Hornady 325gn 45/70 govt loads

[TassieTiger]

Has anyone loaded up any of these cannon balls ?

I loaded up a couple to test cycle and was surprised as just how deep these need to be in order to cycle the action.
The cannelure line on the projectile has ended up being inside the brass case - it’s about 75% internal and it just does not look right - anyone loaded any ? First test fire tomorrow...but I’m thinking I might buy some factory loads first...

[LawrenceA]

If they are the FTX then those cases are trimmed shorter then standard.
Did you take this into account?
I have never used the FTX but load for a couple of 45-70's.

[Blr243]

I have loaded up 50 of these , crimped in the can ( and then used the lee fac crimp die to complete the picture, ) but for some reason I did not give it a check regarding cycling ......so I am very glad u posted this.Because otherwise I would not find out about this problem till on my next hunt .. After reading your post I went and checked , and the little red tip binds up due to overall length being too long. It does not work at all. I can’t attempt to seat them deeper now that they are crimped ....so I will just pull those little red tips out and shoot the ammo of like that .....most of the pills for the 4570 are eoither flat nose or hp so they prob are fine. Just these bloody long pointy flex tips from hornady. I’ll have to seat them deeper in future. This stuff up will teach me not to stuff them up again. And tassie, regarding trying some factory ammo first , we all know that factory 4570 is dear as poison but the ppu 4570 is much more reasonable ....hopefully it’s available in your neck of the woods

[bladeracer]

Has anyone loaded up any of these cannon balls ?

I loaded up a couple to test cycle and was surprised as just how deep these need to be in order to cycle the action.
The cannelure line on the projectile has ended up being inside the brass case - it’s about 75% internal and it just does not look right - anyone loaded any ? First test fire tomorrow...but I’m thinking I might buy some factory loads first...

Cannelure is irrelevant, seat to the depth you want, and crimp it there.

[LawrenceA]

I am sure you already know this but the 45-70 original chambering had no throat.
So when crimping ahead of the cannelure careful also to look at the ogive.
The FTX may start to taper right in front of the cannulure so as to fit these throatless chambers.
This would explain why you had to seat them deep and why the FTX cases are cut short.

Not sure if crimping on the ogive would work well.

[Bello]

Hello Tassie Tiger
I have a Marlin 45-70. Lots of fun. Recoil will wake you up.
I load the FTX 325gr.
I use ADI AR 2207. I use Federal 210 primers. I get about 2256 FPS. Accuracy is good.
You MUST trim the case to 2.040 inches.
Oh if I haven't mentioned it yet, you MUST trim the case to 2.040 inches.

[TassieTiger]

The cases were brand new and I cannot recall the length but they were measured and within spec - so should they be shorter again with the 325 FTX ?
BLR is correct - the red tip binds against the action if they extended even a fraction beyond where they touch. I kept loading them a .5mm at a time until they cycled - and they will cycle now but they are in the case a fair way and I dont want to over pressure.

[Bello]

Hi Tassie Tiger
It was a while ago that I loaded mine.
But I also had new cases.
And if I am not mistaken, I had to trim them all.
I found once trimmed, and loaded, I had no problem cycling them in my Marlin lever rifle.
But I do remember being told when using the Hornady 325g FTX you MUST trim the case.
So I did.
If my memory serves me correct, they have to be trimmed because with the Hornady FTX the C.O.A.L was too long.

[LawrenceA]

Hi Tassie Tiger
It was a while ago that I loaded mine.
But I also had new cases.
And if I am not mistaken, I had to trim them all.
I found once trimmed, and loaded, I had no problem cycling them in my Marlin lever rifle.
But I do remember being told when using the Hornady 325g FTX you MUST trim the case.
So I did.
If my memory serves me correct, they have to be trimmed because with the Hornady FTX the C.O.A.L was too long.

That is spot on. Even the factory FTX ammo has shorter cases

[TassieTiger]

Hi Tassie Tiger
It was a while ago that I loaded mine.
But I also had new cases.
And if I am not mistaken, I had to trim them all.
I found once trimmed, and loaded, I had no problem cycling them in my Marlin lever rifle.
But I do remember being told when using the Hornady 325g FTX you MUST trim the case.
So I did.
If my memory serves me correct, they have to be trimmed because with the Hornady FTX the C.O.A.L was too long.

Wry interesting - I am 4mm under max COAL but even at 2mm under - the FTX were binding.

I’ve bought some ppu today...insanely expensive - and first shots will be tonight. I’ll single load the FTX until I better understand. Guy at shop said he has heard of FTX actually firing shots in magazine...this had me worried - I might file a mm of point off

[Bello]

Hi Tassie Tiger
It was a while ago that I loaded mine.
But I also had new cases.
And if I am not mistaken, I had to trim them all.
I found once trimmed, and loaded, I had no problem cycling them in my Marlin lever rifle.
But I do remember being told when using the Hornady 325g FTX you MUST trim the case.
So I did.
If my memory serves me correct, they have to be trimmed because with the Hornady FTX the C.O.A.L was too long.

Wry interesting - I am 4mm under max COAL but even at 2mm under - the FTX were binding.

I’ve bought some ppu today...insanely expensive - and first shots will be tonight. I’ll single load the FTX until I better understand. Guy at shop said he has heard of FTX actually firing shots in magazine...this had me worried - I might file a mm of point off

Hi Tassie Tiger

Hi Tassie Tiger
Mate, I read that the FTX were designed not to cause rounds to go off in the magazine under recoil. That is one of the reason I loaded them for my Marlin 45-70.
Perhaps it was a different bullet/projectile that cause this to happen.
I also bought some Federal factory rounds for Licenced firearms persons to use my rifle without using up my loaded FTX.
What will you be hunting with your 45-70?

[TassieTiger]

That’s why I bought them as well - their design brief = safe. But recoil in 45 is significant so at least be aware of the potential.

I’ll be hunting roo and deer in heavier forested areas. Its sooo light - perfect carry.

[Blr243]

After you shoot it off a bench let me know how bad it is ( pain ?) so at least I have a bit of warning before I try mine

[TassieTiger]

So the ppu 405gn is a boot akin to a 12g - off hand it’s nothing. On the deck...yeah. It’s not too bad - but you would not want to shoot 50.
The few 325 FTX with 13.5 of trail boss - was nothing. Akin to a 260 or less.
Fun little gun - I’m on paper but I’m using a borrowed 2-7 and 100m at 7 x is still quite a long off hand shot. I taped a 5c piece just as an aim point and I couldn’t see it on 7 x - so, I think I’d like to maybe get a 2-10 or similar.

[Blr243]

Ok thanks. I’ll deal with it. Nothin like a standing off hand shot first for me to test the waters My 325 load is not trail boss ....can’t remember I think I just took my load straight from adi manual

[marksman]

I have loaded up 50 of these , crimped in the can ( and then used the lee fac crimp die to complete the picture, ) but for some reason I did not give it a check regarding cycling ......so I am very glad u posted this.Because otherwise I would not find out about this problem till on my next hunt .. After reading your post I went and checked , and the little red tip binds up due to overall length being too long. It does not work at all. I can’t attempt to seat them deeper now that they are crimped ....so I will just pull those little red tips out and shoot the ammo of like that .....most of the pills for the 4570 are eoither flat nose or hp so they prob are fine. Just these bloody long pointy flex tips from hornady. I’ll have to seat them deeper in future. This stuff up will teach me not to stuff them up again. And tassie, regarding trying some factory ammo first , we all know that factory 4570 is dear as poison but the ppu 4570 is much more reasonable ....hopefully it’s available in your neck of the woods

in fact Blr the proper way to break the crimp is to seat deeper just enough to loosen the crimp but l do like your idea of taking out the tips if the bullet is not then sitting on the primer

[Blr243]

Good tip. Thanks marksman I might give that a whirl

[TassieTiger]

I don’t know how you’d go fully removing the tip - there might be a piece of projectile - metal then touching the next primer in the mag.
The reason these jam so easily, is because the nose is so soft as to not ignite primer in mag - so I’m thinking if you file down the nose to a flat point, you’ll win win - the nose tip won’t catch in the ramp mechanism and there is no chance of an unwanted firing...
I cannot even imagine wtf would happen if the mag tube fired off 3-5 shots at once...I’d hope the tube would be strong enough but either way, I’d have instant heart attack regardless = massive death.

[bladeracer]

I don’t know how you’d go fully removing the tip - there might be a piece of projectile - metal then touching the next primer in the mag.
The reason these jam so easily, is because the nose is so soft as to not ignite primer in mag - so I’m thinking if you file down the nose to a flat point, you’ll win win - the nose tip won’t catch in the ramp mechanism and there is no chance of an unwanted firing...
I cannot even imagine wtf would happen if the mag tube fired off 3-5 shots at once...I’d hope the tube would be strong enough but either way, I’d have instant heart attack regardless = massive death.

The flex tip should come out pretty easily with pliers.
If you're concerned about chain detonation you can file the nose of the bullet down to a larger diameter than a primer.

[TassieTiger]

^ perfect !

[TassieTiger]

To the ? Re case length.
So Ive now measured all my new cases this evening and average is 2.1 inches. Even the fired cases - same. I’ve got the lee case gauge / cutter...but this cuts the case to 2 inches and 1/8 - so is there a way to use that tool to cut the case back to 2.040 as per advice from Bello above ? How do others trim their cases with out the lee? How do you maintain square ?

Some further research and as advised above - if your going to concentrate on 325FTX - probably best to dedicate brass to that round as even hornady shorten their cases significantly to accomodate the longer FTX projectile.
Live and learn - a LOT of learning going on lol.

[Blr243]

From memory I chose the FTx in the interests of a better bc/ traj than u could expect with a flat nose , hp or an xtp. ESP after useing 243 and 22250 , the old slow 458 pills Are not exactly aerodynamic

[TassieTiger]

Blr - they won’t jam with the cases shortened and you’ll still see good FPS.
I’m thinking of buying bulk of ? In FTX and spending some serious time developing a reliable TB load.

[bladeracer]

Blr - they won’t jam with the cases shortened and you’ll still see good FPS.
I’m thinking of buying bulk of ? In FTX and spending some serious time developing a reliable TB load.

Will TB still push the bullet up to its minimum terminal velocity for hunting though?
What does the FTX require, about 1600fps?

[Blr243]

Good points men. I think TT has more time to experiment than me at the moment. I shall keep an eye on this topic and the results

[TassieTiger]

Not sure yet blade - the two I loaded did shoot but we’re not accurate.
On marlin forum, most are using custom dies for crimping aspect. Another advice from marlin forum.
“The Hornady website AND the Lyman 50th Aneversary catalog state that you HAVE to trim the cases to 2.040" for use with the 325 gr .458 dia bullet.
DO NOT use full-length cases with this bullet - it will cause over-pressure in the barrel, and jam the bullet into the rifling. If it even loads, that is.”

Seems the ftx might be more pain than it’s worth..

[Bello]

Hiya Tassie Tiger
I trim my cases using a hand operated Lyman case trimmer and a digital caliper.
I now have bought the Electric Lyman case trimmer, so much better and faster.
I was at my local indoor range, at 50m, it was accurate.
I think you will find this calibre and projectile will have a rainbow trajectory.
My loads are on the hotter side.
I have only used it on one grass hopper and he didn't complain at all.
All the other shots were at targets eg. cans, gongs etc. Just a little fun
I set mine up for close range hard hitting requirements.
I use other calibres for other duties.
If I get a chance, I am one day going to develop a load for my latest toy, 375HH.
Have you tried AR2207 for the powder, this works well for me.

[TassieTiger]

I’ve decided I’m not going to run two classes of brass. It’s not worth it for this firearm.
I’m now looking at hawksbury 350gn lead projectiles - and will decide between the FTX and the 350’s.

If I can get 1800-1900fps with 350 and 1900-2000 with 325 - I’ll be content. I’ll try a few diff powders and trail boss.

[LawrenceA]

Like Bello I have had good results with AR2207.

[milnops]

Not sure yet blade - the two I loaded did shoot but we’re not accurate.
On marlin forum, most are using custom dies for crimping aspect. Another advice from marlin forum.
“The Hornady website AND the Lyman 50th Aneversary catalog state that you HAVE to trim the cases to 2.040" for use with the 325 gr .458 dia bullet.
DO NOT use full-length cases with this bullet - it will cause over-pressure in the barrel, and jam the bullet into the rifling. If it even loads, that is.”

Seems the ftx might be more pain than it’s worth..

That’s why I’ve been buying the factory ftx rounds and keeping the brass, with the intention of reloading 325gr ftx to factory specs