers in check I'm all for it.

I have been out with spotlighters, and I do understand that it can be challenging taking down a smart old fox. The pair I saw most often were cowboys hiding from the law and living on fox money. They lived in a caravan hidden away on the same property we were living on, working for cash for the landowner, butchering sheep for him. I never knew their names. These guys went out every night, all night. They accidentally shot stock and pets, even bringing home a boot load of beef after accidentally shooting somebody's bull. They told me they shot out somebody's window once thinking the light was a fox. They would shoot in built-up areas, then come back hours later to collect the foxes, which sometimes turned out to not be foxes at all, from parks, streets and people's yards in town. Granted, this pair in particular probably soured my taste for spotlighting in general, but I had ridden along with them (when they stayed around the farms, though I'm now quite certain they did not have permission to enter many of the properties they shot, if any at all). Looking back I can't see them going around getting permissions, as they didn't want anybody knowing they existed. I lived and worked alongside them for months and knew nothing about them. I've often wondered why on earth they ever thought to invite a strange kid along. But the younger one that did the shooting was an extraordinarily good shooter, and I'd always be talking shooting with him.

I don't have any problem with spotlighters, but it doesn't work for me. If we had a more serious fox problem I would certainly have to take it up myself, until then I'll stick with chasing them down on foot in daylight :-)

Although it has only just occurred to me, those properties I hunted every single day when I was a kid never had to have spotlighters on them while I lived there, I took care of their pest problems entirely on my own, and made very good money from the foxes.
Last edited by bladeracer on 13 Oct 2019, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bladeracer » 13 Oct 2019, 12:27 pm

duncan61 wrote:I am in.I paid for a safari to Ahrnem land to "HUNT"Trophy Buffalo and the best thing that happened apart from catching a Barramundi was I learned I am not a Hunter.I was raised on spotlighting foxes rabbits and roos as a teenager then progressed to pro culling Roos shot a heap of goats out the Midwest and all out of a car the only walking involved was to collect the game.The other chap on the Buffalo trip was from Victoria and his idea of a good time was wandering around alpine country for days looking for Samba.Big fat pass from me.Could ones preference be what you have done before and what is available.I tried walking for goats on a station out of Cue and 5 km in went back and got the ute.In the west you may have to drive a long way between game.If you see the windmill then walk in on foot is that hunting.We all do different disciplines I like target shooting many roo cullers I met think it is a waste of ammo and cant you shoot straight already.A lot of people have jazzed up .22LR and just go to the local club and shoot paper at 50 metres


Agreed, spotlighting is a skillset of it's own, not better or worse, just different skills aimed at different goals.

This is not directed at you Duncan, but I have heard a similar story a few times, people that have spent years hunting, think they really should experience a paid hunt one day, only to find they're essentially shooting a tame beast in a paddock that has been placed there specifically for them to "hunt" it, very disappointing. If that's your (again, not you Duncan) thing, enjoy it, but don't assume your view of hunting to coincide with mine :-)

The Kimberly is an absolutely astonishing place to be walking around the bush, completely on your own, knowing there is nobody within miles of you. I have spent amazing evenings sitting around a fire, the only whitefella, the men and women cleaning 'roos, snakes and goanna, while the youngsters trot up from the creek, toss a frog on the fire to kill it, them eat it :-)
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Oct 2019, 12:36 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:]What a load of s**t, Oh I only use methods that won't upset an animals enjoyment of it's day - f*** me dead I've never heard of such crap from someone who hunts - I g'tee any animal would be upset if it got killed no matter the method :lol:

You are Delusional if you don't think what you are doing doesn't cause some sort of negative effect on either the animal you shot or those around it! :drinks:

You are Delusional if you don't think what you are doing doesn't cause some sort of negative effect on either the animal you shot or those around it! :drinks:


You are delusional if you believe any animal cares about anything when it's dead :-) Yes, animals can be traumatized by others being killed around them, if they notice.

You seem perfectly happy, and well equipped, to attack and abuse somebody that has a differing opinion, but not so ready to offer your own view. My view of hunting does not require a dead animal to be fulfilling, the hunting is the enjoyment for me. I have been out with people whose only goal is to kill everything that moves, that doesn't do it for me.

Wasn't this entire diversion started by you disparaging somebody for spotlighting deer?


No I was questioning whether it was legal in SA as it's not here (that may be changing or has changed here recently - haven't bothered to check where its at) I honestly don't care if people shoot deer under a light and half pissed, that's entirely up to them, as for you thinking that because you don't bother shooting under an artificial light source and thinking that somehow what you do is morally superior and more ethical is somewhat delusional in my opinion :drinks:

P.S. I don't bother shooting everything that moves either and honestly couldn't care less if I do/don't shoot something, I just enjoy being out in the bush like you do by the sounds of it, if I shoot something that's the cherry on top so to speak :thumbsup:
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bladeracer » 13 Oct 2019, 1:03 pm

bigfellascott wrote:No I was questioning whether it was legal in SA as it's not here (that may be changing or has changed here recently - haven't bothered to check where its at) I honestly don't care if people shoot deer under a light and half pissed, that's entirely up to them, as for you thinking that because you don't bother shooting under an artificial light source and thinking that somehow what you do is morally superior and more ethical is somewhat delusional in my opinion :drinks:

P.S. I don't bother shooting everything that moves either and honestly couldn't care less if I do/don't shoot something, I just enjoy being out in the bush like you do by the sounds of it, if I shoot something that's the cherry on top so to speak :thumbsup:


I looked at the legal side of all shooting when I moved here, which is why I remember it being legal for landowners, while illegal for hunters to spotlight deer. And I think there is/was a clause that allowed landowners to spotlight something like 250m into adjoining public lands as well, or something like that.

Moral superiority doesn't enter into it, we're merely discussing how we define hunting. Our morals very likely shape our definition of course, but that's an aside. I don't drink, smoke, use drugs, eat butter or salt, drink tea or coffee, watch television and such because I don't like what such things do to me, not because those things are morally repugnant to me, it doesn't make me feel morally superior to people that do, but I do avoid those people that do such things to their own detriment. I don't like what they do to me and I don't like watching other people do it to themselves either.
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by Stix » 13 Oct 2019, 1:26 pm

The state govt here in SA are on the march to rid this state of all feral deer...
They think its able to be done with a proactive attitude if its acted on now...

They dont want an industry (recreational hunting of deer) like you have in NSW & Vic due to the cost to the agriculter industry...

So that means deer are just like cats--shoot em & destroy as many as you can, as quick as you can....
I nearly got one a while back--was only 30 yds & was gonna pop it with sub hp's in the 22...didnt happen though... :thumbsdown:

The govt have groups go through the parks spotlighting them--they encourage spotlighting bambi here... :D

Right or wrong...?...dunno...

I understand this govt also mandates that when trspping dogs, rubber jaw'd traps be used for the sske of the animals welfare...but get this--along with the rubber jaw traps, its apparently also mandatory to use strychnine on the trap...

Ever seen a dog die from 1080 or strychnine...???...

How thats in the interest of animal welfare is beyond me... :unknown:

Our Govt must have suffered a dose of "Cane Toad" intellect dysfunction in making that law... :crazy:
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Oct 2019, 2:19 pm

Stix wrote:The state govt here in SA are on the march to rid this state of all feral deer...
They think its able to be done with a proactive attitude if its acted on now...

They dont want an industry (recreational hunting of deer) like you have in NSW & Vic due to the cost to the agriculter industry...

So that means deer are just like cats--shoot em & destroy as many as you can, as quick as you can....
I nearly got one a while back--was only 30 yds & was gonna pop it with sub hp's in the 22...didnt happen though... :thumbsdown:

The govt have groups go through the parks spotlighting them--they encourage spotlighting bambi here... :D

Right or wrong...?...dunno...

I understand this govt also mandates that when trspping dogs, rubber jaw'd traps be used for the sske of the animals welfare...but get this--along with the rubber jaw traps, its apparently also mandatory to use strychnine on the trap...

Ever seen a dog die from 1080 or strychnine...???...

How thats in the interest of animal welfare is beyond me... :unknown:

Our Govt must have suffered a dose of "Cane Toad" intellect dysfunction in making that law... :crazy:


At least your state allows it which is a good idea - to me they are nothing special and I see em like any other pest animal that needs controlling. :thumbsup:
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bladeracer » 13 Oct 2019, 4:26 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
Stix wrote:The state govt here in SA are on the march to rid this state of all feral deer...
They think its able to be done with a proactive attitude if its acted on now...

They dont want an industry (recreational hunting of deer) like you have in NSW & Vic due to the cost to the agriculter industry...

So that means deer are just like cats--shoot em & destroy as many as you can, as quick as you can....
I nearly got one a while back--was only 30 yds & was gonna pop it with sub hp's in the 22...didnt happen though... :thumbsdown:

The govt have groups go through the parks spotlighting them--they encourage spotlighting bambi here... :D

Right or wrong...?...dunno...

I understand this govt also mandates that when trspping dogs, rubber jaw'd traps be used for the sske of the animals welfare...but get this--along with the rubber jaw traps, its apparently also mandatory to use strychnine on the trap...

Ever seen a dog die from 1080 or strychnine...???...

How thats in the interest of animal welfare is beyond me... :unknown:

Our Govt must have suffered a dose of "Cane Toad" intellect dysfunction in making that law... :crazy:


At least your state allows it which is a good idea - to me they are nothing special and I see em like any other pest animal that needs controlling. :thumbsup:


I agree, but kicking them to death with steel-caps would be infinitely more humane than 1080, that stuff is disgusting. Spotlighting is the best way to keep them under control.
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Oct 2019, 9:57 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
Stix wrote:The state govt here in SA are on the march to rid this state of all feral deer...
They think its able to be done with a proactive attitude if its acted on now...

They dont want an industry (recreational hunting of deer) like you have in NSW & Vic due to the cost to the agriculter industry...

So that means deer are just like cats--shoot em & destroy as many as you can, as quick as you can....
I nearly got one a while back--was only 30 yds & was gonna pop it with sub hp's in the 22...didnt happen though... :thumbsdown:

The govt have groups go through the parks spotlighting them--they encourage spotlighting bambi here... :D

Right or wrong...?...dunno...

I understand this govt also mandates that when trspping dogs, rubber jaw'd traps be used for the sske of the animals welfare...but get this--along with the rubber jaw traps, its apparently also mandatory to use strychnine on the trap...

Ever seen a dog die from 1080 or strychnine...???...

How thats in the interest of animal welfare is beyond me... :unknown:

Our Govt must have suffered a dose of "Cane Toad" intellect dysfunction in making that law... :crazy:


At least your state allows it which is a good idea - to me they are nothing special and I see em like any other pest animal that needs controlling. :thumbsup:


I agree, but kicking them to death with steel-caps would be infinitely more humane than 1080, that stuff is disgusting. Spotlighting is the best way to keep them under control.


I'm hearing the pros are using thermal gear now. :thumbsup:
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by Peter988 » 13 Oct 2019, 10:35 pm

So what about the 204 discussion. I was enjoying that.
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bladeracer » 13 Oct 2019, 11:21 pm

Peter988 wrote:So what about the 204 discussion. I was enjoying that.


Hopefully xdom has already ordered himself a .204 :-)
I love the Ruger American Predator myself, in .204 and in .223.
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by xDom » 14 Oct 2019, 6:48 am

bladeracer wrote:
Peter988 wrote:So what about the 204 discussion. I was enjoying that.


Hopefully xdom has already ordered himself a .204 :-)
I love the Ruger American Predator myself, in .204 and in .223.



I've already got a Ruger American in 22 Mag. Neat little rifle. nice and light. Would that be the same format as the American Predator in .204?
My Magnum was only about $650, if I remember.
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Re: Upgrade to a .204?

Post by bladeracer » 14 Oct 2019, 7:12 am

xDom wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Peter988 wrote:So what about the 204 discussion. I was enjoying that.


Hopefully xdom has already ordered himself a .204 :-)
I love the Ruger American Predator myself, in .204 and in .223.



I've already got a Ruger American in 22 Mag. Neat little rifle. nice and light. Would that be the same format as the American Predator in .204?
My Magnum was only about $650, if I remember.


Similar, but not the same, the centrefires have much larger actions with locking lugs on the bolts. I have the Compact and Target rimfires, as well as the Precision Rimfire, all in.22LR. In centrefires I have Predators in .204, .223 and .243, and the 7mm-08 in the Standard model. These are all the same Short Action, all identical except for the chambering. The Standard model has a lighter barrel with unthreaded muzzle. They use two different magazines and bolts for the .223 and .308 bolt faces. All of mine are in MDT LSS chassis using AICS 10rd mags, which allow loading .223Rem .200" longer than the standard (2.260" cartridge) with long VLD/ELD bullets.
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Victoria

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