MDT ESS - issues continue...sigh

[TassieTiger]

Can’t go to far into this at present as am meeting with an engineer tomorrow - however, I’m now on my 3rd - yes, no 3 - MDT ESS chassis and still having issues with alignment and accuracy...

I strongly suggest - if anyone has a MDT ESS Mated with a howa or weatherby, to check and see if the recoil lug IS actually sitting on the chassis block OR see if the action screws are the only thing holding the action / chassis together.

On all 3 of my chassis - the action bolts, when done up, have pulled the recoil lug forward and MDT have acknowledged in an email that the interface between howa a and weatherbys does not suit the MDT chassis set up.
MDT sent me a photo of their test block howa - there is a tiny, leading edge chamfer on the howa recoil lug and this is problematic...

More info to follow after tomorrow if anyone is interested.

[duddley75]

following this.

I took mine to St Marys last week and put about 50 rounds through it, it shot dead on once I had it zeroed.

[Jarhead]

TassieTiger,

Yes please. You have an attentive audience- Keep us in the loop!

[Jarhead]

TassieTiger,

Yes please. You have an attentive audience- Keep us in the loop!

[TassieTiger]

So, not touching on the alignment issues, Bolt holes not lining up, etc - here are two photos that touch on the more serious issue as I understand it.
I’m not a smith and don’t know exactly how big of a deal this is but based on my smiths reaction, a senior member here, as well as MDT - it’s not great...
There are two locations in the chassis where the action is meant to be mated too and the action screws / bolts should pull the recoil lug and rear V - into the chassis for a snug fit...which equals consistency. But as you can see from oil track on the rear section(note also the inconsistent gap each side) and the recoil cross bar - when the action is tightened up, the only thing holding the chassis to the action = screws. There is clearance at both the rear V and the recoil lug...this might be okay for a smaller calibre but a heavy 300 is going to move the bolts over time and Ive already had consistency issues...
As above - an engineer is looking tomorrow, will be interesting to see what they say, maybe the bolts are enough...
Now - initially I thought this might be my howa action, perhaps I got a thin / out of spec unit - but when I checked the same areas on the houge stock - it sits in tight and very snug...I then checked my other rifles and all are hard up against recoil lug....now MDT have effectively advised that this is normal for the howa and weatherby actions, as per their “poor” machining practices leaves a tiny chamfer at the front of the lug that prevents solid mating...I don’t know - you be the judge.
The fix - as offered by senior member on here - is to Remove some material and then bed the chassis, and this might have to do, but - it might pay to check if your in a similar boat regardless.
Cheers.

[Blr243]

I have not followed this too closely, but in hindsight would u have been better off with the original stock ?

[TassieTiger]

I have not followed this too closely, but in hindsight would u have been better off with the original stock ?

Very funny - lol. yes - I would have been.

Long story short - when I walked into the engineers office this morning - he already knew the issues...I said what - that the howa / weatherby actions don't mate well with the MDT's ? He said - no, I see rem 700's not mating well.
I wont see my rifle now for at least a couple months - due to the guy being one of the best available...the chassis will need a LOT of material removed and then rebuilt up to be straight. He was horrified that the bolts were holding the action clear of the chassis bedding...and said it should not have been shot whilst that was the case. Here I was thinking that the action pulled down would facilitate enough friction to prevent a frequency transfer into the chassis but as he pointed out - oil and dirt is present - where it should not be present...IF the mating was correct.
Be careful guys - we are playing with dangerous toys here...
Cheers
TT

[in2anity]

Acraglas gel. Roughen the surfaces for better adhesion.

[Blr243]

That’s a long wait but hopefully the engineer can sort it out for u

[Rwd22]

No good to hear you're still having issues mate, has your action been assessed at all? Little hard to tell from photos and not peeping at the set-up directly, but is your rear action screw drilled offset, not on the chassis, but the action itself?

I actually just went and had a look at the 300PRC Howa barrelled action sitting in my safe, my rear action screw is drilled slightly offset on the rear mounting tag, so that oil imprint as shown on yours, will be the same on mine. Providing it doesn't project the barrel on an angle I can't see an issue with that, that rear point of the action shouldn't be butting into the chassis, that's what the recoil lug is for and the bolts are simply there to hold the action into the chassis in a vertical fashion.

It appears there is more contact imprint on one side of the recoil lug in your photo, I do wonder if this is caused by the rear action screw skewing the action slightly. I find it hard to believe MDT have machined anything out of square, especially since I've just noted at least one manufacturing inconsistency in my own Howa. Kind of makes me want to remove my other Howa action from my ESS chassis and see what's been going on with that one. My missus punched a just under half inch group at 100m the last time we took it out, so can't be too much of an issue.

You noted that the recoil lug isn't butting into the lug receiver on the chassis, but I don't see any sign of the front action bolt contacting the interior of the fixing hole, if anything there appears to be marks on the face of the recoil lug block (Which I would expect to see). I have to admit I'm a little confused at what the exact issues are as everything I've seen with my understanding, looks fine, outside of the rear action screw hole being skewed on the action itself?

I've re-read your above post with pictures more times than I can count, the only thing I can think of is the lateral clearance either side of the recoil lug, while it isn't 100% ideal, I don't see that as an issue, providing your action recoils rearwards and not at a 90 degree angle. The upper section directly behind the recoil lug receiver centralises the action when it is inserted.

I must have completely missed something major going on with your particular chassis/action set-up as everything I'm seeing seems ok. Please let me know if I've missed something, could possibly save my ass in the future with my own Howa's and MDT chassis' if there is problem there that I'm just not seeing.

[TassieTiger]

Rwd;

There are a couple issues and I get your comments - it’s hard to explain in words.
If you undo your action screws so they are loose - not fall out loose but just slightly loose, with the rifle on its tail - can you slide your action back and forth at all ? Theoretically - allowing for screw/bolt head movement, you shouldn’t be able to slide it backwards because it should already be hard against the recoil lug - mine is not - it will slide back and forth A few mm - meaning the only thing holding the chassis / action is 2 small bolts. The recoil lug is not engaged when action is tightened up.
Further - if you look at the bottom photo closely (above on chassis recoil lug), you’ll See the the recoil lug, literally cannot touch the chassis face due to a tiny chamfer on the leading edge. Yes - there are marks on the chassis - trust me though - this has been fitted on / off 200 times By countless ppl now, those marks are not from the action when in use - when both bolts are done up, U can get cardboard in between the two surfaces.

Also, That oil mark In the rear (was a test for mating by local gunsmith) - physically seeing it, means that it crept under the gap in the rear, so it shouldn’t really be there if there was good mating contact between the two surfaces...

Now the question about my action vs MDT is a good one and the answer is, I don’t really know. MDT sent me specs from their test actions and they aligned with mine but that doesn’t mean mine is straight as you say or measurements are correct.

This was an additional calamity on previous chassis -
The last chassis that came to me from MDT - in the foreend - I could do up holes 1 and 3 but not 2, if I did up 2, I couldn’t do 1 and 3 - see pics.

I have wondered all along how - any manufacturer, anywhere, could allow for tooling variations across the globe, to which they have to Ultimately mate Precise surfaces with...the answer appears to be that it’s not possible 100% of the time...but all said and done - it’s fixable and will be done so.

[Rwd22]

Very fair call mate, as you said, it's hard to get your noggin around it just by pictures and without poking around it.

I'll have to investigate mine and see if the recoil lug is in contact with the receiver when I back the bolts out, certainly being able to slide cardboard in there isn't a good thing, haha. I do find it interesting that there is no damage/deformation to the action bolt holes in the chassis when there is a gap between the recoil lug and recoil surface.

As you mentioned the float in the rear mounting lug, so does that mean the action is essentially see-sawing on the centre surface of the chassis?

Either way mate, I hope you get it all sorted and report back, tough trying to wrap your head around a description and some photos.

[TassieTiger]

Very fair call mate, as you said, it's hard to get your noggin around it just by pictures and without poking around it.

I'll have to investigate mine and see if the recoil lug is in contact with the receiver when I back the bolts out, certainly being able to slide cardboard in there isn't a good thing, haha. I do find it interesting that there is no damage/deformation to the action bolt holes in the chassis when there is a gap between the recoil lug and recoil surface.

As you mentioned the float in the rear mounting lug, so does that mean the action is essentially see-sawing on the centre surface of the chassis?

Either way mate, I hope you get it all sorted and report back, tough trying to wrap your head around a description and some photos.

Potentially - yes. And yes again - there may be slight deformation from 300wm recoil - but it’s likely to be in the bolts. I’ll let the pros deal with it now.
A couple of friends have mdt (one reason I went in that direction) and upon seeing my issues. they’ve checked theirs and all are absolutely perfect.
I don’t know anyone else close who has a 300 howa action as that would be the litmus test...

[Strikey]

I recently put my Howa short action varmint into the MDT Oryx chassis, took it to the range and it didn't shoot all that good so just put it down to me getting accustomed to my first use of a chassis, anyways 2 weeks later back to the range again and pull the rifle out to find the action is moving around in the Oryx with the action screws still tight, took the front screw out and found it was bottoming out. The action screws supplied with the chassis are a beesdick too long, quick fix with the grinder, have you checked the length of the screws with your stock??

[TassieTiger]

I recently put my Howa short action varmint into the MDT Oryx chassis, took it to the range and it didn't shoot all that good so just put it down to me getting accustomed to my first use of a chassis, anyways 2 weeks later back to the range again and pull the rifle out to find the action is moving around in the Oryx with the action screws still tight, took the front screw out and found it was bottoming out. The action screws supplied with the chassis are a beesdick too long, quick fix with the grinder, have you checked the length of the screws with your stock??

Good pickup Strikey. Even a bees duck in the wrong area can have a huge effect. Mine were checked and found ok.
I’m letting pros sort it now - the question I am asking myself is - IF MDT advertised that the bedding block on the ESS chassis does not necessarily work that well with the Howa action / bottom - would I have still bought, knowing the issues I’ve encountered? Probably - this 300 is not a work horse, it’s a toy, so it is what it Is...I do hope that maybe, I’ve highlighted what someone might check (as you have also done) prior to buying - especially those that do need an accurate work horse for a living. I will make this MDT work, but I won’t buy another.
My mates MDT’s work very well...

[marksman]

its surprising that you can get 3 chassis from a company that do not fit your action or there parts Tassie but other people can get one and it does

MDT would not send you another let alone another 2 if they could not see a problem with their product from photo's you have sent them

what l am thinking is that MDT have changed where they get there chassis built and QC has dropped dramatically

l also do realise that some people would not know if there action was floating on bolts and sitting off the bottom of the recoil lug,
you have had other problems as well regarding fit and alignment for what you have paid a lot of money for, l would be very unhappy,
it all sounds like salesman talk, there product does not live up to expectations made from there promises