Is the 308 really THAT bad?

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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Veetwin » 31 May 2021, 3:28 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
Veetwin wrote:Getting back in, waiting for a 308 pta

What sort of Vee Twin? European, Japanese or American?


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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 31 May 2021, 5:26 pm

Blr243 wrote:My 1895 is at home and not going anywhere anytime .....if ever I were to think about selling it I know I must rush to the hospital for tests because I must be developing a brain tumour


STOP IT ! all this talk about 45-70 is making me want one :lol: maybe a marlin 44 mag is a good compromise ........... :P

on topic , yeah a 308 gets the job done i guess ........ ;)
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by cz515 » 01 Jun 2021, 6:56 am

Interesting thread. Everytime a new shooters asks me what I recommend as their first rifle. I tell them get a 300wm in a hunting lightweight barrel followed by a 308. Can use similar projectiles, powder etc.

I even tell them they need to get it in a tikka super varmint, and I'll guarantee they will like it or I'll buy their rifle from them :sarcasm:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 01 Jun 2021, 8:31 am

cz515 wrote:Interesting thread. Everytime a new shooters asks me what I recommend as their first rifle. I tell them get a 300wm in a hunting lightweight barrel followed by a 308. Can use similar projectiles, powder etc.

I even tell them they need to get it in a tikka super varmint, and I'll guarantee they will like it or I'll buy their rifle from them :sarcasm:


So YOUR the guy responsible for all the “like new” light weight 300wm rifles for sale online...... :lol:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by cz515 » 01 Jun 2021, 8:35 am

Yeah they don't hear the super varmint part ...haha
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 01 Jun 2021, 9:12 am

cz515 wrote:Yeah they don't hear the super varmint part ...haha


I reckon the modern generation is soft
Our grandfathers ( and probably grandma’s too :D )
Used to carry Bren guns and Boy’s anti tank rifles through the jungles of New Guinea, now the young ones struggle with a 223 varmit rifle for rabbits.

Very worrying....... ;)
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by FNQ » 02 Jun 2021, 5:36 pm

.308 reminds me of a LandCruiser.
It just works
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by in2anity » 03 Jun 2021, 9:02 am

FNQ wrote:.308 reminds me of a LandCruiser.
It just works


When comparing the 308 with the likes of the 6.5cm, it's more important to obtain a very accurate rifle (and associated load and gear) before going too deeply down such a rabbit hole of an argument. Which makes the 6.5cm vs 308 "sporter rifle" debate somewhat of a moot point.

Like-for-like, both will do just fine. In a hunting rifle, both will open up after a few shots.

I can tell you for a fact, with like-for-like gear, the 308 yields the same scores as 6.5 in service matches. It's the mug behind the trigger that's causing the error, not the caliber.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 03 Jun 2021, 10:42 am

in2anity wrote:
FNQ wrote:.308 reminds me of a LandCruiser.
It just works


When comparing the 308 with the likes of the 6.5cm, it's more important to obtain a very accurate rifle (and associated load and gear) before going too deeply down such a rabbit hole of an argument. Which makes the 6.5cm vs 308 "sporter rifle" debate somewhat of a moot point.

Like-for-like, both will do just fine. In a hunting rifle, both will open up after a few shots.

I can tell you for a fact, with like-for-like gear, the 308 yields the same scores as 6.5 in service matches. It's the mug behind the trigger that's causing the error, not the caliber.


on that note, it would be fair to say some shooters would do better with the CM due to being able to shoot more accurately than a lightweight flinch inducing 308
horses for coarses . depends what floats your boat :thumbsup:

the 308 is boring because it works :P
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by in2anity » 03 Jun 2021, 12:34 pm

bigrich wrote:on that note, it would be fair to say some shooters would do better with the CM due to being able to shoot more accurately than a lightweight flinch inducing 308
horses for coarses . depends what floats your boat :thumbsup:

the 308 is boring because it works :P


True true BR. A 308 hunting rifle is a brute out of a chair, or even prone cross-arms. Pocketing it tightly, properly, with a hasty sling always helps. Or shoot 150gr pills over AR2206H...
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by disco stu » 03 Jun 2021, 8:08 pm

I had only shot my 308 prone or sitting in hunting situations and thought it was fine. Shot it recently off the bench for the first time and felt like my brain cells were rearranged. 3 shots was enough for me. Went through near on 20rds sighting it in prone (lose scope mount-rookie error) and thought nothing of it. Crazy how much different it is off the bench
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Jun 2021, 9:11 pm

Don't lean into it so much. Pull the stock into the shoulder. Try and sit a little more up right, that way you will be be more likely to move with the recoil.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 04 Jun 2021, 4:58 am

disco stu wrote:I had only shot my 308 prone or sitting in hunting situations and thought it was fine. Shot it recently off the bench for the first time and felt like my brain cells were rearranged. 3 shots was enough for me. Went through near on 20rds sighting it in prone (lose scope mount-rookie error) and thought nothing of it. Crazy how much different it is off the bench


Spare a thought for the folks who buy a tikka lite in 300 win mag :D
I new a fella who got talked into one by the sales staff at the big C store, it was a brutal experience to sight in :lol:
I’ve owned a few different calibers over the years, for what it is , 308 recoils sharply at times with heavy loads . I had a sako A7 in 308, shooting handloads off a bench would result in a headache at times. I had a 8x57 Mauser that was a 20” barreled carbine. Shooting 200 grain Speer handloads it would jump off a bench rest to about 30 degrees. Used to make a mate laugh his head off :lol: a shot gun style recoil pad took the sting out of it ,but man it was fun :lol:

Loading for a 308 once you get up to 165’s the 30-06 has more potential for heavier projectiles from there up . Which is why the 30-06 has the great all rounder reputation. 110 grain to 220 grain I believe. 308 runs out of puff at 180’s .As a rifle for store bought ammo or as a true “working “ rifle a 308 ticks all the boxes
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by duncan61 » 04 Jun 2021, 6:48 am

I was involved in what was called at the time F-class optical and tried to compete with a .222 lightweight Ruger.I was not aware that it would not go 400 metres so I bought a 7mm Remington Sendero Rem Mag which instantly put me in the game using 168gn Matchkings.One chap had customized a rifle with a heavy target barrel etc in 6mm Remington which has a bit more go than a .243 and could hit the V at 900 yards consistently.There was only a few of us doing at this club so we had the same target as the fullbore guys using military stuff with a sling and open sights.Now I live back in the city a range I go to has the different targets as it is about 50/50 and has different classes.My class is now called field rifle.This range only goes to 600 Yards and was built to train troops for WW2.I am impressed with the older chaps who can group with open sights.Another shooter runs a standard .243 with a 1.8 twist and 105 Bergers to great effect.My stock Howa would probably not go so good with a 22 inch barrel and 1;12 twist.The moral of the story is most chamberings from 6mm to 7.62mm can be tuned to do 1000 metres competitively.I have seen people try to do it with a .223 but have yet to see anyone get it right even with long barrels and 1;8 twists with 80gn pills.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by in2anity » 04 Jun 2021, 11:05 am

duncan61 wrote:There was only a few of us doing at this club so we had the same target as the fullbore guys using military stuff with a sling and open sights.Now I live back in the city a range I go to has the different targets as it is about 50/50 and has different classes.


ANZAC Sydney has common targets also. Only the X comes into play for F, and the V counts as integer 6 (instead of decimal 0.01 for TR/Service). Therefore TR's possible is 50.10, F is 60.10. F class has to hit all Vs to just be in the running - competition basically "starts" at 60.* drop a integer and you may as well pack up and go home. V's are around 1moa, X's 1/2moa. Service rifle is very similar to TR, but stricter gear limitations (i.e. service gear only) and generally closer targets, not to mention the 3-positions. Service prone line is usually 300m at ANZAC, occasionally 400m; V bull is around 2moa.

duncan61 wrote:I have seen people try to do it with a .223 but have yet to see anyone get it right even with long barrels and 1;8 twists with 80gn pills.


The windage for a hot 80gr vld is very similar to the 155gr palma - crunch the numbers see for yourself. Hence why F-std shooters sometimes use 223s. A competent TR shooter can comfortably shoot 50.* with a 1:8" 223 even out to 800m. You have to run em hot though, and you need a long barrel and strong action.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by duncan61 » 04 Jun 2021, 1:03 pm

I see some classes are 223 or 308 so understand why people spend loot on a 223 to try and get a result.Recoil is an issue
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by in2anity » 04 Jun 2021, 1:19 pm

duncan61 wrote:I see some classes are 223 or 308 so understand why people spend loot on a 223 to try and get a result.Recoil is an issue

Recoil won't be an issue for F-std. The outfits are freakin boat anchors. It's more a matter of economics. A 223 is about half the cost to run than a 308.
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by cz515 » 04 Jun 2021, 2:04 pm

It's a known in the inner sanctum of elite snipers that the earths rotation will effect the impact of the bullets, this means the creedmore in 6mm is the best as it's smaller size make the effects of gravity lower.

On a windy day it's extra fast speeds will overcome gusts upto 100kph. This is why the US army user them in directional fire weapons, because it can swing around walls and hit the target as intended by the sniper. They even used this special type of ammo to kill Osama bin lad
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by disco stu » 04 Jun 2021, 5:27 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Don't lean into it so much. Pull the stock into the shoulder. Try and sit a little more up right, that way you will be be more likely to move with the recoil.


Thanks old bloke. I guess I need a shorter chair for bench shooting then, being a tall bugger means I just automatically lean down more.

Bigrich: I had wondered how light hunting rifles in sizes like 300 wm with heavy projectiles would go. Bit of a toss up between dragging around a heavy rifle or having something that makes you flinch
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Bill » 06 Jun 2021, 5:37 pm

FNQ wrote:.308 reminds me of a LandCruiser.
It just works


What so the injectors fail, the DPF soots up and diffs go bang :lol: :lol:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Bill » 06 Jun 2021, 5:39 pm

If I had a 308 Id be thinking about what Wildcat I could turn it into :drinks:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Skinna » 06 Jun 2021, 5:58 pm

cz515 wrote:It's a known in the inner sanctum of elite snipers that the earths rotation will effect the impact of the bullets, this means the creedmore in 6mm is the best as it's smaller size make the effects of gravity lower.

On a windy day it's extra fast speeds will overcome gusts upto 100kph. This is why the US army user them in directional fire weapons, because it can swing around walls and hit the target as intended by the sniper. They even used this special type of ammo to kill Osama bin lad


And so you stating you know this, implies you are in the "inner sanctum of elite snipers".... :lol:
:roll:

And you think "smaller size makes the effects of gravity lower"... :lol: :clap:
....By that statement alone, my 32 grainers at 4000fps from a 20 cal would be more effective killers on foxes at 600 metres than a 180 grainer out of a 300WM...
More proof that In plain simple terms, you are an idiot...!!!.. :lol: :thumbsup:

I cant believe the level of stupidity you have, & that you seem so intent on showing others... :lol:

I really hope you folks out there learning about the nature & physics of shooting arent taking anything of this diatribe on as anything more than an example of what NOT to aspire to...!!
FMD :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 06 Jun 2021, 6:01 pm

disco stu wrote:
Bigrich: I had wondered how light hunting rifles in sizes like 300 wm with heavy projectiles would go. Bit of a toss up between dragging around a heavy rifle or having something that makes you flinch


a rifle with less recoil that you can shoot more accurately is of more use than one that makes you close your eyes as you pull the trigger and miss . me personally i like 243 as a "light" stalking rifle that's silly accurate ,and have a stainless/laminate 270win as a "all round , all weather" rig . that's also silly accurate . both have more than enough reach , shoot flat and the 270 with 150sst's takes enough power right out there for any game i'm likely to find

300 wm is known for it's reach and flat shooting , it's also known for sharp savage recoil in a light rifle . if i was wanting to shoot heavy i have a 358win for moderate ranges . if i was wanting something with power and reach a 9.3x62 with 286 grains is suprisingly accurate , reaches out , and loaded moderately the recoil isn't as harsh as a win mag . more of a "pumpkin roller" effect

JMHO fellas :thumbsup:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 06 Jun 2021, 6:06 pm

Bill wrote:If I had a 308 Id be thinking about what Wildcat I could turn it into :drinks:


6mm , 7mm , my favorite , 358 . it's definately a useful case :thumbsup:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 06 Jun 2021, 6:24 pm

Skinna wrote:
cz515 wrote:It's a known in the inner sanctum of elite snipers that the earths rotation will effect the impact of the bullets, this means the creedmore in 6mm is the best as it's smaller size make the effects of gravity lower.

On a windy day it's extra fast speeds will overcome gusts upto 100kph. This is why the US army user them in directional fire weapons, because it can swing around walls and hit the target as intended by the sniper. They even used this special type of ammo to kill Osama bin lad


And so you stating you know this, implies you are in the "inner sanctum of elite snipers".... :lol:
:roll:

And you think "smaller size makes the effects of gravity lower"... :lol: :clap:
....By that statement alone, my 32 grainers at 4000fps from a 20 cal would be more effective killers on foxes at 600 metres than a 180 grainer out of a 300WM...
More proof that In plain simple terms, you are an idiot...!!!.. :lol: :thumbsup:

I cant believe the level of stupidity you have, & that you seem so intent on showing others... :lol:

I really hope you folks out there learning about the nature & physics of shooting arent taking anything of this diatribe on as anything more than an example of what NOT to aspire to...!!
FMD :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol:



geez stix me ole mate , bit harsh ;) ya gotta let people have their say even if their not quite accurate . are you a bit frustrated cause the zombie wabbits are playing up again :D :thumbsup:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by in2anity » 06 Jun 2021, 7:43 pm

Think he was trolling
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Bill » 06 Jun 2021, 7:57 pm

bigrich wrote:
Bill wrote:If I had a 308 Id be thinking about what Wildcat I could turn it into :drinks:


6mm , 7mm , my favorite , 358 . it's definately a useful case :thumbsup:


I've been thinking about the 375 Raptor a lot lately :lol: :lol:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Blr243 » 06 Jun 2021, 8:01 pm

The earths circumference is 40 000 Kim’s It only takes 24 hours to rotate completely.... so standing still I’m actually travelling at over 1600 Kim’s per hour ... right now I Cant be shooting a 308 1000 metres away because I’m too busy hanging onto my hat in case it blows off
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by bigrich » 06 Jun 2021, 9:03 pm

Bill wrote:
bigrich wrote:
Bill wrote:If I had a 308 Id be thinking about what Wildcat I could turn it into :drinks:


6mm , 7mm , my favorite , 358 . it's definately a useful case :thumbsup:


I've been thinking about the 375 Raptor a lot lately :lol: :lol:


i hadn't heard of that . just had a look on wikipedia . i dunno if you'd get good expansion with a lot of 375 projectiles in a 375 raptor due to the slower speed
i think the big thing is projectile performance . that's why i like the 358. plenty of different projectile choice
357 hollow points for light game , projectiles designed for the 35 rem that expand well in the faster 358win , and slightly harder ones from the 35 whelen and 358 norma :thumbsup:
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Re: Is the 308 really THAT bad?

Post by Bill » 06 Jun 2021, 9:23 pm

Barnes 235gr TSX at 2600fps + would be a world of hurt on a pig or deer, its not a dangerous game round, but it sure would make a handy size hole.

Just a bit more than the 358, I'm onto my 3rd 358 and I love the round. I still have a 9.3x62 and its does a fine job just thinking of a SA light weight silly cartridge :thumbsup:
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