New shooter - first rifle/s

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New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Pinkmus » 13 Dec 2020, 9:20 pm

Hi all, been learning lots reading posts on this forum. Very new to firearms and currently waiting on my licence to come through (Canberra region).

Have been out hunting with a mate but otherwise have very little experience. I'm trying to figure out what type of rifle I should go for.

I'm looking at doing rec hunting + recreational target shooting and eventually getting an r licence to put meat in the freezer for myself and my dogs. Thinking of starting with a 223 but realised that this will limit me in terms of game I can hunt.

With my budget I'd be able to afford two budget rifles, ammunition, safe, optics etc but probably can't get two tikkas/lithgows etc.

Are the Howa 1500s in a stainless sporter barrel a good choice for me? Thinking of one in 223 to use at the range (practice) and hunting and a 308 mainly for hunting. Or should I get a "higher quality" 223 and then slowly save up for a 308?

Appreciate any advice. Thankyou.

Cheers,

Will.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Blr243 » 14 Dec 2020, 6:31 am

Is a tikka likely to be more accurate than the howa ? I think the extra price of a tikka or sauer might be justified if there was a guaranteed significant level of accuracy improvement over a howa. I think it’s a good idea to Buy one rifle first and shoot it for a while before u decide on the cal of the next. A223 sounds like a sensible first choice
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by juano86 » 14 Dec 2020, 7:50 am

Welcome!
What an exciting conundrum to have. buying that first rifle is an awesome experience.

No love for the ol' .22lr? you can target shoot for days for a very low cost and it does wonders for learning the fundamentals of shooting... You can pick up pretty good second hand .22's.

Depending on what you plan on hunting (bar Sambar in Vic) a .243 could be a good low-cost option and the Howa's are exceptional value for money and accurate. If you do plan on heading south for deer, a .308 would would be a sufficient option if ammo cost is a factor.

I own both Tikka's and Howa's and both are more accurate than me. The smoother action and lighter weight would be the only real difference in the price tag between them. Howa for a first rifle gets my vote :thumbsup:
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by JimmyS » 14 Dec 2020, 8:32 am

For your 308, I'll advise a Zastava M70. Fingers crossed the shop has them either in stock, or with their supplier in Aus.

Nice woodgrain, iron sights as a backup. Personally I'd never go out in the field without irons. Mauser action, so you can't go wrong with it. Holds 4 in the internal magazine.

https://www.qldgunexchange.com/zastava- ... ights.html

Sensational rifle to shoot, and you'll get a few looks at the range as well. All for <1,500.00
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by ThatNewGuy » 14 Dec 2020, 8:53 am

A Lithgow LA102 is also a very viable choice in synthetic or either of the wood options they are made in 223 and 308 and in my experience both shoot exceptionally well (better than I), plus you get to support an Australian company that made our 303s from 1915 onwards.
I just wanted something here...

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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by in2anity » 14 Dec 2020, 9:37 am

Howas are solid. The 1500 is a proven design. And 223 is a capable round, within reason. If you get a 1:8" twist that'll give you options for target shooting also. Nevertheless Tikka barrels are up there with the best factory barrels on the market; there a helluva lot more Tikkas on the line than their are Howas. Although I compete with a Howa 223 sometimes.... and a Tikka 308. Both good guns.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Bello » 14 Dec 2020, 10:32 am

Hi Pinkmus

My advise to all beginners in hunting is to hone your skills on a 22LR. Become comfortable with shooting, holding a rifle cycling the action etc. The 22 is a cheap and effective way to hone those skills.
Maybe your mate can lend you his, to practice on. When you feel comfortable, then move up to a larger calibre.

Larger calibres have more recoil and muzzle blast which can cause unwanted habits such as flinching, jerking trigger closing eyes etc, for new shooters.

Don't limit yourself to only new rifles. There are some good quality well looked after rifles on the second hand gun sites.
Try also to get a decent scope. This may take a little longer to save for what you want, but its better to have what you want than make do with something you don't really like.

The calibres you have mentioned 223 and 308 will serve you well. They have lots of ammunition choices in gun shops.
Do your research prior to buying a rifle. Some gun shops are like car yards, they only want to sell you what they have in stock, not what may server you well. Ask lots of questions, be comfortable in your own mind about the combination rifle/scope you want to buy. This site has lots of people with lots of knowledge and most of all lots of experience, be it sometime only personal experience, but we are all out to further our sport and assist anyone who asks.

Happy hunting :drinks:
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by boingk » 14 Dec 2020, 12:26 pm

Hi mate, welcome aboard.

If you're after a first rifle a 223 is a solid choice. They are very versatile, ammunition is reasonably priced and widely available, and if you're after kangaroos, goats, wild dogs/cats & foxes then they are hard to beat. The cartridge itself is an ideal entry into centrefire rifles as the recoil isn't too severe yet produces good results downrang.

The 308 is the next step up - an official marksman cartridge of many military organisations worldwide and very much at home on larger game and longer ranges. They're more suited to creatures like deer, pigs, etc. If this is the sort of game you are targeting then I'd go for a 308. Mind you, this is a lot of rifle for a first-timer!

I'd highly recommend the Ruger American if you are on a budget. They are well priced rifles with no frills, but are quite accurate right out of the box and come with an adjustable two-stage trigger. I've got two (308 and 450 Bushmaster) with a 223 on the way. Both the 308 and 450 I have will easily shoot 1" at 100m. They start about $800 for the bare rifle.

I've topped my 308 with a Leupold Rifleman 4-12x40 scope. Its a good all-rounder and about all you need for real-world hunting in terms of magnification. I run Leupolds almost exclusively as they are a great scope for the money and have a lifetime warranty. It was about $450 when I bought it, so that would be $1250 for the entire package. Very hard to beat for the money.

Check out a review on the Ruger here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lurfn3QQsEc

Cheers - boingk

EDIT: Just noticed Cleaver Firearms has the "AMERICAN SUPER PACKAGE" in 308 for $1090. Thats the rifle, 3-9x40 scope & mounts, plus an aftermarket 10-round magazine. Thats a cracking deal if you decide you want to get a 308.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Die Judicii » 14 Dec 2020, 2:39 pm

Welcome Mate,
On the basis of what you have said, I offer the following;
Howas are incredibly accurate with little or no tinkering, and to fill your needs, I would look at getting two Howas in whatever calibers
you decide, eg. A varmint barreled .223 for range/target work
and,
A sporter barreled .308 for hunting purposes

Blued or Stainless is your choice. (I like stainless and wrap the barrels etc with the camo material wrap that clings to itself)

I own Howa's, Sako's, and Tikka's.

The top of the range Sako's have an unmistakable feel of quality (especially genuine timber stocks) about them and are very accurate.
The Tikka's are (usually) very accurate, but in my opinion FWIW are vastly over rated. The most recent one I had (brand new) had a multitude
of issues that had to be rectified including the finish of the timber stock, the trigger, the recoil lug, and the bore itself.
Howa's (I own four) are as I said, incredibly accurate, very well finished, little or no tinkering, reliable and cost far less than a Tikka or Sako.
The only issue I have is their weight in general, but it hasn't stopped me from buying them. (One 22/250, One .223 and two .308)

What you save buying a Howa will generally go well towards a good scope. :drinks:
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Die Judicii » 14 Dec 2020, 2:47 pm

juano86 wrote:Welcome!
If you do plan on heading south for deer, a .308 would would be a sufficient option if ammo cost is a factor.:


You shouldn't have to head "south" to get deer.
Plenty in the ranges around your area,,,,,,, especially the Tinderrie Mountains. :thumbsup:
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by SCJ429 » 14 Dec 2020, 7:35 pm

As others have said, the Howa is a proven action and I have seen a few chambered in 223 that shoot very well. A popular QLD funshop sell them starting from $300. I don't own one but have worked up loads for a few. I have seen a few 308 Howa barrels that were quite rough.

Then look around for a better quality second rifle, hopefully something European.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Pinkmus » 14 Dec 2020, 9:04 pm

Thanks guys. Really appreciate the help. Only reason I didn't look at a .22 was to avoid having to purchase multiple firearms. However the more I learn about shooting/hunting the more I realise you need multiple firearms. I was going to borrow my mates 22lr but was told I'm not allowed to shoot someone else's firearm since I have an ACT licence. The purchase cost would be very quickly offset by the cheaper ammunition.

I'll have a look at some heavier barrelled 223s and 22lr (possibly Howa short action 223 stainless) since it will be used at the range. I guess I'll just have to toughen up if I need to carry it around hunting. Then hopefully when I've learnt how to shoot properly I'll look at a lighter 308 for hunting. Definitely agree that I need to learn on a light shooting rifle and I'm not exactly a big guy :lol:

Realistically speaking it will take some time till I can hunt deer/larger game so the 223 will do initially.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by in2anity » 14 Dec 2020, 9:33 pm

Have a look at the howa “Mini” Action. A trimmer bolt than the SA, shedding a little weight. The so-called “varmint” contour for the mini can shoot small groups. Just be aware they used to be a 1:9” - which is perfectly fine, except if you need to really stretch it and use a 75gr+ pill.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by boingk » 14 Dec 2020, 10:32 pm

Pinkmus wrote:Thanks guys. Really appreciate the help.

I'll have a look at some heavier barrelled 223s and 22lr (possibly Howa short action 223 stainless) since it will be used at the range. I guess I'll just have to toughen up if I need to carry it around hunting. Then hopefully when I've learnt how to shoot properly I'll look at a lighter 308 for hunting. Definitely agree that I need to learn on a light shooting rifle and I'm not exactly a big guy :lol:

Realistically speaking it will take some time till I can hunt deer/larger game so the 223 will do initially.


That's the way mate, you'll find plenty of good help here. There are many much more knowledgable and experienced than myself.

One caveat...

If you do go a rifle for hunting, whatever it is, make sure it is well balanced. I recently sold an otherwise very nicely shooting 223 because the heavy barrel made it almost useless for hunting - it was horribly forward heavy. While great at the range with a rest or bipod, to take offhand shots it was very uncomfortable either kneeling or standing.

If you have a rifle make sure it'll do what you want in the field - range be damned. You can always cool a barrel down at the range but in the field a missed opportunity will stay with you. I've found a thin barrel cools much quicker than a thicker one plus it'll get on target quicker, follow one easier, and be less fatiguing to carry.

If you get something for the range I'd make it a 22. Hell, my little Norinco (branded 'Puma JW15') cost $200 brand new and rivalled my $900 CZ... it bothered me so much I sold the CZ. Invariably no matter what you take to the range the 22 will get a workout - my mates and I tend to take two rifles and end up plinking cans at 200m with the 22's haha. Great fun.

Anyway, some food for thought.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Diamond Jim » 15 Dec 2020, 3:29 am

If you are new to shooting then, hands down, a .22LR should be the first rifle you buy. Plenty of rifles that won't break the budget and a good quality second hand rifle will likely come with a scope already set up.
I don't own a Howa but my brother does (.223) and he regularly outshoots owners (me) of rifles costing several times that of his Howa. They are great value and his is very accurate. His trigger was not as nice as some more expensive rifles but was easily remedied for minimal cost.
If you are after deer then I understand some states have minimum calibre requirements so a .308 seems like a good all-round option for accuracy, effectiveness and affordability whether you are hunting or punching paper. A .308 is a big step up from the .22LR so be ready for that and enjoy.
Sadly we don't have deer in WA and hunting on crown land is forbidden, no hunting seasons of any kind so I have no first-hand experience with such game. My experience is limited to feral animal control on private property.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Pinkmus » 15 Dec 2020, 8:05 am

Looks like I'll be getting a .22lr to learn on and then I'll have a look at an intermediate centrefire for hunting (223, 243 or similar) before thinking about a 308 (due to the minimum caliber for the larger deer species). Might be able to get something a little heavier than the 223 if I have the 22lr to practice and learn on.

Considering I found a 300 blackout out of a Ruger ranch rifle fairly loud, it's probably best.

Thankyou for the sensible advice!
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Die Judicii » 15 Dec 2020, 9:46 am

Pinkmus wrote:Looks like I'll be getting a .22lr to learn on and then I'll have a look at an intermediate centrefire for hunting (223, 243 or similar) before thinking about a 308 (due to the minimum caliber for the larger deer species). Might be able to get something a little heavier than the 223 if I have the 22lr to practice and learn on.

Considering I found a 300 blackout out of a Ruger ranch rifle fairly loud, it's probably best.

Thankyou for the sensible advice!


Don't let "how loud" a rifle is put you off or cloud your judgment. (that's why ear protection was invented) :D

And, if your hearing is a tad on the extra sensitive side (nothing wrong with that) you'll most likely get better results accuracy wise
if using good quality hearing protection, which has been proven.

After all, (as a sweeping statement) there is no sense in buying a eg; .22 rf and using subsonics when you ultimately want to hunt deer with .308
Simply buy what is best suited for the task at hand, and use good hearing protection. :thumbsup:
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Diamond Jim » 15 Dec 2020, 3:10 pm

Plus 1 on hearing protection - even with .22LR sub-sonics. I may get laughed at but I have hearing damage from shooting without hearing protection as a youngster. The Dr said it is the classic diagnostic loss curve from exposure to shooting. The high frequencies are particularly affected and they match the report from a .22LR. It may not seem very loud at the time but it's cumulative damage over years. Always wear hearing protection when shooting - always! In addition to more expensive passive and active earmuffs I always carry disposable earplugs from the big hardware store as a cheap backup. I keep spares with my shooting gear, in gun cases, range bag etc.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by snag » 15 Dec 2020, 7:07 pm

The Open Range in Toowoomba Qld has a new Haenel Jaeger .223 on used guns for $799.Would be a lovely set-up if you put a Leupold 3-9 x 40 scope on it. I love spending other people's money........
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by boingk » 19 Dec 2020, 12:55 am

Diamond Jim wrote:Always wear hearing protection when shooting - always! In addition to more expensive passive and active earmuffs I always carry disposable earplugs from the big hardware store as a cheap backup. I keep spares with my shooting gear, in gun cases, range bag etc.


I can't emphasise this enough.

Carry spare foamies in your range kit, use proper over-ears, and A L W A Y S use them. Every time.

- boingk
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Dec 2020, 10:00 am

22lr
12g
223
308 or similar

Will cover almost everything
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by BigB1 » 27 Dec 2020, 6:17 pm

I went with a Tikka in 243 as my first rifle, couldnt be happier. Sighted it in at 100m then progressively stretched its legs out to 500m in 100m steps on my first day. Ripper day!
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Pinkmus » 28 Dec 2020, 1:35 pm

Cheers guys. Went down to the lgs and had a chat, they recommended a 22. I'll get a 22 first but wouldn't mind getting a centrefire at the same time (223/243). Managed to get permission to shoot/pest control on a rural property (plenty of rabbits, foxes , maybe pigs but not so sure) so I'll add that onto my licence.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Pinkmus » 11 Jan 2021, 7:22 pm

Putting my PTAs in tomorrow! Put a deposit down on a cz 455 pro varmint in 22lr (slightly older model but I don't think there are massive differences to the 457). Bit tacticool but I liked how it felt especially with the 16.5 inch barrel.

Also put a deposit on a mauser M18 in 308 (boring but seems like a logical choice) Hopefully it's not too much gun for me but seems fairly solid apart from the removable part of the buttstock... Hopefully will be suitable for general deer and pig hunting. Lgs didn't have any Howas but the Mauser seems like a decent choice.

Burris glass will have to do for now.

I got so excited I left without taking the safe I bought :lol:

Thanks for all your help.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Lsfan » 11 Jan 2021, 8:00 pm

Will be interesting to see how you go. I’m a new shooter too and after reading many reviews, I’ve also got a cz455 on lay-by awaiting PTA’s to come in the next few days. My purpose at the moment is only target shooting at the range. Also put an air rifle in lay by. In future I was thinking a howa 223 but Mausers also look like good value.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Pinkmus » 11 Feb 2021, 10:16 am

Finally got my rifles! Had a lot of fun at the range yesterday but will definitely need lots of practice with both. Should get used to the recoil from the 308 with time but I assume it's generally at it's worst off the bench. Having only ever shot a 233 a handful of times it was a bit more than I expected, :lol:

Thanks for all your help and advice, everyone in the shooting world seems really helpful which made it much easier for me to get into.

Cheers,

Will.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by boingk » 11 Feb 2021, 2:33 pm

Good to hear mate! Nice looking pair of rifles, too, and able to cover most situations if you go hunting as well.

A few trips to the range and you'll be settled in to the 308, don't you worry. The most important part is making sure you have fun.

Cheers - boingk
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by in2anity » 11 Feb 2021, 9:31 pm

As you have identified, I would recommend limiting the 308 bench shooting. A light hunting rifle chambered in 308 is not a bench gun. It should be shot from tight in the pocket, i.e. “driven” by the shooter. Best to practice bench shooting with the 223.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Feb 2021, 6:55 am

308 will be fine in the field.

Just need a 22lr now. He he.
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Re: New shooter - first rifle/s

Post by Bugman » 12 Feb 2021, 9:30 am

A friend of mine has the same question as your post, Pinkmus, and I suggested that he have a look at what you were offered in advice (by checking out the website and joining,) make a note of what make, model, caliber etc was mentioned, then do some research via reviews etc. Way up the pros and cons of each and see if that doesn't help you in your decision. Sounds a bit long winded? Maybe a bit, but that's what I do before any firearm and associated equipment purchase, then add it to my own experience. Hope you get what you are after.
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