The Howa Polymer Stock. Are they good?

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Hey guys

I hope that everyone is well

I have decided to buy a Howa
I have put a deposit on it today
(Howa - Model 1500 - in 223 - Varmint - Heavy Barrel - Mini Action - Polymer Stock)
https://www.osaaustralia.com.au/product ... vy-barrel/

The reason why I chose the "mini action" over the "short action" is because:
1) The mini action comes with a 20" barrel
(I prefer the 20" barrel over the 24" barrel)
2) The mini action already comes with a detachable 10 round magazine as standard
(Which is pleasant to me, I prefer the detachable magazine over the in built ones and it's pleasant that it already comes with it in the mini action package)

So everything sounds good

However....
I think I read in a few places that the "polymer" standard stock that the Howa's come with are not very solid/strong, and that they "flex" or "bend" or something which then decreases accuracy somehow?

Which could be a problem for me, as I do enjoy being as accurate as possible..

However, on the other hand though
I'm only getting the Howa in 223
And there's not that much recoil in the 223's....

So I thought I would ask you guys the question before I finalise my payment and collect the rifle:
If I were to buy the Howa
(Model 1500 - in 223 - Varmint - Heavy Barrel - Mini Action - Polymer stock)

Is it worth it? Or does the polymer stock ruin the accuracy of the rifle to the point where it's just not worth it due to the loss of accuracy?

Thank guys

I find that to be a bit of a tricky one..

[bladeracer]

A polymer stock is very unlikely to be an issue in itself, provided it is properly fitted. It can become an issue if you start applying forces to it when you are shooting, resting the fore end over or against a hard surface or mounting a bipod at the end.

If it does cause problems you can address it by removing material from it to increase the gap between it and the barrel, filling it with resin, epoxy, or body filler to reduce any flex, or mounting the bipod further back from the end.

[Blr243]

Unrelated but every time I see FIREARM ENTUSIAST it reminds me of some advice I forgot to say before , maybe somebody already said it ....... it relates to trying to shoot nice groups at the range with a front bag and no rear bag. I think u will benefit big time from having a rear bag. So u can relax more and be more comfortable as u settle that reticle on your target

[bladeracer]

Unrelated but every time I see FIREARM ENTUSIAST it reminds me of some advice I forgot to say before , maybe somebody already said it ....... it relates to trying to shoot nice groups at the range with a front bag and no rear bag. I think u will benefit big time from having a rear bag. So u can relax more and be more comfortable as u settle that reticle on your target

A rear bag certainly tightens groups, but also reduces shooter input. If you are going to use rear bags in the field then certainly use them at the range. Otherwise keep them for load development, and practice shooting as you plan to in the field.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Bladeracer;
Ah okay
Yeah, I didn’t think the polymer stock would be an issue either
I just read some people saying that it potentially could be an issue
That’s why I thought I’d double check
I don’t think I ever apply any force to the stock either when I shoot to be honest
So I think I should be alright


And awesome
Thanks for the advices BladeRacer
I will see how I go
It’s a pretty good tip, mounting the bipod further back if it ever does become an issue down the track
That’s handy to know



Blr243;
Yeah I don’t know man
I really enjoy shooting without a rear bag
For example, when I manage to shoot a 0.4” group without a rear bag
It makes me feel better knowing that I was able to do that without a rear bag
Knowing that I achieved that group with the maximum amount of shooter input as possible
It’s a good feeling
It's a greater sense of accomplishment to me

[Bill]

I would worry to much about the stock, wrapped some heavy duty sanding paper around a knife sharpening steel and open up the barrel channel first just make it fully free floated.

The stocks having pillar bedding which is a bonus, lighter trigger springs are easy and safe to install yourself. The trigger guy on ebay charges $22 posted and 1.5lb is good weight i reckon, I've tried the 2lb as well but the 1.5lb is the pick.

[Bill]

And if you can find some, try and grab some 55gr Fiocchi ammo, that stuff shot silly small groups in my old Howa mini HB 223.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Awesome
Thanks for your advices Bill
I will keep them in mind!


Yeah
I did read that the 55gr Fiocchi agreed well with the howa
I'll definitely try to get my hands on them if I can!

[TassieTiger]

I have 4 polymer stocked firearms. I prefer them to some degree because I hate damaging gorgeous timber...a tiny bump and that nick in timber is there for all to see forever, on polymer - wipes off lol.

The houge Polymer stock that came with a heavy barrel howa 300 is the only one I’ve felt I needed to replace - and that was because on an unusually hot day last year, I could feel the stock moving. It became soft and malleable. All my others have been fine - and I’m sure if I wanted to, I could have strengthen the original regardless.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

TassieTiger;
Ah okay
Well from what you’re telling me
You’ve only had 1x day where you felt that the Hogue polymer stock has let you down
1x day in the whole year, that’s pretty good
Sounds very reliable to me

And I think I should be alright
Because I will be using my Howa only for target shooting purposes
I will never shoot it in the sun
I will always be under cover whilst shooting it
So the stock shouldn’t get too hot
(as it will never be under direct sunlight)

I think I’ll be right with the Hogue polymer stock then
I hope..
But from what everyone said, I think I'll be right

Thanks for your feedback TassieTiger

[solarpak]

Ahh the old Howa synthetic stock chestnut again,

The Mini action stock on the howa is made by HTI and is actually quite decent. it has alloy pillars and is very well proportioned. My Mini Action in 7.62x39 is fed with Norinco XMIL ammo which i have pulled the bullets and seated in Hornady ZMAX or Sierra Soft Points - and off the bench shoots three shots into half an inch all day long - no issues with stock flex there.

Now tha Howa Hogue stock - i have owned quite a few (>10) howa rifles with the Hogue stock and have never found flexing an issue - when using the rifle as a general hunting rig. The barrels always free-floated and yes if you push the stock with your hand it will touch the barrel - of course it will. Dont forget this stock is a $100 hunting one - and not intended to be a long range or benchrest unit.

So the HTI mini action is great - lightweight and does the job very well . My Mini action 7.62x39 scoped weighs around 3.57kg and an ideal stalking rifle for shots out to 200m .

C.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Solarpak;
Awesome
Thank you so much for your feedback man
It’s great to hear that you managed to shoot 3x shot groups into 0.5” all day long with your Howa mini-action
That's fantastic
So accurate
So consistent
Perfect.
That gives me great reassurance that I definitely made the right decision with my purchase

Like I said you know
Everything seemed great about the Howa to me
I heard nothing but amazing things about the Howa
My only potential concern that I heard about the Howa was the “flex” that some people seem to have gotten with the standard stock
But from what you’re saying
I think I should be right
(Especially since I’m only getting it in the 223 calibre anyway so not much recoil)

Awesome
Cool
I think I should be right
I will let you know how I go
Thanks again for your feedback!

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Sidenote;

Absolute worst case scenario

If the stock does become a problem due to the flex or whatever
If I'm not satisfied with the accuracy etc

Another option is;
For $250
I could just buy that stock right there:
https://www.osaaustralia.com.au/product ... ighlander/
(for example)

And that should fix the issue (if I even do encounter any problems)

Either way
I'll be right

Thanks for your feedback everyone

I'm pumped to own my very 1st Howa

[pomemax]

You have just put a deposit on one and your looking for problems based on what you have read is that not backwards ???.LOL

. Its a Howa mini action .223 I have 3 Howas I think for the price point you can not pass them i have no fear of wrecking any of them in the scrub they all shoot better than i do If you want to target shoot buy a target rifle .

Is it worth it? Or does the polymer stock ruin the accuracy of the rifle to the point where it's just not worth it due to the loss of accuracy?
LOSS OF ACCURACY Will be more from your shooting style and /or lack of ability

Find the right ammo and enjoy shooting it for a few months then see what you have Let us know in December what you think of it

[solarpak]

Enthusiast,

One of my first centerfires many a year ago was a Howa stainless sporter with a black hogue stock in 223. I bought the rifle primarily because of the price back then . The Howa M1500 was previously called the CMC Mountaineer but having said that i didn't know a lot about Howa back then !
Anyway i mounted a Bushnell Elite 3200 in 3-9x40 and purchased a box of the Winchester 55gr Soft Point bulk pack (white box) ammo just to try out.

That ammo would shoot 5 shots into half an inch out of that rifle - it just worked . As usual i foolishly sold it to a mate who pestered me about it - and was peeved when he sold it off to someone else (thought i was doing him a favour !!!)

So the standard short action howa is a great rifle too.

C.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Pomemax;
#1
I don’t think it’s backwards at all?
Not one bit.
Before buying a rifle
I like to look at the pros
I like to look at the cons
I like to look at the reviews
I like to look at the feedback
I like to have a conversation about them
I like anticipating what could potentially go wrong with them etc
In short;
I like making informed decisions.
It’s completely the opposite of “backwards” roflmao

#2
I completely and utterly disagree with you that you need to buy a dedicated “target rifle” for target shooting work.
I’ve spoken to plenty of people that shoot 0.3”, 0.4”, 0.5, 0.6” groups with their Howa mini action..
I completely and utterly 100% disagree with you.
I disagree with you completely.

#3
Yeah man
Whenever I buy a new rifle
I normally always like to write a review about them on EnoughGun
This way, if anyone else considers buying the same rifles that I have in the future, hopefully my reviews can then help them make a decision.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Solarpak;
Thanks again for your great feedback about the Howa’s man
You’re making me more and more excited about collecting it now!
Oh how I can’t wait
That's another thing that sucks about the gun laws in Australia
The wait lol...
They always make you wait
I'm just waiting on my PTA to come on through now
Cmon lol

[firstguns]

The stocks having pillar bedding which is a bonus, lighter trigger springs are easy and safe to install yourself. The trigger guy on ebay charges $22 posted and 1.5lb is good weight i reckon, I've tried the 2lb as well but the 1.5lb is the pick.

Just picked up the 1.5lb at your recommendation - thanks! Should arrive some time next week with free shipping.

FWIW, he's gunblokeaus on eBay, and has a huge range of other trigger options, not just Howa, as well as other bits and bobs.

[TassieTiger]

I literally just put these springs in my howa 300 - big difference!!! The 2 stage, with huge creep - gone...it’s not sauer level but definitely Tikka equal.
Makes me wonder - for the prices - why don’t they come like that...would make them even better value for $

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

I literally just put these springs in my howa 300 - big difference!!! The 2 stage, with huge creep - gone...it’s not sauer level but definitely Tikka equal.
Makes me wonder - for the prices - why don’t they come like that...would make them even better value for $

I'm glad to hear about that man
I'm glad to hear that that small decision made you happy
Good on ya

[marksman]

after reading through l can see some good advice given
l would like to add if it helps it comes down to what you will accept as ok to what will be ok, and this is not a put down
what you have described is that you want an accurate range plinker and l think you have got yourself a pretty good one
when you decide to get better precision at distance off the bench you can always upgrade to a better stock and start using a rear bag with a rider to help
l'm sure you would get heaps of giggles shooting small groups at 500-600 but all in good time
good luck with it

and for those who dont know about riders have a look under the rear of the stock in this photo, it helps to get the rifle to recoil straight backwards off the bags

[TassieTiger]

Stupid question - isn’t the bullet gone from barrel just before recoil commences? If yes - why would it be important to recoil dead straight ?

[bladeracer]

Stupid question - isn’t the bullet gone from barrel just before recoil commences? If yes - why would it be important to recoil dead straight ?

Recoil begins the same moment the bullet starts to move, at the chamber.

[Blr243]

I tend to agree with blade. Explosion happens between the bullet and the bolt face and it pushes the two objects away from each other simultaneously ...a while ago in the bush somebody was talking to me about some of the mischief they used to get up to when they were young and gun laws were cruisy ...one bloke recons he could chase pigs on the quadbike and shoot the pump 12 gauge one handed but his mate did not agree . So the ambitious one is closing in on a mob and up close decides to aim and pull the trigger but he could not hold the gun and upon firing it shot back into the paddock behind him he had to turn around to get the gun and then catch up to the mob again. So if you were to ask him about recoil I think he would say recoil it’s immediate according to his very controlled scientific testing technique

[TassieTiger]

I understand that recoil begins at the point of ignition, but the butt of the firearm has surely moved barely A few mm ? by the time the bullet has exited the barrel - so, what is the point (form maybe?) of ensuring it travels back 10-20 cm straight ?

[marksman]

Stupid question - isn’t the bullet gone from barrel just before recoil commences? If yes - why would it be important to recoil dead straight ?

blade is correct

the twisting at the wrist of the stock would make no difference to someone shooting off the shoulder or plinking not worried about there group size as much
but if you want to shoot long distances or really tiny groups off a bench consistently you need a setup that will consistently shoot the same over and over

watch someone shooting off a bench with bipod, bags or rest with a casual setup and a hunting stock and see the muzzle rise and jump around
then watch a good well setup benchrest shooter, the rifle will recoil straight backwards, then have a look at the size and consistency of the groups

l have been teaching a young 83 year old bloke lately how to use a bipod and rear bag while l have been culling hoppers, this guy has been all over the world hunting but has never really got into varmint style shooting, he is amazed how l am comfortably head shooting hoppers that he would never have attempted on the animals he has hunted in the past, it was always a chest shot, he is getting the bug for it

[marksman]

I understand that recoil begins at the point of ignition, but the butt of the firearm has surely moved barely A few mm ? by the time the bullet has exited the barrel - so, what is the point (form maybe?) of ensuring it travels back 10-20 cm straight ?

if it starts straight, travels straight it is more likely not to have a flyer from movement, flyers are not good Tassie

[Blr243]

When the bullet is half way down the barrel the gun is either correctly held into the shoulder and well supported on bags consistently shot after shot or its bouncing around from bipod legs or all manner of set ups, eg leaning on the front rack of my quad bike, or resting on an old weather beaten fencepost ..and I think all this random action affects the stability of the barrel as it propels the bullet forward. Imagine if it took 20 seconds for the bullet to exit and imagine all these variables over a 20 second period .....I sight in in the bush prone off bipod legs because that’s where I do 90 per cent of my hunting. I’m aware every time I take a shot of my quad that I’m resting my bipod legs across a horizontal frame and that’s it’s a different situation and that it may effect my poi, but only enough to affect my fox and cat tallies because they are so much smaller

[in2anity]

Instead of bags/bipods etc, you could always learn to 3-P shoot it with a stabilizing sling. You won’t get so hung up on your groups also just sayin. It’ll give you much confidence out bush

[Blr243]

And slack as I am I have not yet added padding to my quadbike front and side horizontal shooting rests... I’m bouncing off bare steel when I shoot. Shame shame ....partly extra padding on the 25 mm steel bars is hard to look around when I’m scanning because it’s all eye height , so I’ll run with that excuse for now