Modest custom build thoughs and suggestions

[mikejay]

Hi Guys,

I'm planning out a 223 build based around a Remington 700 action, here's my wish list, does anyone see a problem here.
Note! It's only ever going to be used in benchrest shooting so yeah I know it's going to be heavy

REMINGTON 700 - ACTION ONLY WITH BOLT & X MARK PRO ADJUSTABLE TRIGGER


IBI STAINLESS STEEL 5R - MATCH GRADE BARREL 27" IN LENGTH BULL-MANN PROFILE 1.25" STRAIGHT THROUGH 1 IN 12 TWIST


MDT XRS CHASSIS SYSTEM SUPPLIED WITH TWO HAND GRIPS ONE VERTICAL & ONE ANGLED STANDARD


MDT POLYMER 10 SHOT MAGAZINE

[SCJ429]

A new Remington action needs some work to get them trued and you will end up replacing the standard trigger as it is not much to write home about. You can get an Ultimatum custom action from a popular QLD fun shop for $599. This would be a much better place to start.

If this is not an option, then I would suggest using a Howa or Tikki action for your build. They make chassis to suit and both are proven actions.

[mikejay]

A new Remington action needs some work to get them trued and you will end up replacing the standard trigger as it is not much to write home about. You can get an Ultimatum custom action from a popular QLD fun shop for $599. This would be a much better place to start.

If this is not an option, then I would suggest using a Howa or Tikki action for your build. They make chassis to suit and both are proven actions.

Looked at the ultimatum, that model is superseded, it was so full of problems the company gave anyone with that model a free upgrade to the next model which costs just under $2k AUD, the offer is over, what is for sale here is just a way to offload dead stock to us provincials. You'd have to be mental to buy that one is what I've read. The model is the Ultimatum U300, it's not for sale on Ultimatum's site any more because of the problems.

Truing up an original current and new Rem action, IF necessary at all, is relatively cheap. The IF part comes from one of AU's best gunsmiths

[in2anity]

Hi mikejay - not so long ago I built a custom 223 using an old Howa walnut donor, (an old shot-out 204). It received a 1:9 heavy varmint barrel (cut to 22") and bedding job. The old Howa walnut is suprisingly heavy, but wide and dense, which was perfect for a thicker barrel contour.

I also swapped the trigger (for target shooting). I like a crisp single stage (which the howa trigger is not). Initially I tried a Jard trigger, but I was far too light for field positional. I experimented with a variety of springs which brought it back up into an acceptable region, but it still wasn’t super crisp. Ultimately I swapped the Jard for a Timney, and haven’t looked back. I also added the Lucky 13 conversion kit, because 10-shot mags are a must for the rapid and snap details. Feeds beautifully.

Without exaggerating, the gun is capable of grouping pretty much anything I feed it into 1/2-3/4 moa consistently, which is better than what I can do from the sling. I generally stick to the 69gr SMKs, out to 400m with great success.

It's a heavy thing - certainly not a carry gun - but just right for its application on the mound

I looked at Remington donors but that are not better than Howas, and they are much pricier.

Custom Howa 223 target build

howa_small.jpg (2.86 MiB) Viewed 5986 times

[SCJ429]

I know a few guys who bought the Ultimatium action from Brisbane, I think they are version 4. None had the heavy bolt lift problem. They do have the Savage barrel threads and can be used with a barrel nut.

Who is your gunsmith? John Giles? How much did they quote to true up a Remington action? What did he say about the Ultimation action or using a different action?

[MJW380]

Got a mate who saw those actions, and for the price thought it was a good buy. Then he did a bit of research and found a heap of really negative reviews on the webby. They’re even advertised as having a rem 700 footprint when they require a lot of fitting to make work. If the company that makes them realise it is a dodgy product and go right back to the drawing board, I find it a little bit more that slightly iffy to sell them to a market that they’re hoping don’t know about the issues. Mate sent it back to the big Qld shop and they didn’t even argue, because of the known problems.

[MJW380]

Back to your build MJ, probably make more sense to go a 1-9 or 1-8 barrel rather then the 1-12, to stabilise heavier projectiles?

[marksman]

"Truing up an original current and new Rem action, IF necessary at all, is relatively cheap. The IF part comes from one of AU's best gunsmiths"

yet l've had what l call one of AU's best gunsmiths tell me the rem action is hand finished so does need work to be true
what he's see's is that 1 in 10 rem factory actions may be worth building a bench rifle off

do not get sucked into salesman talk

l agree with the 1 in 7 or 1 in 8" twist barrel for heavy projectiles, a 27' bull barrel is fine for a bench rifle but l'm not sure about a chassis and polymer mags for a bench rifle and maybe look at getting the firing pin hole bushed when you look at truing the action
l dont know why you would bother with an x mark pro trigger after all the bad press it has had if your serious get a jewel

really it doesn't matter what l think but this is what l think about what you have described, you do it how you want
good luck with it

[mikejay]

Good feedback guys,

So revised, and a question at the end

REMINGTON 700 - ACTION ONLY WITH BOLT & X MARK PRO ADJUSTABLE TRIGGER (Truing job, drop the trigger and put in a Timney)
IBI STAINLESS STEEL 5R - MATCH GRADE BARREL 27" IN LENGTH BULL-MANN PROFILE 1.25" STRAIGHT THROUGH 1 IN 8 TWIST
MDT XRS CHASSIS SYSTEM SUPPLIED WITH TWO HAND GRIPS ONE VERTICAL & ONE ANGLED STANDARD (it has an aluminium skeleton and v block for the action so bedding not required or needs a skim job at the most)
Metal 10 shot magazine of some description

Now for the question, shooting distance is primarily going to be 50-100m off a benchrest so what would your thought be on accuracy comparison of the above vs a;


LA102 CROSSOVER BURNT BRONZE EDITION in .223
BLACK CERAKOTED FINISH
THREADED MUZZLE
PIC RAIL
22" BARREL (1 in 9 twist)
MDT ESS CHASSIS SYSTEM
WITH 15" FOREND
FULL BURNT BRONZE CERAKOTE FINISH
TARGET ADJUSTABLE STOCK
MDT GRIP
MDT 10 SHOT MAGAZINE

[in2anity]

If you are 100% guaranteed to be shooting under 400m, IMO a 1:7 or 1:8 is too tight. Get slower and shoot lighter pills.

[mikejay]

If you are 100% guaranteed to be shooting under 400m, IMO a 1:7 or 1:8 is too tight. Get slower and shoot lighter pills.

And that's why I originally thought a 1:12 for shooting 55 gr at 50-100m. I don't know anything but would like the most accuracy I can at those distances.

Currently shooting a Ruger Precision Rimfire in 22LR with an IBI Match grade barrel, the thing is amazing. shoots .5 MOA at 50m with about 80% consistency.

[Sergeant Hartman]

I am going to have a look at the ibi barrels. The price they seem like a good cheap option.

[SCJ429]

For 100 metres you want to shoot projectiles 62 grains or lighter. A 1:14 twist barrel should be plenty.

[SCJ429]

You would probably find the Lithgow shoots very well and the difference between it and a custom build would come down to your loading skills.

[in2anity]

You would probably find the Lithgow shoots very well and the difference between it and a custom build would come down to your loading skills.

Yeah this ^

Like-for-like, you'd be doing well to differentiate between a 1:12 and a 1:9 shooting approx 60gr. And the 1:9 gives you more options to go up to a longer 70gr down the track.

Still, if your requirements are extremely well defined (which suit a 1:12) - mate there's nuthin wrong with the 1:12 shooting 55grners. They'll shoot lights out to 200m, and beyond, they just are a bit more volatile on a windy day...

Your decision ultimately MJ

[MJW380]

Hey MJ, did the IBI take much fitting to the Ruger Precision Rimfire? How much approx did it cost to fit?

[mikejay]

Hey MJ, did the IBI take much fitting to the Ruger Precision Rimfire? How much approx did it cost to fit?

It's my brother's RPRimfire. It was a drop in, no smith needed other than to receive it from the seller.
We did have to make a block to hold the action in a vise to turn the barrel nut but it was really easy to make out of wood with a wood drill bit and handsaw.



The name of the seller seems to have escaped me.

RUGER PRECISION RIMFIRE 22" NEW $549
RUGER PRECISION RIMFIRE 22" FLUTED NEW $699

[straightshooter]

Looked at the ultimatum, that model is superseded, it was so full of problems the company gave anyone with that model a free upgrade to the next model which costs just under $2k AUD, the offer is over, what is for sale here is just a way to offload dead stock to us provincials. You'd have to be mental to buy that one is what I've read. The model is the Ultimatum U300, it's not for sale on Ultimatum's site any more because of the problems.

I am curious.
What are the problems with the U300?
They must be pretty dramatic for the manufacturer to give a free upgrade to a new replacement action.

[mikejay]

I am curious.
What are the problems with the U300?
They must be pretty dramatic for the manufacturer to give a free upgrade to a new replacement action.

No idea, here's the text from an article I found;

Ultimatum Precision announced the company was halting all production of the U300 bolt action. The U300 action is shown above.

According to a press release published on The Shooting Wire, the company’s CEO, Christopher Ng, decided to end the U300 action in favor of developing a new Deadline bolt action that will offer a number of enhancements. The press release stated that Ng, who began with the company earlier this year, recognized “some obvious shortfalls…in the action.”

The new Deadline action will offer a number of new enhancements. These are just a few:

compatibility with custom handloads
the use of twin ejectors
compatibility with double stack magazines
additional real estate for mounting scopes
Ultimate Precision will offer a full refund to anyone who has deposited money on the U300. Additionally, these shooters will have the opportunity to buy a Deadline at a “special price” when they become available.

According to the company’s website, a U300 replacement – presumably the Deadline – will be replaced by a new model that should be ready in the fall of this year.

The U300 had a retail price of $998 – $1,098 depending on options. No word on pricing of the new action. I would expect it to be in the same neighborhood, but the company may have to increase costs due to the additional R&D.

It took some effort but I found the Press release in question;

https://www.shootingwire.com/story/406324

It says very little as to why but I'd imagine it was pretty bad for them to discontinue it and offer a refund or replacement

[MJW380]

Hey MJ, do the profit barrels need headspacing at all, or purely change barrels and tighten the barrel nut up?

[DJay]

MJW380 it was a straight Drop in, no need to worry abiut headspace as its basically machined in. So yeah, change barrel, tighten the nut and your good to go. We did check case rim expansion on fired cases to make sure and they are good at 0.043 if I remember correctly

The only way to adjust headspace would be to shim it, ibi has confirmed to me they haven't had to do that with the RPRR and I didn't need to. I have heard that the Tikka one may need it sometimes.

[SCJ429]

Would this save you a bit of stuffing around.

https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=168824

[TassieTiger]

Am I the only one who - when I click on all the posted up used gun links - get nothing but the home page?

[Sergeant Hartman]

If you are using your phone or tablet, one the page open up, goto your app and change to desktop mode.

It comes good, unless ofcourse the rifle had been sold

[SCJ429]

Sorry Tassie, it is a Remington action chambered in 20 Practical in a chassis.

[in2anity]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those links come from something other than a handheld. Yet handhelds are automatically re-routed to the "mobile" flavor of usedguns, where the desktop link doesn't stick. If you can be bothered, best to paste both variants of the link such as:

https://m.usedguns.com.au/Product_Desc.aspx?Pid=168824
https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=168824

FWIW you can verify the mobile links in your browser before you post.

Alternatively, the mobile URLs can be hand crafted; just change the desktop URL like this: www -> m, Product -> Product_Desc, p -> Pid

[MJW380]

Thanks Djay, you’ve talked me into one. Well, that’s if I’m not happy with the factory barrel accuracy. Haven’t even shot it yet, and mightn’t for a while with all the covid stuff going on

[TassieTiger]

If you are using your phone or tablet, one the page open up, goto your app and change to desktop mode.

It comes good, unless ofcourse the rifle had been sold

Cheers Z - that worked