204 Ruger

[madang55]

I am re-barreling a Rem 700 223 to 204. Why you might ask?. Because I have a 2nd 223, I have 6.5 Grendel and I want a dedicated flatter shooting, smaller calibre Fox rifle, and, because I can. I looked at 17H and 17 Rem. What I know about the 204 is what I have read. What I have not read and need to know an opinion on is....The 204 being the "laser" it is, does this new barrel NEED to be a heavy profile or will a medium or sporter weight be sufficient?. In the 204, will there be significant differences in accuracy in the different barrel profiles? Normally I would assume very much so, but..
The other side of the coin is I am watching out for a 204 to come up for sale in the same price bracket as the cost of the new barrel etc. I know, probably not going to happen, but...

[in2anity]

Depends on the application. The heavy barrel merely gives you better consistency during timed events/situations. That and makes reloading easier. A 5 round group, from cold, in a sporter, will still easily be a minute of fox head at 200m. I have a 204 sporter and groups open up a little after 5 rounds. Still around 2moa though, pretty much as good as I am from the sling.

[marksman]

precision does not come from how heavy a contour, it is more about how well the barrel is made
you can have a pencil thin barrel more accurate than a heavy bull barrel

a bull barrel may be easier to hold steady, the nodes may be easier to tune having less whip with wider nodes, it wont heat up as quick but

my advice is to buy a hand lapped match grade SS barrel if you want a tack driver, just because a barrel maker laps a barrel does not make it match grade
a 204 hole is not very big so a #4 magnum sporter shilen barrel is like having a heavy barrel eg.. 22mm at the muzzle @ 26" with a 5.2mm hole
use a brand the winners are using in comp and get a smith who does the type of work you are after eg.. one who makes precision or long range comp rifles

l have had barrels fitted up to heavy varmint that is way too heavy to lug about
what l think anyway good luck with it

[in2anity]

Recognition to Bladeracer for originally posting. Here is a video demonstrating what happens to groups out of various factory sporters, when stressed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9ll8rmeqQ0

[madang55]

Thanks guys.That video says a lot. Its a rifle I'm not going to lug around all day, more so it will be in a cradle in the window for a few hours at night, or sitting in the shade of a tree waiting for the target to show its face etc. It will be used around sheep and cattle, so it has to go where I want it to go. So a barrel that is not going to get that hot under normal conditions. I think I will end up with something in between. My Howa Grendel has a 'medium' wt barrel and the last group I fired from it, (last shots fired this year actually before the madness) were one ragged hole and I had put down about 30 shots in the previous 45 mins. Haven't been able to get back to the range to prove that load. I've been offered Chrome Molly or Stainless, I'm sure the CM will be fine (cheaper as well). We shall see.

[in2anity]

If it’ll wear glass, a carbine length barrel is your friend. My “carry” gun is a 16”, and it’s a medium contour; still weighs well under 4kg fully kitted, including a 2.5-8x34 Leuie and a nice leather sling.

[madang55]

If it’ll wear glass, a carbine length barrel is your friend. My “carry” gun is a 16”, and it’s a medium contour; still weighs well under 4kg fully kitted, including a 2.5-8x34 Leuie and a nice leather sling.

In 204Ruger? I would have thought it wasn't a short barrel candidate, not like the 308?

[animalpest]

A medium weight or heavier barrel would be my choice. You can watch the bullet hit with a barrel like that.

I wouldn't ever consider a shortlist barrel in .204. Let it have as much opportunity to develop its full potential in velocity - nothing less than 22 inch with 24 inch ideal.

[in2anity]

If it’ll wear glass, a carbine length barrel is your friend. My “carry” gun is a 16”, and it’s a medium contour; still weighs well under 4kg fully kitted, including a 2.5-8x34 Leuie and a nice leather sling.

In 204Ruger? I would have thought it wasn't a short barrel candidate, not like the 308?

Agreed it makes less sense to shorten a 204, but I’m just saying carbines are convenient, for in the sticks. There’s a few 223 carbines to choose from. Btw you’ll still see the fall of the shot with a 223 carbine.

[SCJ429]

If you bought a Maddco 204 barrel in a Sendero, 5R profile, you would have a very nice varmint rig.

[madang55]

I had a quick look at Madco but I think I will go with a Swan. I'm trying to upload a photo of the current rifle in the stock its going to be in. Just got to wait for the lock downs to end.

[animalpest]

Carbine length barrels are great walking in thick scrub.

But you don't get a .204 for its laser like ballistics to use as a scrub gun.

[Skinna]

Yep...on my Tikka sporters, there is a lot more steel around the 20 cal hole than there is the 7mm hole.

My sporter 204 is great..its light & pretty rare i need more than 3 shots, most times its only one shot, sometimes 2 on the occasional silly second roo or confused bunny . only once ever forced myself to stop at 8 shots on plague volumes of bunny's. So ask yourself how often your going to need that accuracy & round count for killing fur--how many times do you need to put 8 or 10 shots into the equivelant of the eye of a rabbit at 280+ yds....
...meaning if you dont need the extra weight, or its only in real life terms going to make a difference in a handful of effective shots over its life, go a lighter profile.
Id rather cart a light rifle often & loose marginal accuracy on the very odd occasion, than ALWAYS cart a heavy rifle for no real measurable difference on vital organ or even head shots in the field....just my opinion.

TBH i dont see, or rarely see the actual moment of impact with it...i either blink, or shooting with scope mounted torch & just see fog (gasses from barrel)-(occasionally ill see the eyes of cat or fox go down thru the fog if under 200)-, or when attempting long shots on bunny heads im only barely touching the stock & pretty much let it free recoil so i loose sight picture...so you could say im an audio man...meaning i listen for the 'thwakk' for confirmation.

A short barrel is also good for in car use shooting out of multiple windows/both sides of the car, but not sure of the logistics of that with a 204 as is said above.

[in2anity]

But you don't get a .204 for its laser like ballistics to use as a scrub gun.

Generally speaking no, but it's all relative isn't it? A 204 carbine will still shoot measurably flatter than a similar length 223 carbine. Let's take an extreme example, i.e. going to the shortest legal end of the spectrum.

In a 223, going from a 24" to a 16" sees around a 300fps reduction in velocity, i.e. approx 3200fps down to 2900fps, for arguments sake let's call it a 10% reduction in velocity.

Apply roughly the same reduction to the 204 shooting 40grainers at 3900fps out of a 24". Rounding off, a 10% reduction yields approx 3500fps.

Now, presuming i'm sorta correct, plug that into your computer of choice.

Out of the 24", with a 200m zero, it'll print 2.5cm high at 100-150m.

204 Ruger, 24" barrel, 40gr VMAX

24_204.jpg (110.89 KiB) Viewed 3595 times

Now, out of a 16" carbine, with a 200m zero, instead, it'll print 3.3cm high at 100-150m:

204 Ruger, 16" barrel, 40gr VMAX

16_204.jpg (113.34 KiB) Viewed 3595 times

Comparing the two, that's a difference of less than 1cm at the peak of the trajectory at 100-150m (if shots are kept under 200m). Not much considering shooter error, and any inherent inaccuracy of the rifle itself. Just sayin.

This is all highly theoretical, and there's a good chance my data is off, but it does illustrate the point that shedding a bit of length doesn't hurt as much as many hunters presume. Of course there are other factors at play, such as muzzle blast. As a "left-of-field" build a 20" 204 might be a good compromise length

[madang55]

This is the current rifle in original 223 sport wt barrel. It can shoot, but as I said I have a 2nd 223, a CZ 527 Ltd Ed with a faster twist and heavier barrel. The Rem was always going to be re-built. Just had to choose into what. Thank you for the info on barrel lengths and velocities etc. It makes a big difference when you can get calm, informed info

KNrem7c2.JPG (737.69 KiB) Viewed 3585 times

[in2anity]

It's funny i've been mostly on the 303 for the last 12mnths shooting weekly Service Rifle, with the occasional dip into Non-Service with both the 223 and 204(among others), and to me, out to 300m, the 204 and 223 are basically the same beast.

Compared against the old 303, both are fast, accurate, flat shooting with SFA drop up to 200m, but 300m needs a touch of elevation, about 4 minutes from memory. Give me 1 sighter and i'll be on the bull with both these at any distance up to 300m. It's all a matter of perspective - take your pick.

I'll choose the more accurate gun before getting too hung up on the nuances of 22cal vs 20cal. They are both "varmint" calibers so to speak.

[marksman]

looking forward to see the results of this build, l have not used any of swans barrels or his work myself and am interested in what it will be like
l have heard good and bad reports about them but you will hear the same about any maker
l thought there would be more people posting up with their experiences about the swan barrels eg... BR has had a few and from memory was pretty happy
looking at the style of stock you are using you have plenty of forearm so should be able to open up the barrel channel to suit a heavier barrel
do you know who made the stock?

[in2anity]

I have a swan in the No4. It’s adequate. Probably slightly better than a good factory in terms of consistency. Big queues for Allan (more like his son actually) these days. Just my experience.

[madang55]

looking forward to see the results of this build, l have not used any of swans barrels or his work myself and am interested in what it will be like
l have heard good and bad reports about them but you will hear the same about any maker
l thought there would be more people posting up with their experiences about the swan barrels eg... BR has had a few and from memory was pretty happy
looking at the style of stock you are using you have plenty of forearm so should be able to open up the barrel channel to suit a heavier barrel
do you know who made the stock?

I have a "thing" about plastic stocks. So I searched around and was told to give a guy called Ken Noye a go.
He usually does bench-rest work etc and I was not given much chance, the worst he could say was sorry, no. But, I must have caught him at a weak moment. He fitted the recoil pad and did the bedding. The stock wasn't finished so I did that. I used very fine paper and finished with 0000 wool, then applied about 7 coats of "wipe on poly", 0000 in between each coat. Its due for a touch up, but I will do that after the re-barrel. It's based on a Sako Varmint profile I think. He even lengthened the stock to fit my gorilla reach. Very happy.

[marksman]

l actually thought it was a walnut copy of the rem VLS stock? the sako is a little more rounded in the forearm?
its a very nice stock, it would be a good one for steady shooting IMHO and well worth doing a build on

[madang55]

l actually thought it was a walnut copy of the rem VLS stock? the sako is a little more rounded in the forearm?
its a very nice stock, it would be a good one for steady shooting IMHO and well worth doing a build on

That's what I'm hoping for. And I've just been suggested that a Remington Varmint profile barrel would go nicely, Fine by me. And a 1:11 twist. I said that my projectile weights would stop at a max 45gr, (223 can pick t up from there) probably concentrate on 40gr and maybe 32g. Process will take a while. Have to wait till the shops are open so I can ship it to them. 2-3 weeks, then a week to post, 4 weeks getting the barrel fitted, another week or two to return, so sit back, be patient and try not to chew the fingernails to the bone. Keep myself occupied gently expanding the channel for the new barrel. It shouldn't take much