Best action for rifle build

[in2anity]

The Howa is nothing like a Rem 700, the Howa action is an early Sako design the Japanese bought and refined, now waiting for the Sako fanbois comments, lol.

Well, that's a matter of perspective isn't it Strikey. Sure, if you want to get into the technicalities of it, I certainly can't argue with you. But that's why I used the word "basically". They do share the same general aspects (except for the m16 style extractor). The reason I compared the Howa against the m700 is because the m700 action is such a popular action to build upon - and I'm really not a fan of the pricetag of R700s these days. Far too much of a inflated reputation of "military grade".

Anyways, we digress. Glad to see another vouching for the Howa My gun is a genuine 10-shot, 3/4 minute gun. And that's with pretty rough old handloads. I'm sure it'd go 1/2moa if I payed real close attention to my reloads. But the benchrest and f-class realm is really not my cup of tea.

howa_small.jpg (2.86 MiB) Viewed 4963 times

[bigrich]

rem 700's are a good thing, well catered for with aftermarket parts. new actions are also available . lots of stocks available as well. i've had good results with push feed winchester 70's , if you look hard , good donor rifles are available at modest prices when they turn up . mauser 98's can be made into great rifles , but sometimes you'll spend a lot of money with gunsmiths getting the work done . zastava actions can be had new, but i don't think their a true 98 action, their more a yugo m48 and some parts aren't interchangeable . i think. i'm sure i'll be corrected by those more knowledgable than myself .

[marksman]

rem 700's are a good thing, well catered for with aftermarket parts. new actions are also available . lots of stocks available as well. i've had good results with push feed winchester 70's , if you look hard , good donor rifles are available at modest prices when they turn up . mauser 98's can be made into great rifles , but sometimes you'll spend a lot of money with gunsmiths getting the work done . zastava actions can be had new, but i don't think their a true 98 action, their more a yugo m48 and some parts aren't interchangeable . i think. i'm sure i'll be corrected by those more knowledgable than myself .

blasphemy
you are being corrected bigrich
l know of only 2 differences in the zastava and the early model 98
the thumb cut out
and early mauser 98's a have "C-type" receiver, only one channel milled in it on one side at some point comercial action makers started to fudge and mill 2 channels in the breech, to make it easier to machine the locking lug channels.
zastava got there tooling from the germans after ww2, they are a true 98

[marksman]

in2anity FYI

Howa (now markets their own bolt design, also marketed as Weatherby Vanguard) produced a knock-off of the Sako L61R back in the 1960's. It was called the Golden Bear (close enough to Finnbear). Urban legend has it that there was a successful international patent lawsuit brought by Sako which shut down Howa's production.

https://sakocollectors.com/forum/thread ... copy.2261/

not trying to be a sm@rt@rse

[in2anity]

in2anity FYI

Howa (now markets their own bolt design, also marketed as Weatherby Vanguard) produced a knock-off of the Sako L61R back in the 1960's. It was called the Golden Bear (close enough to Finnbear). Urban legend has it that there was a successful international patent lawsuit brought by Sako which shut down Howa's production.

https://sakocollectors.com/forum/thread ... copy.2261/

not trying to be a sm@rt@rse

lol yeah righto righto, i concede I’ll admit, I wasn’t aware of the history. Good guns, both of em.

[Member-Deleted]

OH MY GOSH! what have I created here ? Nah just joking fella's . you see why i'm chasing info for this,? there is so much to take into consideration ,especially when you're like me. only ever bought rifles and put up with the defects ( not that there was many) just bad stocks sometimes the older rifles were built to last in my opinion and that would possibly be a good place to start even the dreaded Remington because of the inter changeable items and after market stocks . here's close to what i'd like in the end , one like a Christian arms rifle good quality not really new type ,but accurate to shoot able distances and comfy to shoot ,med-heavy barrel, good scope that's enough for me. but the more I look at things the more I get a horrible feeling in my gut of failure Yup , ''Me'', ''Failure'' ,never been a match till now and holey cow its a horrible feeling I have a lot of thinking and pondering on brands and info now thanks

[marksman]

l built a 270wsm out of my last 300wm and it has better ballistics with 150gr sst's than my 6.5x284 with 140gr bergers
l could have gone the 300wsm but the 270wsm is better for what l want, a long distance really flat shooting thumper
so far it has been put to work at over 700yds without a hitch

mine full cost including original rifle was
1000 rifle
1000 scope
350 barrel
350 stock
400 smith
200 dies and cases

l had to do a lot of fitting and finishing but it shoots 150gr bullets @ 3200fps 1/4 moa

l'm not trying to talk you into anything or trying to confuse you
the hard part is deciding what you want but l know your smart enough to know that

here is the rifle finished but it has a bigger scope on it now

[Member-Deleted]

Nothing wrong with that rifle by the looks mate . And What action is it built on ? And yeah 270 wsm would be one i'd look at no doubt .I used to own a Parker Hale in 270 years ago and it was a very accurate rifle and hit like the powers , it used to roll the brumbies with authority every time. yep i'll ponder that one . Ive also thought about the 7mag as well . if only I could get bits for my sako 7mm mag I could make it into a good rifle with some tinkering , maybe a trg stock but they won't fit according to GS and too expensive to buy and try. anyway got a start thanks MM

[marksman]

your right about stocks being hard to find for the later sako's
l had a bit of a look at richards micro fit who are usually pretty good but they only have stocks for the early ones

this action is just an old tang safety ruger, nothing special but l was attached to it and it works
the reason l suggested the wsm is the smaller case is easier to fit in long action for the oal, my 270wsm cases with 150gr bullets are very long
its like shooting needles and as l said it is better ballisticly than my 6.5x284
you could even get a tikka action already in wsm ect... but it needs to be something you can plumb (the plumbers gun )

anyway more to think about

[bigrich]

blasphemy
you are being corrected bigrich
l know of only 2 differences in the zastava and the early model 98
the thumb cut out
and early mauser 98's a have "C-type" receiver, only one channel milled in it on one side at some point comercial action makers started to fudge and mill 2 channels in the breech, to make it easier to machine the locking lug channels.
zastava got there tooling from the germans after ww2, they are a true 98

oops, i've been corrected
there are lots of variants in the range of mauser contract /millitary rifles but, which can be a trap . small ring , large ring, intermediate action (turk, argentine), m48 yugo , k98 . i was sure i had read somewhere that the zastava had subtle differences to the k98 . i read recently that some parker hales had 1903 springfield bolts modified to fit in parker's surplus mauser actions . the early parker hales have a good reputation, some are reworked ww2 surplus mausers, later ones were built on spanish commercial mauser actions . of coarse for magnum cases a modified p14 would be interesting, no worries about action strength on a winchester/remington made action. p14/m17 are massivly over enginered .. i've played the waiting game with gun smiths and it can be frustrating

[cracker]

iv been told by a competent melbourne gun smith that the "fn" mauser actions are the go.
parker and hales are good aswell, cz550 are another good action

[bigrich]

iv been told by a competent melbourne gun smith that the "fn" mauser actions are the go.
parker and hales are good aswell, cz550 are another good action

+1 on the cz 550 . i hadn't remembered about that action. a mate got one recently in 9.3x62 , and it would be great as a basis for a custom build, especially with the scope mount arangement of a simple grooved receiver top and built in recoil lug to stop mount shift

[Stix]

I feel your pain with regard to money, putting up with defects & wanting the 'right" rifle...& im not even in the market for my big custom pet jobby yet...

Firstly, beware of that marksman fella--he'll have you in love with a rifle & cartridge before you know it...!!...
As an example, ive never wanted a 270 let alone in a magnum--but now i feel as though i need one...

But seriously...

Im gathering youre like me & dont really know a lot about everything that is available to us out there, & what actions are worth it & what arent...so to educate yourself on the history of actions & everything related to make the right decision will be almost impossible, & certainly overwhelming...

So another way to approach this to avoid an almost impossible overload of information, is to just wander through used guns & have a look at whats about...when you see something that looks good, as the question...
For example...a couple of years ago i wanted another 22-250 & there was some disscussion on here about an older Parker Hale action that was apparently a good action to build on...next thing one came up on used guns in 243, almost mint condition, one owner & was only $400 odd bucks...so i rang & missed out by less than 5 mins... (i remember i thought it was marksman who bought it because he laughed at me for missing out... )

So maybe instead of agonising over deciding on a specific fancy action, like GQshayne also mentioned, just choose a rifle that you like/like the look of as you see them become available & then ask the lads "what about these".

Also, maybe be prepared to send the rifle interstate to known & recommended gunsmiths to get the work done--& maybe even enlist the help/services of a genuine expert when it comes to finding & tuning a load, & all the prep work for brass etc...(im not for a moment suggesting you cant load ammo mate--i hope you know that but if you are like me, sometimes i shoot i great 3 shot group that prints an inch, & other times i shoot 3 shots without a care & they all touch--& a great deal of that i feel is in the intricacies of loading)...

Having seen the results from what were pretty standard factory actions of guys who really know how to tweak rifles, both on here & from one or two bench resters at the range, (although in my experience, the latter are not often willing to give away very much detailed info to help) im a big believer that you shouldnt have to spend big bucks to get a really nice rifle that is super accurate & a pleasure to shoot...

Taking marksmans example is a great example of what i mean...his costing & how that rifle shoots is amazing i rekon---& thats exactly the route i intend to take when i embark on what you are wanting to do now.

...

My suggestion would be to start by narrowing down to a couple of cartridges that you think you'd like...

With that...make a list of basic features you want in an action...(short/long, top feed/only mag fed, known reliability of recoil lug system, suitable trigger availability & the ability for them to be tweaked down to your desired safe pull weight...etc etc...)

As i said, as options pop up on the gun sites, ask away & you'll educate yourself as you go along, instead of doin the info intensive cramming of knowledge.

Im keen to see how you progress mate, so i really hope you keep us informed as you progress through this (to use the modern popular term) "journey"

Cheers Big Ears...

[Member-Deleted]

Yeah thanks for that Stix but alas another road block , I have to buy a electrical generator first and that will set me back $2,560 and 4-5 mths, but I can still keep looking for info on rifle actions, it doesn't matter that it will be heavy or not the best looking rifle just respectable, accurate , and easy to get bits ie standard brand Remmy, Howa anything that you can take one stock off and bolt another on with out too much trouble . I'll go heavier barrel ,trigger things like that and ones that are easy to get. mate have you had anything to do with ''Dunlite generators or ''Yamaha'' inverter generators? maybe I should go make a new post for this Anyway gotta go sort this generator stuff before we loose all our tucker, the energy company tinkered with the sub station a year ago and the power goes out now even if it looks like a storm, we lost everything last year not gonna happen again

[Oldbloke]

Mmm, I know sfa about this caper. But just seems to me, considering the time you need to put in as well as cash, just easier to buy a new up market rifle. Say 4 or 5k

[Stix]

Yeah thanks for that Stix but alas another road block , I have to buy a electrical generator first and that will set me back $2,560 and 4-5 mths, but I can still keep looking for info on rifle actions, it doesn't matter that it will be heavy or not the best looking rifle just respectable, accurate , and easy to get bits ie standard brand Remmy, Howa anything that you can take one stock off and bolt another on with out too much trouble . I'll go heavier barrel ,trigger things like that and ones that are easy to get. mate have you had anything to do with ''Dunlite generators or ''Yamaha'' inverter generators? maybe I should go make a new post for this Anyway gotta go sort this generator stuff before we loose all our tucker, the energy company tinkered with the sub station a year ago and the power goes out now even if it looks like a storm, we lost everything last year not gonna happen again

Sorry mate...cant help with gen sets...

Start another thread dedicated for that topic...that way you'll get direct answers from guys who see you need info...

[Member-Deleted]

Yes OB that thought had crossed my mind. But will it be any different to the new ones of today? It would crush me if I done that and it wasn't what I wanted . It's hard to do that as most GS's don't carry that type of rifle and don't get them in unless you order one, BS if you ask me But there is a lot to consider about a build but at the moment the generator takes front seat Cheers

[Member-Deleted]

Yeah Stix probably could but gotta pick one up tomorrow so times short mate

[SCJ429]

Is it a bolt action rifle you want to build Bushy?

[Member-Deleted]

Yes SCJ429 and I probably would even look at a single shot if it come to that , but will keep looking at repeater for now . I want it to be as simple as possible to build but in saying that I don't want it to be a piece of junk that looks pretty and won't shoot it's got to be solid , tough , look reasonable and shoot the eye out of a ferret at 300yds if i'm capable . so its we all want in a rifle but unfortunately the stuff today costs money to get close to that and buying unseen is fraught with being let down if something has to be changed so I thought the build would cost as well but hopefully I would end up with something near to what I wanted it even may cost a little more but its what I want not something I have to put up with because that's the way they make them.

[SCJ429]

If you have the budget, a custom action is a beautiful thing that is a pleasure to shoot like no factory action commonly available. It would be something that will give you satisfaction for a lifetime.

For a factory action, I like the Weatherby Mark 5. The CZ 550 is also a great option.

I am a fan of the Ruger #1 single shot falling block action and have a few. You can buy one chambered in 222 and rebarrel it in 500 Asquare if you want. Only the extractor and barrel need to be changed. They are one of the strongest actions around and look great.

[marksman]

oops, i've been corrected
there are lots of variants in the range of mauser contract /millitary rifles but, which can be a trap . small ring , large ring, intermediate action (turk, argentine), m48 yugo , k98 . i was sure i had read somewhere that the zastava had subtle differences to the k98 . i read recently that some parker hales had 1903 springfield bolts modified to fit in parker's surplus mauser actions . the early parker hales have a good reputation, some are reworked ww2 surplus mausers, later ones were built on spanish commercial mauser actions . of coarse for magnum cases a modified p14 would be interesting, no worries about action strength on a winchester/remington made action. p14/m17 are massivly over enginered .:

a bit more to add to what you have written BR

l have already given you the subtle differences to the k98 that zastava has
the parker hale made rifle with the springfield bolt is the budget made midland with push feed, not a true mauser or parker hale
a lot of actions used by parker hale were zastava made mark x finished by parker hale to a better quality finish

l think the action strength would actually be negligible between the m98 and p14/m17, the differences would have nothing to do with action strength
Jeffery's used the Mauser ’98 as the foundation for their .404 Jeffrey and even the .500 Jeffrey, which was built on the standard Mauser ’98 action
what else can l say
it would be more about a personal preference between them eg..
do you want a rifle that is cock on close or cock on open

the zastava actions are worth doing a build on lMHO and l probably will do it myself after my next build

l made a promise that l will be breaking again, this is my last build, when will l learn bugger

the zastava is available new, is already in the cal, has the mag oal, the whole rifle new will cost $1200 brand new, then just shoot out the barrel playing while saving up for a new heaver barrel, some of the zastava timber stocks are a work of art, truly something to see but l can get a new stock for the zasty
very cheap good looking good shooting custom the zastava is made to shoot at 300wm psi
https://protactical.com.au/browse-produ ... hts-3-shot

anyway l have dreamt of doing this for a long time and have done the homework
the easy way is the howa but l myself would prefer a mauser, so there l've talked myself into it again

here is a sample of the actions that come up occasionally magnum and new at $500, the reason l dont own this one is it is advertised as a lefty
http://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/66190 ... _only.html

[Member-Deleted]

Thanks SCJ429 and marksman looks like there's a few to choose from .

[MrSavage]

Before an action, you need to decide what kind of shooting you want to do and at what ranges.
What kind of accuracy you want, what cartridge and projectile weight.

This will tell you the action size, the barrel length and the rifling twist.

Once you decide the size it's going to narrow the field especially if you want it magazine fed.

I wouldn't go with an old action. Modern actions made on CNC machines are so much better.

I have got an older action that I had trued and it can shoot under 2" at 500m but next time I'd get a full custom action. They feel better, are more accurate and aren't that much dearer.

If you are going to the trouble of doing this then make something that is awesome. It's going to last forever.

There are a lot of choices out there.

If you want a variety of drop in stock options then you could consider a bat 700 clone.

[SCJ429]

What rifle are you using that is shooting two inches at 500, and what caliber is it? That is some fine shooting.

[in2anity]

What rifle are you using that is shooting two inches at 500, and what caliber is it? That is some fine shooting.

My thoughts exactly. And what more could you hope for with a “new” action?

[Die Judicii]

GDB,
I just thought, maybe with all the talk about which brand, which caliber, which barrel etc etc
And of course the cost of it all.

The thought that crossed my mind was that everything has been put to you back to front.

Maybe the 1st port of call should be,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, "Wallet Wizard"

[Member-Deleted]

I think i'll need more than a wizard at the moment DJ more like a miracle

[MrSavage]

What rifle are you using that is shooting two inches at 500, and what caliber is it? That is some fine shooting.

It's an old savage long action flat back from the 90s.
I had the Lee trengove trim up the lugs etc and put an after market bolt head on it as well as a bigger recoil lug.
Maddco 30" 1:8 7mm barrel.

It's bedded in a steel stock and used for fly shoot using 284 Winchester.

It's up there with the full customs but can't best them.

Last week I shot a 2.5" group but the best group was 0.75"
That is what a full custom rifle can do.

You guys never mention savage but I've seen some remarkable groups shot by factory savages, the new competition ones with no work done to them.

[marksman]

"You guys never mention savage but I've seen some remarkable groups shot by factory savages, the new competition ones with no work done to them."

theres nothing wrong with the savages they shoot and the competition ones are really made for competition