New Howa 243 Bolt difficult to close

[Jakethefake]

I've been playing with my new Howa 243 this weekend. Unfortunately something seems to be wrong because the bolt is very difficult to close sometimes. Its easy to open after firing though. It seems to vary according to the ammunition. I've mostly used PPU 90gn SPs and its the worst. I've tried some of my hand loads which is a mix of remington and winchester brass, some of it is fine and some is as bad as the PPU. I have four Remington 87gn factory loads which cycle perfectly although I haven't fired them yet. I think I will buy another box of factory loads tomorrow to try.
The cases from my reloads chamber perfectly before and after full length sizing. The fired PPU brass is tight before and after full length sizing.
I don't think its a OAL issue as I've tried seating the bullets in my hand loads progressively deeper and it doesn't seem to make any difference.
All the ammo I've tried chambers/cycles fine through my old Brno 243.
Is this a manufacturing fault I should return the rifle for or is it something I should work around?

[deanp100]

If the factory loads function perfectly I would be happy with the rifle and look at the ammo. If it’s been fired in the Brno and not completely resized there could be a problem. Sloppy chamber on the old Brno, Tight new chamber on the howa and suddenly nothing works. Get some new brass solely for use in the Howa and I bet the problems will rectify themselves.
I had an old sportco 222. Brass from it feels like a 223 in my sako. I would need a hammer to close the bolt . Not even close to similar chamber sizes.

[SCJ429]

You could get a small base body die and run the brass through that.

Have you measured the brass that does not fit to see where it is oversize?

[in2anity]

have you trimmed?

[marksman]

this is normal for a tight chamber using cases that have been fired in another chamber that is larger or sloppy
are these cases only fired in your howa, if they have been shot in the brno you may need to use a small base die to get them to fit the howa properly
dont use the ammo for both

tikkas have this problem with PPU factory rounds but after firing they fit properly

[Blr243]

My first thought is to ask a gunsmith to test the rifle with headspace gauges, assuming You have one nearby, but if it’s a bit tight with only one type of ammo maybe you can resolve it with your own reloading technique s/ experience

[Jakethefake]

Ok, I've done some measuring and experimenting this morning and I'm more confused then before.
My handloads were all previously fired in the Brno but full length sized and trimmed before being reloaded. They won't be getting used in the Brno again. Out of 58 rounds 19 are very difficult to chamber. Some are a bit stiff and some the bolt is almost impossible to close(so I'm not forcing it). The reloads are a mix of Remington and Winchester brass but I don't think the brand is relevant because the 19 that are difficult are a mix of the two. It was a while ago that I reloaded them but maybe I didn't run them all through the full length die properly.

More confusing is that while the PPU factory ammo is stiff to chamber, but useable, after full length sizing the spent cases, they are more difficult to chamber then before. I haven't trimmed them yet but they are not over length. I can't understand why they are worse after full length sizing. To be clear, this is brand new brass from factory loads that has been once fired in the Howa (not the Brno).
I've never had an issue with PPU in any of my other rifles, maybe I got a bad batch or their tolerances on their 243 isn't as good.
It does look like the shoulder on the difficult cases (PPU and hand loads) is slightly rounded, while on the good cases, its a more sharply defined bend. Measuring them with verniers, there doesn't seem to be any dimensions that are significantly different on the difficult cases.
I guess I'll have to get a small base die to use the PPU brass, although they are expensive and don't seem easy to come by, might be easier and cheaper to buy more brass instead.

On the other hand I picked up a box of federal powershok 80gn SPs this morning and they cycle perfectly.

[marksman]

"but maybe I didn't run them all through the full length die properly."

revise the die setup, it could be that you need a tighter sizing die (small base die)

"It does look like the shoulder on the difficult cases (PPU and hand loads) is slightly rounded"

a common mistake when FLSing is to think that lowering the die more will make the case smaller,
this is mushrooming the shoulders and the die needs to be backed off (raised) a bit to stop it from happening

l think your FLS die is a bit sloppy and you need to invest in a small base die to fix this with your cases

but IMHO just start neck sizing with cases from the rifle it will be used in and only use these cases in the rifle it came out of and you will not have this problem

if you can chamber the round and fire it you will find it should chamber better afterwards if not your die is not sizing the casehead enough,
your chamber is smaller than your dies dimensions at the case head

[Jakethefake]

a common mistake when FLSing is to think that lowering the die more will make the case smaller,
this is mushrooming the shoulders and the die needs to be backed off (raised) a bit to stop it from happening

l think your FLS die is a bit sloppy and you need to invest in a small base die to fix this with your cases

I'm using Lee dies and their instructions state to screw the die in till it touches the case holder, plus 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn more. I haven't done anything different to this. When I size a case I run it into the die until the case holder bottoms out on to the base of the die. I don't see how setting the die lower could result in anything different, as the case still can't go any further into the die once the case holder has hit the bottom of the die.

Are lee dies known to be a bit sloppy? Since small base dies are difficult to find, I wonder if switching to another brand of full length die might solve the problem?

[solarpak]

If factory ammo - excluding the PPU- chambers without any issues then i would say your reloads are the problem.
If you wish to reload for the rifle start out with virgin brass and proceed from there.
( I dont reload myself )

If the rifle still has a problem it should be under warranty and take it back to your dealer and get them to ask OSA to look at it.
No need to mess about with it if its still under warranty

C.

[marksman]

what is happening is that your die is pushing the shoulder back and the case is bulging at the shoulder because the brass has to go somewhere,
there is slop in the shoulder area of the die allowing the mushrooming of your case, the answer is to raise the die up and not push the shoulder back as much
your chamber is a different shape than the die, it will never be the same unless cut with the same reamer, both will be sammi but that is sloppy
the instructions you have are a one size fits all instruction that is not working for your case the way it is set
you may be able to get it to work but not how the manufacturer is saying to set the die up
you want to FLS to the chamber of your rifle, no manufacturer can say what size your chamber is,
a slight bump is all you want when you over size you are over working the case, to fix these cases would be IMHO fire them in the chamber of the rifle they will be used in if you can close the bolt, even if tight to close the bolt the case will form back to the chamber size or get new cases and neck size with a lee collet die

[Blr243]

When I push down on the handle all the way when I’m fls my 243 cases I assume I have done that part right , but as I lift the handle and I have a grabby (inside case neck )over the expander ball, I sometimes wonder if I’m dragging my case shoulder Up forward again after I have just sized it In the original down push of my handle ......would that make my case too big to chamber easily? I’m not sure. For a long time I have struggled with that dirty grabby inside case neck issue A wet tumbler might sort it if I can part with the dollars

[marksman]

I sometimes wonder if I’m dragging my case shoulder Up forward again after I have just sized it In the original down push of my handle ......would that make my case too big to chamber easily?

basically no but you are overworking the neck and case
if the die is not setup properly the neck will probably be crooked so you have a non concentric round that will shoot off target
these FLS dies are made to lock down but IMHO they should be left unlocked so they wobble straight as you pull the expander ball back through the neck
to stop the grabby feel you should polish the expander ball and use some lee lube inside the neck with a q-tip
in reality to FLS IMHO you should use your chamber as a gauge by taking the firing pin out and trying a case in the chamber for fit
l did a thread on FLSing a while ago l will try and find to show how l recommend FLSing, l'll put it up when l find it
heres some good tips but showing how to bump with a comparator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXxxf0iXuio&t=591s

[marksman]

here it is viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11560
you can do away with the comparitor by just sizing down a little at a time till you get the same result, l have seen a video from eagle eye shooting on utube where he does it without removing the firing pin
this is how l do it anyway, hope it helps

[Blr243]

Thanks marksman. That was a good vid. It makes me realise how sloppy my reloading is compared to what some people do I just been bunging the bullet into a charged case and pushing down on the handle .....Under a microscope my concentricity must look like a drunk bloke kicking an avacado down the road

[marksman]

the good thing about that guy is he is not selling anything and he uses gear that we all can use as well as factory rifles
have a look at this for a factory rifle a savage 110 tactical 6.5 creedmoor at 1280yds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYyRgusuR7k

[Jakethefake]

I think the problem is more with the PPU brass than anything else. The reloads that I have fired in the rifle and full length resized chamber fine. I'll neck size those ones from this point on.
I took a picture of a few cases.
1. Unfired factory PPU. A bit stiff to close the bolt.
2. Fired factory PPU. Chambers easily.
3. Fired and full length sized PPU. Very difficult to chamber.
4. Winchester case from one of my reloads. Has been full length sized and chambers easily.
3 and 4 are longer but still within spec. I'll probably trim them anyway.
The PPU cases seem to have a longer shoulder and a shorter neck than the winchester and others.
Full length sizing the PPU appears to have brought the shoulder forward even further.
I think the solution for now will be to only neck size the PPU brass.

[marksman]

they do not look to me like they are mushrooming at all
l have seen in the past that PPU cases will be tight on first firing in good tight chambers, eg... tikka chambers, l think you have a good tight chamber
but after first firing the PPU cases are ok because they will form down to the chamber shape

l can clearly see what is happening after you size the case, its has bought the shoulder forward like you say
why its happening is that the PPU cases are thicker so as the case is being sized the extra brass is being pushed forward filling the die, the winchester cases not having as much brass are just sizing down

l assume the die was setup the same so l think just sizing the neck would be the go as well, PPU cases are a good case

you can use this die for neck sizing by putting a washer between the bottom of the die and the shell holder when you set the die up and do not lock the die, let it wobble

[Jakethefake]

Thanks for your help marksman. I do have a collet die for the 243 but its good to know that trick for some calibers I don't have a collet die for.