303-25 and .308 Winchester

[barbender]

Hi All, just an intro as it is my first post, I have been shooting and reloading since I was 13 years old, if the maths works out that was 1969.

1. 303-25 I love this caliber, I have 2 rifles chambered a re-barrelled SMLE and a re barrelled P14. The P14 is a 100 yard tack holer,clover leafing on the target,the SMLE not to far behind 10 to 15 mm. The 6.5 cal is starting to interest me should I upgrade to 6.5 Cal, also any comments on the .25 WSSM, 257 Roberts or even a rechamber to 303-25 Improved for the P14. (I'm not interested in the Creedmore).

2. I recently purchased an old Savage Model 99A in .308 Winchester, the barrel in great condition, I have a Weaver 2.5 to 7 wide view scope to go on, thoughts of this combination as a deer rifle.

Regards to all, let's protect our sport

[SCJ429]

Why mess with a rifle that is shooting well?

I don't think you would be under gunned with a 308 if you were hunting the biggest deer in Australia at reasonable distances.

[in2anity]

Hi barbender. If you have an Enfield that is genuinely and consistently "clover leafing" I also would not be touching it. For many service shooters, making their old battle rifles consistently group into moa or better is mostly a pipe dream. Even if they do mechanically print as such, it's another thing altogether to realise that sort of accuracy on the mound - at the very least, you need some pretty fancy sights to do it, not to mention the immense amount of experience to make it to master grade (the ones who can actually push their rifles to their limits). Different story of course if you are running a scope on your guns, and tend to shoot off some kind of mechanical aid. I guess it really boils down to how you intend on using it.

223 conversions are popular in service, and accurate. You often see very close to perfect scores by masters with custom 223s, even on the 300m line, so the 6.5 won't offer a big advantage within 300m, even 400m. Beter to go with a smaller, more economical/efficient cartridge IMHO. Allegadly the 6.5 starts to shine approaching 1000m - but from an Enfield out to 500m, all things equal I bet you couldn't spot the difference between a 7.62 and a 6.5

W.R.T the Savage 99 - very interesting old gun, way ahead of its time. Flush magazine perfect for stalking. Convinient to handload spires etc. They are prone to wander though, if you are punching paper. A very tightly fitted forend plays havoc to the harmonics as the barrel heats. The Savage 99 is fairly heavily covered in the book "Accurizing the Factory Rifle" by "Mic" McPherson, whereby one can RTV silicone bed the forend to make them better range guns. But gettting back to your question, mate, just about the perfect hunting rifle IMO. 308 a no brainer for hunting, both figuratively and physically
I'd buy one if they were still being made.

Cheers,
In2.

[barbender]

Hi Guys,
thanks for the replies, well I won't touch the P14, after consideration of the comments - because it is a tack holer, the SMLE I might (maybe) re chamber for 303-25 improved just for an exercise (in futility perhaps.) When I purchased the P14 around 1978-79 it was fitted with a cheap Jap scope, 6x fixed, it still has the same scope fixed today. Interestingly enough I think the early Japanese scopes were very well made. Regarding the Savage 99A in .308 for deer shooting, my wife says I always "over engineer", in a previous deer shooting life I had a Mauser Colombian Carbine in 30.06 and I hand loaded 220 Grain Hornady round nose projectiles, I found this to be an excellent close range Deer rifle to about 120 meters with open sights - too much recoil too much boom!, any comments please !!!!

[SCJ429]

The improved 303 case with 35 degree shoulders would look pretty cool and has some practical advantages as well. I have done a few AI to boring cases like the 223 and 243.

I also like old case designs and use a 450/400 Jeffery for a bit of pig and deer hunting. As you say, a bit of over engineering never hurts.

[in2anity]

Yeah mate I concur, butcher the SMLE before the P14 beauty. SMLEs are still (relatively) accesible. The 303-25 is rather like the 243 - my uncle had one growing up. He always used to complain about over-penetration with it when hunting though.

Those old jap scopes sure are good, decent glass on em - my old marlin wore one for years before i could afford to upgrade - they'll put meat in the freezer, and obviously a helluva lot easier than the old dovetails. I remember upgrading to the (old Jap) scope from irons and being so blown away by how much easier hunting was

FWIW I use a light 125gr pill over a fast powder like 2207 in my 308 these days; almost exclusively for the reduced recoil. With those loads, I can start to see the fall of my shot pretty well by 300m through the glass - good for correcting on those windy days on the mound. Nevertheless my 308 is a bit of safe-queen, it was more a high power silhoute rifle and those dreams are dashed since kids - give me a 223 for local 3-p comp any day .