No.5 MK1 Jungle Carbine

[JJD]

Hey fellas. I’ve finally picked up a Jungle Carbine after wanting one for a very long time. I’m hoping to pick your brain on a few things:

Identification:
I can’t seem to match the serial number H1990 to a production at Fazakerley or Shirley. The usual Enfield identification on the left of the receiver has been scrubbed clean and all I can make out is the very start and end “No.5...........990”. The same serial number is also stamped on the bolt and the stock. The seller seemed to think the rifle may have been used and possibly refurbished in India after WW2. Makes sense to me with the odd serial and missing markings but I’d like to know more. I will attach more photos.

Condition:
Overall very functional condition. Part of me would love to jump straight in and refinish the metal and wood but I know I shouldn’t. The stock is loose, when I hold the rear grip I can wiggle the fore end wood slightly from side to side and up and down. I’ll be doing a tear down soon to give everything a good clean and have planned to space/shim the stock to eliminate the stock moving. Any suggestions on a material that would be good for this? Or if there is a better solution?

Thanks!

[JJD]

Serial

[JJD]

Bolt

[JJD]

Bolt

[JJD]

Stock

[No1Mk3]

G'day JJD,
Re-finishing the metal and woodwork will completely wreck the collectibility and therefore value of your No5. Yours is almost certainly an Ishapore FTR rifle having what appears to be an "Ishy screw" forward of the front trigger guard screw and it is worth carefully examining the butt for Indian stamps. With regard the fore-end, you cannot shim this, the rifles accuracy depends totally on the fit of the action to the socket and body, the draws on your rifle sound like they need replacing and this is a job for someone familiar with the work but if you have good carpentry skills you may try it yourself. It is worth having this rifle repaired, the No5 is great fun and can shoot well when properly stocked up as the so called "wandering zero" does not affect all of them. The wife and I are taking ours to Warnnambool this weekend, as are a few others of the "Order of the No5's" to try our hand against the Mauser fanboys over 500 yards, Any more info/help just ask, I know a few people with No5;s as well as a few ex-armourers, Cheers.

[JJD]

Thanks for the info as always No1Mk3! Your replies on this forum have helped me a lot over the last few years. I’ll definitely be doing a lot of research into that work and having a good examination of the internals before I have a crack at fixing the stock.

[in2anity]

Hi JJD. To me it sounds like the butt stock it loose, rather than the forend necessarily. Is this the case? Put it this way is the forend moving relative to the barreled action?

[JJD]

Yep the fore end is moving relative to the action. The butt stock has no movement from the action.

[in2anity]

And does the pivot point seem to be around the king screw at the front of the trigger guard, or is their movement occurring there also?

[JJD]

Good question mate. Just went for another look. There’s definitely some pivot from the king screw. If I pull the trigger (uncocked) it causes the bottom wood to fall down at the back end, pivot at the king screw and rise up at front end. Also looking at the barrel where it emerges from the wood you can basically wiggle the wood in any direction to touch the barrel. I just took the top and bottom wood off and the thing is filthy with mud and crud. Will go back in tomorrow with a toothbrush. So likely story is something needs to be built up a bit around the king screw pillar?

[in2anity]

If the king screw is acting sort of like the anchor, as No1 suggested it sounds like a problem with the draws. I’ll try and dig out some literature about potential draws repairs. I put up a post about bedding a no4 in the gunsmithing category- the wd40+talc trick will show you how she beds and immediately show a draw problem.

[JJD]

Okay I had no idea about the draws. Just got a good idea of the problem here
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16377

[JJD]

The draws don’t actually look to bad (from my limited understanding) They look even and they’re not worn down.

[in2anity]

interesting. that's a good thing, the draws are one of the more involved things to repair. A common problem is the wood shrinks further than the king screw, meaning the king screw bottoms out before nipping the trigger guard up tight onto the timber. Did you have a read of this? viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14098 particularly the part 4 down the bottom. I suggest counting the turns when tightening up you king screw with the forend removed, then do it again with the forend back in place, to see if the number of turns is the same. If it's the same, that could explain the wobble. Also do you have the king screw bushing and potentially the king screw washer?

[JJD]

You are spot on mate. I do have the bushing and washer. The king screw turns to exactly the same depth with and without the bottom wood. The king screw stops just shy of clamping down properly on the bottom wood. My thoughts are filing the bushing down very slightly bit by bit until I get a good fit and it all tightens up. I know taking too much off the bushing or not using it at all could result in over tightening and cracking the wood.

[in2anity]

You are spot on mate. I do have the bushing and washer. The king screw turns to exactly the same depth with and without the bottom wood. The king screw stops just shy of clamping down properly on the bottom wood. My thoughts are filing the bushing down very slightly bit by bit until I get a good fit and it all tightens up. I know taking too much off the bushing or not using it at all could result in over tightening and cracking the wood.

And it's not the bushing that's causing this right? I.e. the number of turns is the same with and without the bushing removed?

[JJD]

I just tried without the bushing. King screw turns in an extra 2 1/4 turns before stopping. But presumably doing that with the wood in place would crack it? So I think I need the bushing it just needs to be a little shorter?

[in2anity]

Yes it sounds like the bushing is now the incorrect length for your (shrunken) timber. A common problem. No I would not expect you to crack the timber with the bushing removed, although perhaps don't torque it up super tight. If you assemble the forend with the bushing removed, tightening the screw moderately, does it take away the wiggle you have observed?

[JJD]

Yeah with the bushing removed it all tightened up nicely. I’ve filled the bushing bit by bit and got it to a good length now and the wiggle is gone. f***ing chuffed as. It’s a different rifle without the loose stock. Gave it a good clean too now all I need to do is shoot it. Thanks a million for your help mate! You guys are the best.

[in2anity]

Yeah with the bushing removed it all tightened up nicely. I’ve filled the bushing bit by bit and got it to a good length now and the wiggle is gone. f***ing chuffed as. It’s a different rifle without the loose stock. Gave it a good clean too now all I need to do is shoot it. Thanks a million for your help mate! You guys are the best.

Awesome well done mate, glad it was as simple as that. Now go shoot some groups! Lots of handloading to experiment with. If you want to move to the next level, you could consider bedding the action as outlined in that other post. However maybe it'll shoot "well enough" as-is