223 For Roos

[Yes]

G'day all,
Wanted to get opinions...
I'm in the market for a 223 that will be used 60% for hunting purposes (Roos) and 40% for target shooting.
I'm also planning on reloading my own ammunition and want to keep it simple - meaning the fewer the well worked up loads the better!
Given 55g projectiles are good (the best?) for Roos, and the 1:12 twist with throw the 55g the most reliably, I was leaning toward the 1:12 twist.
Catch is, I have property big enough to accommodate much longer-range shooting and I feel like I'm missing out if I limit myself to the 1:12 and lighter projectile.
So... In my shoes... What would you choose and why?

[Bello]

Hello Yes
Let me just open that can of worms you just opened a little bit more.
My 223 is my go to caliber for my type of hunting, be it during the day or spotlighting.
I have both a 1/12 twist rifle and also a 1/8 twist.
I find the 55gr V-max is good for thin skinned animal, (in both rifles) I try keep my hunting using this caliber to less than 200 meters. I get about a 1 inch group at 200 meters. It was worked well for ME on rabbits, hares, Roos, foxes and small deer.
My belief in staying ethical in my hunting keeps me and this rifle within 200meters.
If I intend on targeting my quarry further, I would use my 243 or 270 or 308 etc depending on distance and game being hunted.
The 223 is capable of reaching out and touching things further out, but would you be certain with your skill set and the hunting conditions, that you could make the shot?
If you decide to try some shop bought 223, may I suggest you try the OSA 223 blitz king, or game king ammo. Seems to be quite accurate in my rifle. Save you a bit of mucking around.
What brand rifle are you thinking and what distance are you wanting to hunt to?
Will it be a carry rifle or from a vehicle?
What scope and magnification are you leaning towards?

[bladeracer]

G'day all,
Wanted to get opinions...
I'm in the market for a 223 that will be used 60% for hunting purposes (Roos) and 40% for target shooting.
I'm also planning on reloading my own ammunition and want to keep it simple - meaning the fewer the well worked up loads the better!
Given 55g projectiles are good (the best?) for Roos, and the 1:12 twist with throw the 55g the most reliably, I was leaning toward the 1:12 twist.
Catch is, I have property big enough to accommodate much longer-range shooting and I feel like I'm missing out if I limit myself to the 1:12 and lighter projectile.
So... In my shoes... What would you choose and why?

My 8"-twist shoots bullets from 35gn to 80gn equally well.

[Yes]

I'm leaning toward the Tikka T3x Hunter fluted.. I have a T1x in 22 that I like. I was thinking of sticking with a 3-9x40 scope (happy to hear other thoughts).

I'll be on foot a fair bit... But also dirt bike/quad. It's hilly country, so some of it will be getting to the best vantage points then walking from there.

Hunting only to 200m as per the regs on the Roos...

Bladeracer - I've read/heard similar of 1:8 - although I've heard others swear that the 1:12 chucks the 55g more consistently?

[snag]

I specifically bought a 1:9 twist for my current .223 with a view to using 62gr + projectiles for longer ranges. Turns out that up to 200m it performs best with 55 grainers. I think that 55's are pretty much on the sweet spot for.223 regardless of twist.

[in2anity]

I specifically bought a 1:9 twist for my current .223 with a view to using 62gr + projectiles for longer ranges. Turns out that up to 200m it performs best with 55 grainers. I think that 55's are pretty much on the sweet spot for.223 regardless of twist.

Nah not true. Technically the 1:9" is best with 65-75gr projectiles. Perfect for the 69smk; that's what I shoot through my 1:9". Snag I don't doubt your findings, but it's anecdotal. I reckon you just happened on a node with your barrel and the 55gr, which is good luck.

OP the cool kids don't like 1:12s, so there's bargains to be had out there. Just get it rebarreled down the track if you are having troubles with the 55grs. Painless job. Go for it, I say.

[PaddyT]

ive got a Tikka in 1 in 8 . Heaviest pill ive shot is the 64 grain Federal . These shoot really well as does Hornady TAP 60g and OSA 55 G-so i guess my experience matches Bladeracers.

[Yes]

ive got a Tikka in 1 in 8 . Heaviest pill ive shot is the 64 grain Federal . These shoot really well as does Hornady TAP 60g and OSA 55 G-so i guess my experience matches Bladeracers.

Hey Paddy,
If you only go up to 64, which the 1:12 should handle quite well, why a 1:8? To have the option to shoot heavier?

[Bello]

Hi Yes
The Tikka is a nice rifle.
What brand scope are you thinking. Get the best you can afford, you will thank your self later for getting a decent scope.
You don't want a cheap scope that want hold zero after bouncing around on the bike.
For hunting the 3-9 x 40 will do fine.
I like a little more power so mine has a scope with a little more magnification. (Has nothing to do with the fact that I am half blind)
I like my lighter 223 rifle for walking around. The Tikka hunter should serve you well.
The 1/8 twist will allow you to use heavier pills if you want.
In my experiences, the 55gr V-max and 55gr blitz king do all I ask of them.

[straightshooter]

I specifically bought a 1:9 twist for my current .223 with a view to using 62gr + projectiles for longer ranges. Turns out that up to 200m it performs best with 55 grainers. I think that 55's are pretty much on the sweet spot for.223 regardless of twist.

Nah not true. Technically the 1:9" is best with 65-75gr projectiles. Perfect for the 69smk; that's what I shoot through my 1:9". Snag I don't doubt your findings, but it's anecdotal. I reckon you just happened on a node with your barrel and the 55gr, which is good luck.

OP the cool kids don't like 1:12s, so there's bargains to be had out there. Just get it rebarreled down the track if you are having troubles with the 55grs. Painless job. Go for it, I say.

I think someone may have been playing with their node a bit too often.
With a 9" twist and a MV of around 3000 fps a 62 grain SS109 projectile has a close to ideal gyroscopic stability factor of 1.55 which makes it an ideal general purpose twist for that projectile weight and shape. It will however become unstable when it enters into the transsonic velocity zone. That happens at somewhat beyond 600 meters. This also may be one of the reasons some militaries prefer a 7" twist for their 223 caliber.
I haven't done calculations for a 69 gn SMK but have for a Hornady 68 gn which has a GS of 1.35 and the SMK might be slightly lower but should still be adequately stable for shorter ranges. The Hornady 75 gn (the one with red plastic tip) is unstable in a 9" twist having a gyroscopic stability factor less than 1.

[in2anity]

I think someone may have been playing with their node a bit too often.
With a 9" twist and a MV of around 3000 fps a 62 grain SS109 projectile has a close to ideal gyroscopic stability factor of 1.55 which makes it an ideal general purpose twist for that projectile weight and shape. It will however become unstable when it enters into the transsonic velocity zone. That happens at somewhat beyond 600 meters. This also may be one of the reasons some militaries prefer a 7" twist for their 223 caliber.
I haven't done calculations for a 69 gn SMK but have for a Hornady 68 gn which has a GS of 1.35 and the SMK might be slightly lower but should still be adequately stable for shorter ranges. The Hornady 75 gn (the one with red plastic tip) is unstable in a 9" twist having a gyroscopic stability factor less than 1.

Sorry SS, as tempting as it is to bite, I'm not going to sink to the personal insults.

I can do that too, dig out some data about a 75gn, stabilizing O-K in a 1:9", the slightly shorter Hornady 75gr HPBT springs to mind. You seemed to miss the point I was saying, and that is generally a 1:9" is better suited to pills in the 65-75gr region.

[Am88]

You said you wanted to keep it simple, buy a box of Sierra Super Roo's, load them and shoot them. When you see 200m in real life looking through a scope at a roo's head which is where you should be shooting them to keep with whatever regulations your referring to. you will probably try to get closer. 200m does not look far at a range when your looking at an A3 target.

I find when I spotlight them majority of my shots are between 50 and 120ish paces. 120 of my paces is 101 meters. That's flat open country.

[Yes]

Hi Yes
The Tikka is a nice rifle.
What brand scope are you thinking. Get the best you can afford, you will thank your self later for getting a decent scope.
You don't want a cheap scope that want hold zero after bouncing around on the bike.
For hunting the 3-9 x 40 will do fine.
I like a little more power so mine has a scope with a little more magnification. (Has nothing to do with the fact that I am half blind)
I like my lighter 223 rifle for walking around. The Tikka hunter should serve you well.
The 1/8 twist will allow you to use heavier pills if you want.
In my experiences, the 55gr V-max and 55gr blitz king do all I ask of them.

I currently have a Leupold VX-1 3-9x40 on the T1X 22 - I find that has been great so I was thinking of going with the newer VX-Freedom range (supposedly better than the older VX-2 range of scopes?). Happy to hear thoughts on scope options (also happy to spend a more $$ if required).

You said you wanted to keep it simple, buy a box of Sierra Super Roo's, load them and shoot them. When you see 200m in real life looking through a scope at a roo's head which is where you should be shooting them to keep with whatever regulations your referring to. you will probably try to get closer. 200m does not look far at a range when your looking at an A3 target.

I find when I spotlight them majority of my shots are between 50 and 120ish paces. 120 of my paces is 101 meters. That's flat open country.

Yeah, I agree - I think 200m is generous. But it seems there isn't a consensus on twist rate - except that you are capped in the 1:12 to mid-60 grain and MAYBE the 1:12 shoots 55g SLIGHTLY better than the 1:8? That's what makes the decision tough; how much better is the 1:12 throwing 55g? Noticeably at up to that 200m range? Is the accuracy difference in the 1:8 vs 1:12 shooting 55g enough to miss a Roo's head at 200m (all things equal, that seems unlikely?).

[in2anity]

If it's a decent barrel, out of the 1:8", I reckon you should expect 1moa 55gr groups. Minus a bit, if you go searching for something it seems to like. Can be done, but doesn't give you a lot of wiggle room for specifically roo head at 200m. Windage certainly comes into play at 200m, especially with lighter bullets.

[PaddyT]

Original idea was to possibly shoot heavier pills-or at least have a couple in the pocket when im out on an armed bushwalk if i ran into a fallow or a pig, but the 64 grainers are cheap, shoot well and kill effectively inside my shot range-which in most places i take the 223 is inside 150 yards. if im hunting bigger stuff i take a bigger rifle

[Yes]

Original idea was to possibly shoot heavier pills-or at least have a couple in the pocket when im out on an armed bushwalk if i ran into a fallow or a pig, but the 64 grainers are cheap, shoot well and kill effectively inside my shot range-which in most places i take the 223 is inside 150 yards. if im hunting bigger stuff i take a bigger rifle

Yeah, I am thinking along the same lines, bigger projectile, take a different gun.

Maybe I muddied the waters with my desire to have a gun that is great for hunting and just about equally good for targeting. Like anything, one side of the equation will suffer. I think I should go with the best for the hunting side, as there are no consequences of missing my target paper by a couple of inches... same can't be said for shooting an animal.

[PaddyT]

have a look at a Lithgow if you want something that will do both reasonably well-my 308 has a heavy enough barrell that i can put a lot downrange before it heats up much at all-and its damn accurate

[animalpest]

My roo rifle in .223 is Tikka. I shoot plain old Sierra 55 gr Roo Load which are cheap and plenty accurate enough for roos heads out to 200m which is the maximum distance allowed under the National Code.

A 3x-12x would be my choice of scope.

[Yes]

My roo rifle in .223 is Tikka. I shoot plain old Sierra 55 gr Roo Load which are cheap and plenty accurate enough for roos heads out to 200m which is the maximum distance allowed under the National Code.

A 3x-12x would be my choice of scope.

What twist are you using?

[Larry]

Original idea was to possibly shoot heavier pills-or at least have a couple in the pocket when im out on an armed bushwalk if i ran into a fallow or a pig, but the 64 grainers are cheap, shoot well and kill effectively inside my shot range-which in most places i take the 223 is inside 150 yards. if im hunting bigger stuff i take a bigger rifle

Yeah, I am thinking along the same lines, bigger projectile, take a different gun.

Maybe I muddied the waters with my desire to have a gun that is great for hunting and just about equally good for targeting. Like anything, one side of the equation will suffer. I think I should go with the best for the hunting side, as there are no consequences of missing my target paper by a couple of inches... same can't be said for shooting an animal.

In reality you will never get a gun that is a master at both disciplines. of course a custom built target rifle could be used for hunting but it will not be a nice well suited rifle for the purpose of hunting. The scope needs to be much higher magnification. The rifle will much too heavy to be a carry around and the stock not the right shape for off hand shooting. It a topic that comes up over and over again there are rifles that will do both jobs like the Lithgows but they are not really a master of either. It tough but choosing the right tool for the job will give you much more satisfaction in the long run, Of course it will cost more buying two rifles but it in the long run it will be cheaper than having to go through a long process that will end up with the same outcome of two rifles. Work out what you want to do and set your priorities and work towards them doing the research and getting hands of experience before making a commitment. There will be plenty of people willing to show you the pros and cons along the way.

[Diamond Jim]

My .223 is a 1:12 twist. I shoot 55gr almost exclusively and it easily holds in a 1 1/2" circle at 225m (because that's a convenient dam wall on the farm I frequent) and that is plenty accurate enough for me.
My brother and I set up 300ml water bottles on the wall. Starting at opposite ends of the line we race each other to see who can bust the most bottles.
I thought my rifle was 1:9 when I bought it only to discover it was 1:12 when I picked it up. I was annoyed when I learned that but it shoots 55gr so well I don't even think about heavier projectiles now. No roo has ever accused me of being undergunned.

[Am88]

As said mate keep it simple, get a 1:12 twist and go and shoot it. think of reloading cost as well. The super roo's are cheap and plentiful, well at the moment. Do a quick calculation, for example my box of super roo's was $225, 22 cents a shot, for me to buy vmaxs, 33 cents a shot, 11 cents whoopdie doo you say, over the approx 4000 shots out of that particular rifle, I'm up over 400 bucks.

I'm not a tight ass, I shoot swift scirocco's and norma oryx out of my hunting rifles, but when your pumping out rounds there is sometimes an advantage to go a little cheaper.

[in2anity]

In reality you will never get a gun that is a master at both disciplines. of course a custom built target rifle could be used for hunting but it will not be a nice well suited rifle for the purpose of hunting. The scope needs to be much higher magnification. The rifle will much too heavy to be a carry around and the stock not the right shape for off hand shooting. It a topic that comes up over and over again there are rifles that will do both jobs like the Lithgows but they are not really a master of either. It tough but choosing the right tool for the job will give you much more satisfaction in the long run, Of course it will cost more buying two rifles but it in the long run it will be cheaper than having to go through a long process that will end up with the same outcome of two rifles. Work out what you want to do and set your priorities and work towards them doing the research and getting hands of experience before making a commitment. There will be plenty of people willing to show you the pros and cons along the way.

Could not agree more. Many moons ago, once I could afford to start owning my own guns, a respected shooter told me "better to do one thing exceptionally, rather than a few things adequately". If I had of listened to him, I would have saved myself a lot of dollars. Still, it's been a fun journey, an TBH I don't really have any regrets. The end result, my hunting rifle is the polar opposite to my comp guns.

If I was only ever shooting in 200m-or-less positional competitions, 100% I would run the 1:12" + 55grainers. The traditional 223/222 sporting the original 1:12/1:14 + 55gr pills is an absolute tack driver at 200m.

[Yes]

Thanks for all the replies.
I think the 1:12 is likely the way to go... pair it up with a quality 3x9-40 scope and work up some reliable 55g loads and go shoot.

[Am88]

Thanks for all the replies.
I think the 1:12 is likely the way to go... pair it up with a quality 3x9-40 scope and work up some reliable 55g loads and go shoot.

You got it mate, don't over complicate things

[animalpest]

Stock standard 1:12 is all I use.

[Ziege]

1:12 is better for reloading 50 and 55gn pills to their full velocity,

[SCJ429]

I have a 223 in a Tikka Varmint, with a 1:8 twist. It shoots 0.2 inch groups at 100 and under one inch at 300 using 50 grain Vmax. I have used it to bag a 80 kilo goat at 200 metres and foxes at 400 metres. When I rebarrel it I will opt for a 1:14 twist which will spin 50 and 55 grain pills hard enough for me.

[in2anity]

I have a 223 in a Tikka Varmint, with a 1:8 twist. It shoots 0.2 inch groups at 100 and under one inch at 300 using 50 grain Vmax. I have used it to bag a 80 kilo goat at 200 metres and foxes at 400 metres. When I rebarrel it I will opt for a 1:14 twist which will spin 50 and 55 grain pills hard enough for me.

Why rebarrel it different then?

[Yes]

I have a 223 in a Tikka Varmint, with a 1:8 twist. It shoots 0.2 inch groups at 100 and under one inch at 300 using 50 grain Vmax. I have used it to bag a 80 kilo goat at 200 metres and foxes at 400 metres. When I rebarrel it I will opt for a 1:14 twist which will spin 50 and 55 grain pills hard enough for me.

Why rebarrel it different then?

Thinking the same thing?