Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action, self loading rifles and other miscellaneous longarms.

Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by lukeh » 19 May 2020, 7:05 pm

Hi all,

I currently have a cat A & B license in NSW and am looking to pick up a pump-action rifle for target shooting.

I was leaning towards the venerable Remington 7615 when I came across the Wedgetail Industries MPR308 rifle and thought it looked well put together.

https://wedgetailindustries.com/product ... ion-rifle/

I'd like to ask if anyone here knows whether this rifle would be legal in NSW? The calibre and action should not be an issue, but I'm aware that since it looks like an AR it might be at risk of being reclassified under the appearance laws?

I've contacted the manufacturer and they asked me to try to get a PTA. To be honest, I don't totally understand what they meant by this. I have a PTA which came in the mail for that class of rifle (non self-loading centrefire), but they made it seem like I should have submitted a PTA for that rifle (Make and model) specifically?

Sorry If this is a novice question, but this will be my first time buying a firearm in Australia. I've also reached out to the police firearms service for classification.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
lukeh
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 3
New South Wales

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by bladeracer » 19 May 2020, 8:07 pm

While a PtA is a good indication, I wouldn't take it as a guarantee. The authorities have proved numerous times that buying a firearm via all the legal requirements will not stop them from changing their minds next week and sending Police to seize your legally-owned firearm. Wedgetail know this for certain.
Send a link to the exact firearm you want to buy to the Registry and get a response in writing. Not that it'll make any difference, if they tell you it's fine, then decide after giving you a PtA that it actually isn't.

lukeh wrote:Hi all,

I currently have a cat A & B license in NSW and am looking to pick up a pump-action rifle for target shooting.

I was leaning towards the venerable Remington 7615 when I came across the Wedgetail Industries MPR308 rifle and thought it looked well put together.

https://wedgetailindustries.com/product ... ion-rifle/

I'd like to ask if anyone here knows whether this rifle would be legal in NSW? The calibre and action should not be an issue, but I'm aware that since it looks like an AR it might be at risk of being reclassified under the appearance laws?

I've contacted the manufacturer and they asked me to try to get a PTA. To be honest, I don't totally understand what they meant by this. I have a PTA which came in the mail for that class of rifle (non self-loading centrefire), but they made it seem like I should have submitted a PTA for that rifle (Make and model) specifically?

Sorry If this is a novice question, but this will be my first time buying a firearm in Australia. I've also reached out to the police firearms service for classification.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by Archie » 19 May 2020, 8:32 pm

I’m going to leave aside for a moment why you’d want a pump for target shooting (I’m guessing what you mean is, not hunting - ie not actual target shooting discipline but shooting at targets not animals? - anyway doesn’t really matter).

So when you get a PTA in NSW you can either - in 99% of cases - just specify the category you want it for, or, what sometimes happens is you go into your local shop and say, can I buy that Remchester left handed single-shot in 11x82 Czech and they put that on the PTA for you and its specified down the last detail and there you are. Otherwise you could have come in with a PTA from the registry saying “Cat B centre fire” and you could have gone home with that rifle, but also any other rifle in that category you chose instead after you’d had second thoughts.

So I’m going to take a punt here and I could well be wrong. They want you to go an get a PTA because they probably think that it’ll run afoul of the NSW appearance laws just like the Warwick straight pull did. But they don’t want to ask the registry themselves if that’s the case because they know if they ask as the manufacturer, a knock back is basically guaranteed. On the other hand if you ask, odds are nobody will even check. And it does get harder for the registry to change their minds if they’ve issued enough permits for them and then found out they probably wouldn’t have if they’d thought about it. It means they have to admit they don’t have any idea what you were buying in the first place. Embarrassing.

If I were you, if you really want one, i’d go and get your PTA for it. Specify it on the form. Then I’d get a local shop to order it in for you - you’d need to do that anyway as it needs to be transferred to you by a NSW dealer. If they wont, then I’d be worried. Ask the manufacturer what retailers they deal with in NSW also.
Archie
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 366
New South Wales

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by Archie » 19 May 2020, 8:45 pm

Incidentally if that works, post it here because they look pretty cool and I wouldn’t mind getting one myself
Archie
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 366
New South Wales

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by Medb » 20 May 2020, 12:05 am

The waiting list for those Wedgetail rifles is years long and moves extremely slowly, if you aren't already on it and don't have any industry connections you'll probably be waiting a long time. They always talk about ramping up production and getting a big batch out the door and shipped to people but I'm not sure how true that is.

I was on the list for over a year, and they basically just stopped replying to any emails. I did actually manage to finally obtain one on the second hand market (only one I've ever seen advertised for sale and I check all the sites daily.) It's serial # is less than #20 and it is a second gen model with the MLOK handguard. The fellow I bought it from was only able to get it through industry connections since one of his family members runs a dealership.
Medb
Private
Private
 
Posts: 63
Queensland

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by bladeracer » 20 May 2020, 12:22 am

Medb wrote:The waiting list for those Wedgetail rifles is years long and moves extremely slowly, if you aren't already on it and don't have any industry connections you'll probably be waiting a long time. They always talk about ramping up production and getting a big batch out the door and shipped to people but I'm not sure how true that is.

I was on the list for over a year, and they basically just stopped replying to any emails. I did actually manage to finally obtain one on the second hand market (only one I've ever seen advertised for sale and I check all the sites daily.) It's serial # is less than #20 and it is a second gen model with the MLOK handguard. The fellow I bought it from was only able to get it through industry connections since one of his family members runs a dealership.


The Yarra Sheila might be a similar saga, been on that list for at least two years now.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by AussieCapitalist » 20 May 2020, 11:10 am

Does NSW distinguish between straight pull and bolt? In QLD a "straight pull" is a bolt action in legal terms because you are pulling a bolt regardless of the direction. .

The Warwick is banned in NSW so surely the wedge tail will be too.

If you lads recall the WT15 made by wedge tail is classed as a pistol in QLD. There is an ongoing court case about it because the jacks want to make it cat D.

https://shootersdelight.com.au/product/ ... t-10-shot/
AussieCapitalist
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 525
Queensland

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by Archie » 20 May 2020, 11:50 am

AussieCapitalist wrote:Does NSW distinguish between straight pull and bolt?


No. From memory the distinction is between semiautomatic and not, rather than different types of not. Again from memory, semiautomatic is defined as being able to fire again without another user manipulation other than pulling the trigger, which is why the Vernon-Carrey speedlines are ok because they are a spring loaded straight pull action where you need to flick a lever to actuate mechanism. Don’t quote me on that though.

The issue here, if there is one, will be appearance laws.
Archie
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 366
New South Wales

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by AussieCapitalist » 20 May 2020, 12:33 pm

Archie wrote:No. From memory the distinction is between semiautomatic and not, rather than different types of not. Again from memory, semiautomatic is defined as being able to fire again without another user manipulation other than pulling the trigger, which is why the Vernon-Carrey speedlines are ok because they are a spring loaded straight pull action where you need to flick a lever to actuate mechanism. Don’t quote me on that though.

The issue here, if there is one, will be appearance laws.


Yeah OK. So the Warwick is purely banned in NSW because of appearance then? It is just a bolt action centrefire rifle the same as any other.
Vernon-Carrey speedlines are lever actions in QLD so just your normal Cat B.
AussieCapitalist
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 525
Queensland

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by simmo » 21 May 2020, 7:50 am

The level of competence and efficiency on Display withIn NSW FAR is low at best and completely non-existent at worst.

What this means is it Play out like this....

It would be a reasonable request for advice from NSWPOL FAR by the OP that would take 3mths.

Their response would be ambiguous with a reference to part of regulation banning things in appearance that effectively leaves it up to you to decide; they won’t say yes or no.

You’ll go on to the wait list (insert waiting time here) put in the request for a Non-selfloading Center fire PTA, it will be approved (pending checks etc.) you’ll order the rifle and it will arrive ( It’s Been probably 12mths by this stage based on indicated waiting in other posts). 6mths after that a few of these have been sold in NSW and they are being enjoyed By LAFOs for hunting and or target shooting.

At tat point some muppet at the registry will see a picture of one of these and shriek thinking it’s an AR15 or looks enough like one that it must be banned.

This is exactly what happened with DTA rifles and the WFA1 in NSW. A predictable and sad process because the police force and it’s Registry are allowed to write badly drafted regulations.
simmo
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 107
New South Wales

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by AussieCapitalist » 21 May 2020, 8:55 am

The worst of all mate is folding stocks. NSW banning them makes zero sense. Good luck concealing a ruger precision 338 lapua. It is 42 inches long when folded and nearly 20 pounds kitted out. Barely fits in the boot of your car let alone under your trench coat as the idiots who write the laws must think.

I dont understand appearance laws but I really dont understand folding stock bans. I can stand on the QLD side of the border with my folding stock no dramas but the second I cross the border instant jail because a non fixed stock is the end of the world. :allegedly: .
AussieCapitalist
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 525
Queensland

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by linkoln » 21 May 2020, 12:11 pm

AussieCapitalist wrote:I dont understand appearance laws but I really dont understand folding stock bans. I can stand on the QLD side of the border with my folding stock no dramas but the second I cross the border instant jail because a non fixed stock is the end of the world. :allegedly: .

Australian law is purposely left vague so it can be left up to the interpretation later on if the authorities think you have done something wrong.
The smart thing to do would be to make a law that specifies the rifle must be this long and if it has a folding stock then something else applies but they will never do that it will always have some loop hole.
linkoln
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 166
-

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by TassieTiger » 21 May 2020, 12:29 pm

Prohibited firearms are described in Schedule 1 of the Firearms Act 1996, as follows:

Any machine gun, submachine gun or other firearm capable of propelling projectiles in rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger.
Any self-loading rim-fire rifle.
Any self-loading centre-fire rifle.
Any self-loading shotgun.
Any pump action shotgun.
Any firearm that substantially duplicates in appearance a firearm referred to in item 1.
Any firearm to which there is attached any article or device capable of muffling, reducing or stopping the noise created by firing the firearm.
A pistol that is of a reduced or an abridged size.
Any firearm or part of a firearm which has a dimension less than the prescribed minimum dimension.
A prohibited pistol.
Any ex-military firearm that is a firearm in relation to which a firearm licence may not be issued.
Any ordnance.
A person may not possess or use a firearm of the kind described in Schedule 1, unless its possession or use is otherwise expressly provided for within Firearms Act 1996.

So appearance laws in this case (Tas) means that any firearm that looks like a fire arms that could propel projectiles in rapid succession - is prohibited based on interpretation of its looks... :D :drinks: :D
It’s so stupid it’s laughable.

Now add in the fact that I called registry in this state before I bought a MDT LSS chassis and was told that - the purchase of a rifle chassis is not illegal nor are they prohibited.
Again - they would not commit...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by AussieCapitalist » 21 May 2020, 2:36 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Prohibited firearms are described in Schedule 1 of the Firearms Act 1996, as follows:

Any machine gun, submachine gun or other firearm capable of propelling projectiles in rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger.
Any self-loading rim-fire rifle.
Any self-loading centre-fire rifle.
Any self-loading shotgun.
Any pump action shotgun.
Any firearm that substantially duplicates in appearance a firearm referred to in item 1.
Any firearm to which there is attached any article or device capable of muffling, reducing or stopping the noise created by firing the firearm.
A pistol that is of a reduced or an abridged size.
Any firearm or part of a firearm which has a dimension less than the prescribed minimum dimension.
A prohibited pistol.
Any ex-military firearm that is a firearm in relation to which a firearm licence may not be issued.
Any ordnance.
A person may not possess or use a firearm of the kind described in Schedule 1, unless its possession or use is otherwise expressly provided for within Firearms Act 1996.

So appearance laws in this case (Tas) means that any firearm that looks like a fire arms that could propel projectiles in rapid succession - is prohibited based on interpretation of its looks... :D :drinks: :D
It’s so stupid it’s laughable.

Now add in the fact that I called registry in this state before I bought a MDT LSS chassis and was told that - the purchase of a rifle chassis is not illegal nor are they prohibited.
Again - they would not commit...


So is there a a so called loophole to be had here. What if two pressures of the trigger are needed? The first one does nothing and the second fires. :D
AussieCapitalist
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 525
Queensland

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by TassieTiger » 21 May 2020, 3:55 pm

They’d charge you saying - “well it was the intent of the law to rule out semis...”
Then you could turn around and say, is it also the laws intent to not be definitive re various firearm aspects and leave easily defineable parameters open to interpretation, so the legal blood worms of the legal fraternity can continue to run a self sustaining business model that includes prosecution departments who effectively write their own overtime based on these in definite rules...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by lukeh » 21 May 2020, 5:52 pm

Thanks very much for all of the insight and help you've offered all. I'm going to follow through with Archie's recommendation of getting a PTA specifically for this rifle, then going through a dealer to order one. I'll be sure to post updates as I go!
lukeh
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 3
New South Wales

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by TassieTiger » 22 May 2020, 5:24 am

AussieCapitalist wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:Prohibited firearms are described in Schedule 1 of the Firearms Act 1996, as follows:

Any machine gun, submachine gun or other firearm capable of propelling projectiles in rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger.
Any self-loading rim-fire rifle.
Any self-loading centre-fire rifle.
Any self-loading shotgun.
Any pump action shotgun.
Any firearm that substantially duplicates in appearance a firearm referred to in item 1.
Any firearm to which there is attached any article or device capable of muffling, reducing or stopping the noise created by firing the firearm.
A pistol that is of a reduced or an abridged size.
Any firearm or part of a firearm which has a dimension less than the prescribed minimum dimension.
A prohibited pistol.
Any ex-military firearm that is a firearm in relation to which a firearm licence may not be issued.
Any ordnance.
A person may not possess or use a firearm of the kind described in Schedule 1, unless its possession or use is otherwise expressly provided for within Firearms Act 1996.

So appearance laws in this case (Tas) means that any firearm that looks like a fire arms that could propel projectiles in rapid succession - is prohibited based on interpretation of its looks... :D :drinks: :D
It’s so stupid it’s laughable.

Now add in the fact that I called registry in this state before I bought a MDT LSS chassis and was told that - the purchase of a rifle chassis is not illegal nor are they prohibited.
Again - they would not commit...


So is there a a so called loophole to be had here. What if two pressures of the trigger are needed? The first one does nothing and the second fires. :D


The Tas police have gone on record as saying ; “gel blasters generally mimick in appearance, those firearms in schedule 1, therefore they would be illegal” - so I can only assume that if you bought a gel blaster and then mangled the appearance as to not mimick anything in schedule 1, then you’d be okay...maybe if you removed the outer covering and just had the internal operating parts lol.

But I digress. A friend pulled a pistol on me tonight (didn’t point it at me, just near me) - one I never knew he owned because he doesnt have a cat H...it turns out it was a training pistol made of plastic and very laughable after the fact. Now for all the crap we hang on appearance laws, for an instant, I did not have a clue if it was real or not - I wonder where training items sit with appearance laws ? - it’s a murky position...but at the end of the day, it’s still an insane law - it doesn’t matter what firearm is being pointed, they are all dangerous in the wrong hands.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by bladeracer » 22 May 2020, 5:31 am

Blue Guns are legal in Victoria still, as long as you don't do anything to make them look real, like painting them.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by bladeracer » 22 May 2020, 6:46 am

The murkiness is unnecessary and should never have made it into law.

If somebody tries to threaten somebody claiming _anything_ is a weapon then they get to wear the consequences of their threats. The rest of society that is not threatening people should not be restricted from carrying whatever they like, wherever they like.

I follow a few sites that monitor police shootings and such. Arseholes pull a gun and try to kill LEO's and other innocent people, then cry like they're hard done by when somebody defends themselves with equal force.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Wedgetail MPR308 Pump Action Rifle in NSW

Post by SAnewb85 » 11 Jul 2020, 8:50 am

Absolutely correct bladeracer.

If it looks like a gun that youre pointing, you will be treated as if you are in fact pointing a gun until it can be confirmed either way.

Usually by way of picking up said item off of a Swiss cheesed corpse.

Anyone who points a replica at someone is a moron, anyone who expects the police to differentiate between real or fake, bolt or semi auto when they're staring down the barrel is equally stupid.

A deadly threat is exactly that, and should be dealt with accordingly.
SAnewb85
Private
Private
 
Posts: 62
South Australia


Back to top
 
Return to Centerfire rifles