Is the 308 really THAT bad?

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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Larry » 16 Feb 2021, 8:48 am

Bigrich why do you find it boring? Because it works so consistently? It certainly has enough punch to take down anything in Aus pretty reliably I would never be worried that it might not take down anything I am shooting at.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by in2anity » 16 Feb 2021, 8:50 am

bigrich have you done much comp shooting? the way i see a caliber, if it's bringing home the medals then i like it...
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Larry » 16 Feb 2021, 8:54 am

Calibre is not really a factor in a lot of competitions as they are broken up into class's which are often calibre related. Then in some comps you are allowed to use a different gun for different ranges so people change guns depending on distance and weather conditions.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 16 Feb 2021, 9:16 am

Larry wrote:Bigrich why do you find it boring? Because it works so consistently? It certainly has enough punch to take down anything in Aus pretty reliably I would never be worried that it might not take down anything I am shooting at.


Exactly Larry, it’s reliable and boring ;)
It doesn’t appeal to the historical interest or “uniqueness “ . 8x57, 6.5x55, 358win have interest to me
Owning a 308 is like driving your SS commodore and parking in the car park full of SS commodores . Everybody’s got the same thing. I’m relating to this from a hunting rifle perspective
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Hatchet Jack » 16 Feb 2021, 9:30 am

By 1906 we had the 6.5x55, 7x57, 9.3x62, 450/400 NE and 30-06. Everything since then is just marketing.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 16 Feb 2021, 12:12 pm

Hatchet Jack wrote:By 1906 we had the 6.5x55, 7x57, 9.3x62, 450/400 NE and 30-06. Everything since then is just marketing.


Not quite, the 222, 22-250, and 243 deserve a mention. As does 25-06, 257 Roberts, 358 Norma , :lol:
They’re all interesting to me for different reasons :thumbsup:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Feb 2021, 1:28 pm

Hey bigrich did the new sako arrive yet?
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by grumpy308 » 16 Feb 2021, 1:29 pm

The F standard shooters have had to perform better to achieve scores equal to or better than the Open shooters over a competition such as a Queens. Both classes of rifle are capable of the same grouping ability as far as accuracy is concerned but the standard rifle has twice the wind drift of the open rifle in any given wind condition. Therefor a wind change that goes unseen will shift the standard rifle twice as far as the open rifle. A 3/4 minute wind change for a standard rifle(3/8 for the open one) will equate to a dropped point where the same change for an open rifle only deflects it half as much and will not take it out of the approx 1 minute diameter top scoring ring. So in changing conditions where there is anything more than 1/2 minute(for a standard rifle) wind changes it is twice as easy to not drop points with the open rifle. When a standard rifle has higher scores than an open rifle at a major competition over various ranges out to 1000 yards such as a Queens they have certainly kicked arse. Regards Malcolm.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by RoginaJack » 16 Feb 2021, 1:52 pm

You missed a couple - 375 H&H and 303 British...
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 16 Feb 2021, 3:43 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Hey bigrich did the new sako arrive yet?


yes mate , my 270 win 1972 sako L61 is happily living in my safe :D with fireformed cases i am getting .8" groups at 100 out of the original barrel with re22 and 150 sst's . that'll do me . for the moment :P

still waiting for the PTA to clear on my M55 243 tikka :cry:

back on topic, i don't think anyone can say a 308 is bad :unknown: i'd like a valmet or m14 in 308 :P
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 16 Feb 2021, 3:48 pm

RoginaJack wrote:You missed a couple - 375 H&H and 303 British...


yes, i missed them . better add 35 whelen and 404 jefferies while i think of it :P

and hey , 303-25 still exists cause it's a bloody good round . especially if it's ackley improved
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by SCJ429 » 16 Feb 2021, 5:59 pm

bigrich wrote:
Larry wrote:Bigrich why do you find it boring? Because it works so consistently? It certainly has enough punch to take down anything in Aus pretty reliably I would never be worried that it might not take down anything I am shooting at.


Exactly Larry, it’s reliable and boring ;)
It doesn’t appeal to the historical interest or “uniqueness “ . 8x57, 6.5x55, 358win have interest to me
Owning a 308 is like driving your SS commodore and parking in the car park full of SS commodores . Everybody’s got the same thing. I’m relating to this from a hunting rifle perspective

A 308 is more like a Toyota Camry, appeals to conservative drivers who go with a safe practical option. A V8 Commodore would be more like a 300 WSM or Win Mag.

How many guys have a 223 and a 308 and then something a bit special like a 338 RUM? None, they cannot move out of their comfort zone. Most would never have heard of a 450/400 Jeffery let alone wanted to own one.☹️
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Ziege » 16 Feb 2021, 7:16 pm

I dont own a 308, probably never will, but thats because I favour some other things over it, like the 300 win, however it doesnt matter for the most part, re-accuracy/wind etc, most amateur shooters are out by many MOA just on technique when it comes to stretching out to longer distance. heartbeat, breathing, shaking, flinching, "massey ferguson clutch dump trigger pulls" as someone on here once said. so whether the 6.5cm shoots "better" sub MOA means little when the shooter is out as much or more. and as for MOA a great many calibres can be very sub moa, including many that target purists claim aren't, its what happens down range that matters most and many people aren't skilled at compensating for that or simply dont put in the time/effort. hence a bloke with a 308 can outshoot a 6.5cm just as much as so can someone shooting a 300-378. its all in the skill and discipline of the shooter, not so much the firearm/calibre.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by boingk » 16 Feb 2021, 7:25 pm

SCJ429 wrote:How many guys have a 223 and a 308 and then something a bit special like a 338 RUM? None, they cannot move out of their comfort zone. Most would never have heard of a 450/400 Jeffery let alone wanted to own one.☹️


*Raises hand*

223, 308, 25-303, 45-70... list goes on. I need to thin the herd a bit but those four aren't going anywhere.

The way I see it if you can't hit a bunny at 100m then it's not worth having. Mightn't sound impressive but there are so many rifles in safes (or not) around the country that wouldn't even reach that standard.

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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by SCJ429 » 16 Feb 2021, 7:32 pm

What sort of calibres do "target purists" claim are not up to shooting an inch at 100 or MOA?

Why would they care about other non competitive calibres? I would think that they would be impressed by a bloke getting 1/2 inch group out of a 45/70 or similar.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by boingk » 16 Feb 2021, 7:34 pm

SCJ429 wrote:What sort of calibres do "target purists" claim are not up to shooting an inch at 100 or MOA?

Why would they care about other non competitive calibres? I would think that they would be impressed by a bloke getting 1/2 inch group out of a 45/70 or similar.


I gotta admit, I do love taking the good old 45-70 and ripping sub-MOA groups with its whopping 4 power scope all while set atop my folded gun bag.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by SCJ429 » 16 Feb 2021, 7:36 pm

boingk wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:How many guys have a 223 and a 308 and then something a bit special like a 338 RUM? None, they cannot move out of their comfort zone. Most would never have heard of a 450/400 Jeffery let alone wanted to own one.☹️


*Raises hand*

223, 308, 25-303, 45-70... list goes on. I need to thin the herd a bit but those four aren't going anywhere.

The way I see it if you can't hit a bunny at 100m then it's not worth having. Mightn't sound impressive but there are so many rifles in safes (or not) around the country that wouldn't even reach that standard.

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You are a rare breed there Boing. Bet you drive a Camry but have Mustang in the back of your shed too.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by boingk » 16 Feb 2021, 7:40 pm

SCJ429 wrote:You are a rare breed there Boing. Bet you drive a Camry but have Mustang in the back of your shed too.


'93 Commo wagon. May as well be a Camry haha. '77 F100 4WD 351C monster in the back yard :twisted:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by SCJ429 » 16 Feb 2021, 7:43 pm

1977 F Series, I love your style.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Veetwin » 22 Apr 2021, 3:10 pm

Getting back in, waiting for a 308 pta
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by SCJ429 » 23 Apr 2021, 7:29 pm

Veetwin wrote:Getting back in, waiting for a 308 pta

What sort of Vee Twin? European, Japanese or American?
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by boingk » 25 Apr 2021, 10:26 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
Veetwin wrote:Getting back in, waiting for a 308 pta

What sort of Vee Twin? European, Japanese or American?


Both here. Honda VTR1000F and HD Sportster.

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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by ZaineB » 29 Apr 2021, 1:17 am

is it terrible? no, is it amazing? no. are there rounds more capable of accuracy? of course there is

however what's your poison? what costs are you happy to incur and what drama do you want to go through with the various authorities to acquire the rifle?

My experience with shooting 30cal is that the 308 is a wee bit of a slouch compared to its two main 30cal bigger bros, the 30-06 and the 300win. however, the bullets themselves can be more than capable for someone willing to spend the time learning the ballistics and nuances. from my experience shooting rounds between the 0.450 and 0.480 G1 BC so 150gn to 168gn and the higher end of weights being the likes of Lapua Scenar with a G1 BC of 0.482, these BC's allow for great accuracy and in most cases more than enough to land a possible at 1000m, but yeah does the old 308 measure up to something like a 375 cheytac? no way, with a BC in the realms of G1 .990 the cheytac is a much more likely candidate for accuracy and hitting power and longer flight at supersonic speeds. but can you use a cheytac for 30 cal prices? never.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by SCJ429 » 29 Apr 2021, 7:44 am

ZaineB wrote:is it terrible? no, is it amazing? no. are there rounds more capable of accuracy? of course there is
shooting rounds between the 0.450 and 0.480 G1 BC so 150gn to 168gn and the higher end of weights being the likes of Lapua Scenar with a G1 BC of 0.482, these BC's allow for great accuracy and in most cases more than enough to land a possible at 1000m, ever.


Does a higher BC bullet offer potentially higher accuracy? In short range bench rest the lower BC bullets dominate over VLD designs.

The advantage of higher BC bullets is apparent at longer ranges where the design allows you to retain speed to buck the wind and shorten flight time. It may also allow your bullet to arrive at your target without the buffeting it gets when it moves through the transonic period.

Some 230 grain VLD have better BC figures than a 168 grain VLD but when used in a 308 case the 168 grain bullet will perform better because the 308 does not have the horsepower to power the 230 grain bullet.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by in2anity » 29 Apr 2021, 8:45 am

Look I'm not saying you guys are wrong (you are not), but those fancy calibers just make it easier for beginners. Just point and shoot, whilst conveniently ignoring the flags/mirage/splash. I don't even shoot F, but the F open douches I regularly hear frothing over that "cheytac" mod-con, with all their latest gear - they never come close to the top during the bigger events. As I stipulated in the OP, the crusty old veterans can still hit the Xs, and win, with their venerable 308. I suppose if they used a "cheytac", their scores would be even better ;)
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by CT hillbilly » 29 Apr 2021, 5:12 pm

I have a mod 7600p in 308 and I like it 16” barrel for close combat piggy missions on the river running a 10 shot lucky 13 mag does me fine? BTW first ever post so hi to all don’t no how to start a topic yet ( amiture)
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by ZaineB » 29 Apr 2021, 6:15 pm

in2anity wrote:Look I'm not saying you guys are wrong (you are not), but those fancy calibers just make it easier for beginners. Just point and shoot, whilst conveniently ignoring the flags/mirage/splash. I don't even shoot F, but the F open douches I regularly hear frothing over that "cheytac" mod-con, with all their latest gear - they never come close to the top during the bigger events. As I stipulated in the OP, the crusty old veterans can still hit the Xs, and win, with their venerable 308. I suppose if they used a "cheytac", their scores would be even better ;)



much the same could be said for some earlier calibers vs the experienced long range shooters using 45-70 slugs. if there is someone with experience shooting long distance with a caliber vs someone with little experience, then that experience will count more than the cartridge because someone throwing lead with no idea is never going to match a veteran shooter.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by solarpak » 29 Apr 2021, 9:32 pm

the 308 is as boring as the 30-06 as is the 7x57 and 8x57 ......the latter three over 100 years old and still doing it.......

If your inclined to shoot a magnum - so be it - but in 30 years of hunting - so far- i havent needed a permanent magnum in my rifle safe.

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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by boingk » 29 Apr 2021, 9:53 pm

ZaineB wrote:45-70


Now there's a round with some history. Almost 150 years and still kicking it.

My Marlin 1895 won't be going to a new owner any time soon.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Blr243 » 30 Apr 2021, 2:58 pm

My 1895 is at home and not going anywhere anytime .....if ever I were to think about selling it I know I must rush to the hospital for tests because I must be developing a brain tumour
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