School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

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School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by TassieTiger » 15 Jul 2020, 8:31 pm

Looking to fill a gap in my existing collection...and I’m after something a little different, a little left of field.
I think I’ve narrowed it down to a lever action Winnie 94 top eject Or a lever 45/70, probably marlin. Happy to be guided in another direction...

Rifle will be used for 150m and under hunting - fallow, roo, wallabies and some plinky fun. Faster back up shots are a want rather than need...but I don’t want another bolt.

I did consider a judge for about 2 minutes but then came to my senses.

So the 30/30 vs 45/70 - I know zilch about the 30 and a mate has a 45/70 that ive shot and enjoyed but it might be over kill for my intent...But I do like the possible load variations of the 45 and as a result...the rifle inherently becomes a bit different, a bit of a variable...
The top eject of the 94 is also a bit weird so a red dot or scope would have to be side mounted -but it does make it a bit different and that’s kinda my next thing.

Thoughts or opinions or experience with either - please enlighten me.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by Bill » 15 Jul 2020, 8:53 pm

Savage 99 3030 would be my pick, can be thin on the ground thou :thumbsup:
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by in2anity » 15 Jul 2020, 9:16 pm

Some questions.
1. Will you want to scope it?
2. Do you handload?
3. Is the cost of 45/70 factory ammo something you’re aware of?
4. Have you shot hunting ammo through both a 30/30 and 45/70 before?
5. Are the listed critters the only fur you’ll be hunting?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by SCJ429 » 15 Jul 2020, 9:20 pm

The 45/70 is a great case which can deliver some serious amounts of energy onto a target. It is a good fun big bore which I like to take hunting. I have knocked things over at 250 metres using 400 grain Woodleighs bullets. Not sure how many rounds you would shoot with it in a plinking session but if you don't have a big bore, this one would be a good choice.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by AZZA'S HJ47 » 15 Jul 2020, 9:52 pm

If castings a option 45/70s cheap as chips and as previously mentioned will drop even the largest of pigs with 1 shot even if your not on your game when the shots taken.

Hard to go past a marlin with a red dot set up and follow up shots are not too far behind. With a trigger happy kit and a bit of a polish they are a great gun.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by in2anity » 15 Jul 2020, 9:55 pm

Sorry TT I only quickly read OP - didn’t realize it was you. I thought it was just some random newbie! Ignore my previous.

The 30/30 is a bit vanilla, which is good and bad. It certainly will do the jobs you talk of, and can be made reasonably accurate, by lever gun standards. The main problem with the 45/70 I see is running costs. Burns a lot of powder and consumes a lot of lead. That and in a light package it’s not a “fun” plinker. Unless you discover a sweet TB load, you don’t really go to the range with a 45/70 to have a day of “fun”.

Then again I think overall your average 45/70 will group better than your average 30/30.

If I were able to frequently shoot a 45/70 I think I get one of those long barrel marlin CBs, an 1895cb I think they are called.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by Bill » 15 Jul 2020, 10:07 pm

Fallow, wallaby, roos.... the dirty 30 has em covered out to 150m.

Savage 99 has a rotary mag so if you reload you cant stoke it up a bit and also use pointy projectiles, easy to scope :drinks:
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by boingk » 15 Jul 2020, 11:36 pm

Hi mate, as the others have said the 45-70 is a big ole cartridge and isn't cheap to run with factory ammo. We're talking about $3 a shot or more.

My reloads are 50 cents or so using 13 grain of Trailboss and a 400 grain Blackwidow coated lead pill. They're subsonic, about 1000fps, and still pack a punch.

I run a Marlin 1895GBL (that's extended 6 round mag, big loop lever) and couldn't be happier. The reload process is a good thing for me and I enjoy the savings when I'm at the range plinking out those big old 400 grain bullets.

If you haven't reloaded, this is the time to consider it. I'm sure many people will give recommendations, for me the Lee Classic Turret Kit has worked very well and paid for itself quickly.

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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by Blr243 » 16 Jul 2020, 2:14 am

If u are considering jacketed projectiles, and handloading for the 4570 I’m pretty sure you will be looking at the 458 sizes that are available not the 451/452 that I use in my bushmaster
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by TassieTiger » 16 Jul 2020, 3:44 am

Thanks for replies.
Will definitely be reloading - but won’t be lead casting.
Plinking with the 300wm is not exactly cheap and I imagine the 45/70 to be similar.
As for scoping - I don’t think I would scope this rifle - just because I’ve got some 6 scopes rifles, so maybe a red dot or a graphic or leave open - UNLESS the scope design fitment was a bit weird ala win 94.
I checked out the savage 99 - interesting mag design - different for sure and might be interesting.

Marlin definitely sounds like the pick of the 45/70.

Interesting no one has touched on the win 94 side load....positives / negatives.

Another option I’ve been tinkering with (a different action again) but quick follow up shots - is the 7600 pump centre fire...just so ppl can see where my mind is at...
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by womble » 16 Jul 2020, 3:57 am

Just an opinion and i don’t own either caliber.
I don’t get great accuracy out of the one lever i do own, which is a marlin and better than most. but i have’nt had opportunity to experiment much with it. The few times I’ve used it, dose’nt group consistently. Flyers are not uncommon. In fact some of them are so far gone i worry i hit something behind me. Someone’s going to leave the range and find a bullet hole in their car. I can imagine their disappointment.
But the gun itself, I don’t expect too much from it. Plus i suck. I need a bolt action scoped.
Fun and very light and handy. But head shots on roos and wallabies. Not for me. Not the one I’d pick for that job. Side gate loading in the dark and cold can be a bitch too.
If i was to opt for a workhorse lever action I’d get the browning blr in 223 with detachable mags. Can get aftermarket 10 round mags.

You should still totally get a nice western style lever action though. There is much to appreciate about them. 45-70 too. In case of grizzlies. Just do it.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by womble » 16 Jul 2020, 4:27 am

Oh and here is my review of the marlin 1894 in 38/357
- it’s a bit s**t.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by bigrich » 16 Jul 2020, 4:55 am

Well taz, I’ve been down the path with both calibers, and lever guns. The model 94 Winchester is a fantastic light weight rifle that’s quick to point, and the one I had , a 64a with no barrel bands , was very accurate. But even with a Williams peep sight , my eyes weren’t good enough in low light. Not being angle ejection, which is what is best for scope mounting on a Winchester 94, I’ve moved it on
Marlins are dead easy to pull down for cleaning, and can handle hotter reloads as well. But a scope mounted marlin is a bit heavier than a model 94, and fully loaded can weigh the same as a bolt gun. Which isn’t a bad thing if it’s a 45-70 . Wild West aftermarket triggers are a great improvement on marlins as well . In reality 30-30 is probably adequate for most stuff your likely to come across and doesn’t require a lot of powder for reloads . It suits a light weight model 94. 45-70 is fun and will flatten anything small or large due to it’s bore size . The straight walled brass will last a long time and reduced loads are dead easy . As for lead I haven’t tried this, but have read the Ballard rifling is better in most cases than micro groove barrels
I’ve had marlins and model 94’s in 30-30, and a CVA scout in 45-70. The scout is the one I miss....hope some of this waffle is useful to ya , cheers
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by bigpete » 16 Jul 2020, 5:50 am

Owned a 3030....sold it 2 weeks later.
Owned 2 45/70s....still got one. Pretty versatile,I've shot cast and jacketed,subsonic and full power,shot, double,and triple ball loads from them. IMO you need to get them up around 1900fps to kill well, my 1500fps cast loads shot through lighter stuff without imparting energy. Mind you,the biggest things I shot with it were goats. Currently running 350gn hot cor at just under 2000fps in my double rifle,coz I want it to hit stuff fairly hard. Recoil is stout but not bad really.

Outside the box....but if you're after a light,quick handling lever action and the biggest game you want to shoot is fallow.....my vote would go to my Rossi 92 .44 magnum. Especially if you're not going to scope it.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by Blr243 » 16 Jul 2020, 11:56 am

I shall post here about how much I enjoy or disapprove of my new 7600 pump rifle when I get a chance. If you went down that path I think the tube mag rather than the box mag version I have may suit u better and they look nicer and are 2 or three hundred bucks cheaper too
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by mickb » 16 Jul 2020, 1:45 pm

30-30 gets my vote just due to versality, increased range and less recoil.I asked the local gunstores recently what gets sold the most here, and the biggest sellers were,(apart from rimfire) 223, 308, 30-30... then everything else. Its great for medium game, can handle brush shooting to 200 yards. I like the 45-70 being a lever guy but to me that step up in recoil I was more inclined to have the 'fun big gun' a real big one like an African big game rifle aka 416 remington, 458 lott etc. 45-70 is sort of the poor mans bigbore in that crowd. But if you want to say you have a bigbore in a lever its the obvious choice.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by boingk » 16 Jul 2020, 2:24 pm

Agree on the 44 mag lever. That would be a great option for what the use case is. Honestly I'll probably end up going that way too eventually... in addition to the 4570 of course.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by mickb » 16 Jul 2020, 7:00 pm

forgot to mention scopes or red dots can also be forward mounted on top ejects. I had an aimpoint clone on a 357 Rossi 1892 . Another vote for 44 mag since its been mentioned. 30-30 and 45-70 leaves some 'in between' options. 45 colt on the Rossi 92 action can be pushed hard as well.

Good choice not going for the judge. I had one many years ago in 45 colt. Not great accuracy and noisey, my ears used to ring even with hearing protection. A handgun is usually at arms length, with a revolver carbine your face is right behind the cyclinder gap.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by snag » 16 Jul 2020, 7:54 pm

The Winnie 94 was designed to be used with open sights at appropriate ranges, and as such, is the finest short range hunting rifle ever made ( just my humble opinion shared by about 8 million other owners). If you want to stretch the range of the 30/30 cartridge you'd be better off looking at the marlin side eject rifles, but you need to be aware that this is not a calibre that lends itself to long range accuracy. If you're concerned about hitting power, well the 30/30 is never going to match the 45/70 but, within open sight ranges, a 170 grain flat point hits really hard. And, in my humble yet extremely biased opinion - every shooter needs a model 94 in their collection. Just because.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by marksman » 16 Jul 2020, 8:16 pm

l was shooting a mates marlin 45-70 last week and TBH l would rather shoot the 458wm because this marlin 45-70 booted like hell
the owner has shot buff and pigs with it and from helicopters with no drama while shooting but said he was sore the next day after 50 rounds
l stopped at 5 :wtf: getting old :lol:
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by Bill » 16 Jul 2020, 8:20 pm

my thoughts aswell marksman, I use to the use a 45/70 guide gun with a 2.5x scope on skippy and his mates and to be honest full loads are over kill and the recoil gets a bit old on smallish non adrenaline game
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by TassieTiger » 17 Jul 2020, 6:37 am

Hmmmm....decisions.
Thanks for replies.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by SCJ429 » 17 Jul 2020, 7:53 am

People have mentioned reduced loads for a 45/70 which make it as pleasant to shoot as a 30/30. There is no way to soup the 30/30 up so that it hits like a 400 grain slug travelling at more than twice the speed of sound. Go the big bore.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by straightshooter » 17 Jul 2020, 8:19 am

I would like to add my voice for a 44 mag as far as 150 meter rifles go.
I own 2 Marlin 44 Mags in addition to a 444 marlin. I bought the 444 long ago before the 45/70's became readily available in Australia and haven't felt any need to acquire one. I have owned a Winchester 44 Mag and a Marlin 30-30. Both were underwhelming for various reasons and so were moved on long ago.
A 44 Mag has plenty of loading flexibility but I have settled on 180 gn loads for about 2100 to 2200 fps mv which I use in the sort of light scrubby forest and cypress pine country found in central NSW where vision let alone shots rarely exceed 100m.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by linkoln » 17 Jul 2020, 2:58 pm

I have a marlin 30-30 and the only thing you need to know is 30 30 is $25 a box and 45 70 is $45 a box. I like big bore guns but I can't justify paying so much for the 45-70 unless I'm trying to take down elephants or grisly bears.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by in2anity » 17 Jul 2020, 3:17 pm

There's also these:
That do this:
50m.jpg
50m groups
50m.jpg (172.49 KiB) Viewed 6604 times

And this:
200m.jpg
200m, 12-shot, 4" group.
200m.jpg (212.65 KiB) Viewed 6604 times

Over a meagre 21grs of powder. You do the math. And people say lever guns aren't accurate :unknown:
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by mickb » 17 Jul 2020, 3:21 pm

I have a marlin 30-30 and the only thing you need to know is 30 30 is $25 a box and 45 70 is $45 a box. I like big bore guns but I can't justify paying so much for the 45-70 unless I'm trying to take down elephants or grisly bears.


45-70 is considered a bit underpowered for elephant. There is a legal minimum power level in some african countries to shoot thick skinned game.

Grizzly is fine though :D
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by mickb » 17 Jul 2020, 3:31 pm

SCJ429 wrote:People have mentioned reduced loads for a 45/70 which make it as pleasant to shoot as a 30/30. There is no way to soup the 30/30 up so that it hits like a 400 grain slug travelling at more than twice the speed of sound. Go the big bore.



Thats like deciding between a 308 and a 458 win mag for hunting and saying well the 458win mag has almost twice the kinetic energy so it wins.

I mean that is literally the same comparison power wise as this thread.
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by bigrich » 17 Jul 2020, 3:43 pm

45-70 loaded up in a strong modern action is a powerhouse . check out "buffalo bore" website for custom loaded ammo . over 4600 ft lbs of 45-70 goodness with a 430 gn projectile at 2200 fps . or using "soft" trapdoor springfield loads it's still going to flatten light game due to better energy transfer from it's bore size . i'd shot ppu factory and hornady 325gn ftx out of my scoped cva scout that was about 7 1/2 lbs with scope . the hp ppu's had the pumpkin roller effect , the hornady stuff gave a stouter shove :D

y'know you want it taz ...... ;) ruger No-1 would be nice :thumbsup:
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Re: School me on 30/30 vs 45/70 - I’m shopping...

Post by marksman » 17 Jul 2020, 5:01 pm

shooting my mates 45-70 again today, water jugs at 100 :lol: what a blast

the projectiles were a 405gr from a company in Queensland, his 100m group on paper off bags was 3 shots touching, the jugs were 3 liter off the shoulder
the trajectory is dismal and something to keep an eye on but this guy has shot a hell of a lot of animals with it
it boots the hell out of me and l dont like that but l would use it hunting any day :drinks:
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