Scope options for Marlin 1894 Dark in 44 Mag

[Nails]

Recently bought this thing after watching too many You tube vids.
I didn’t really want to add a big scope, but with my eyes I’m not enjoying this thing at all. I can only see one of the three critical things, rear ghost ring, front sight or target and past 50 yards not very well. Firstly I put a Vortex Razor 3moa red dot on it thinking this will help but even at 25 yards the dot is too big imo, so thats on the pistol now and might be for sale if that doesn’t work. Next I bought a Leupold 1moa red dot which has very high mounts and seems like a cheap crappy device to me, albeit very heavy duty lol, even on the lowest setting the dot has a halo that looks like a skewed piece of paper behind the dot at 50 yards (about 4x the size of the dot) and on increasing the brightness just makes the dot and halo bigger still, more like 3moa than 1 - returning or using as a credit for the next attempt hopefully.
So, open sights and 1x mag red dots don’t work for me. I’ll try swapping my 223 scope onto it to see how it goes. Its a GPO passion red dot, 2.5-15x56 probably a bit bulky but its not a bad scope and if I can get it back far enough for eye relief at least I’ll be able to see how the 44 shoots.
Has anyone got a scope on a similar lever action that you’re really happy with out to 100 - 150 yards? Probably at least 10x mag and I like turrets without top cap and big numbers, mildot retical would be nice too btw
Not too worried about price, just want something that works great.
Thanks

[animalpest]

Why on earth do you want or need a scope with a magnification of 10x or greater on a 44mag lever action?

Mine has either 1.5-5x or a 1.75-6x on them and I can shoot as good as the rifle will with these scopes.

[Blr243]

I’m surprised you did not like the 3 moa vortex on your marlin. That’s exactly what’s on my marlin 4570 and I love it ....a lightweight holo should be fast and allow very good peripheral vision and is probably the reason you bought it in the first place. I think I would be re examining The basics and you may find the original holo ok if you forget about the sort of precision you are currently chaseing because it’s probably not needed and comes at the expense of lugging around an unbalanced rig with too much scope ......it’s a 44 lever have some fun with gongs or pigs, A tikka in 223 Shooting cats n foxes can wear a big flash scope

[womble]

Probably something like this. https://athlonoptics.com/product/argos-btr-gen2-1-8x24-atsr5-sfp-ir-moa/
Just a thought.
I have a Burris red dot on mine and works for me. But 150 yards it would not be great. For me anyway. My eyesight is a bit s**t, but i think yours might be worse. If i was to scope it I’d go for the above.

[Nails]

Thanks guys,
@blr243 - thats exactly what I wanted it for but with the peep sights I cant hit a 250mm gong at 50 yards on the bench with it yet. With the Vortex Razor, I sighted in at 20 yards at the pistol club but got a spread of about 3 inches from a rest which I thought was pretty bad and blamed it on the big red dot (not me of course). I then took it to Ripley and the spread at 50 was about 5 inches, I didn’t bother with 100 and at that point decided to try a smaller dot. But after a few tests with that gave it up as a bad purchase.
I saw a video of the 45/70 dark getting 3shots touching at 100 with a Leupold firedot (not sure what magnification probably 10x or more) so I was hoping for a lot better than I’m getting, but yeah the whole idea was a minimalist fun gun that can hit stuff like melons at 50-75, 150 is definitely too far without mag, even 100 and maybe even 75.for my eyes.

@Womble - thats the sort of thing I was thinking, not too huge bit I think I’ll put my 223 scope on first and see what sort of accuracy it’s capable of.
I’ll be getting cataracts done later this year, not sure how much that might help but eye doc reckons lenses with depth of view should help with gun sights.

[straightshooter]

The Marlin 94 is a trim and quick handling short range rifle. Putting a massive scope on it would turn it into a clumsy lump and do next to nothing for ranging ability.
The answer is relatively simple.
Assuming one has good eyesight to start with, in about your mid 40's changes in your eyesight slowly reveal themselves. Sooner if you have mild astigmatism.
And things only get worse the older you get.
When you are young you are able to rapidly focus on the target, the front sight and the rear sight making it seem like they are all in focus at the same time. As you age it gradually becomes more difficult and then no longer possible.
Time to see an optometrist but don't get sucked into buying hyper expensive glasses.
The examination should also reveal whether you have any emerging problem such as cataract or glaucoma.

[in2anity]

Sounds like an ammo problem to me - 5 inches at 50m is not good enough. Have you experimented with different brands of ammunition? For a 44mag lever gun, I'd be content with 3-4moa across iron sights, easy good enough for offhanding melons.

I had a 44mag lever gun once, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9649 I found the accuracy unacceptable given the recoil it dishes. I went down to a 32-20 Winnie which is notably more consistent at 100m. Not to mention more economical to run. The 44mag is a bit of a brute IMO.

On a side not, with some practice, one can group into 2moa from prone out of a service sling. Tonnes of magnification doesn't always buy you smaller groups, depending on how you tend to shoot. If I were you I'd be putting one of the VX-3i 1.5-5x20 on it. Very good scopes those, for practical applications.

[Nails]

Yeah aging eyes definitely a problem, I’m 58 short and long sighted and have cataracts coming on fast from years of taking prednisone. Hopefully removing them will help a lot.
Anyway anmo is definitely something to try more, I’ve only tried 2 so far (and have another to test) as not easy to find atm, I might try some 44 special too. I plan to start reloading soon and while that will take some practice it should help down the track.
I’ll still try the big scope while testing different ammo as it should help me see the target better at least. If the spread is still bad that should point to ammo I guess.
Will update in a few days.
Thanks guys

[LawrenceA]

Red dot all the way.
Use my marlin 1895 a lot chasing pigs and it is great for quick acquisition and running shots. Both eyes open. Heaps field of view. Bit like using a shotgun

[in2anity]

lever guns are really susceptible to a wandering zero. Lots of junk hanging off the barrel, which can "pull" on it as the barrel heats, shifting the poi. Also having the forend just sitting on a hard sort of rest can be detrimental to accuracy; the recoil can drive through the forend and into the barrel before the round exits. On the rare occasion i am ever benching a lever gun, i'll always place my hand in-between the rest and the forend, preferably with some sling tension pulling down on the forend into the pocket, i feel this yields better consistency than lazy "cross-arm" style, modern shooting. Better still shoot it unsupported or perhaps with a stabilising sling. Also i think it goes without saying, If you want to be able to tweak experiment with different ammo, it pays to handload.

[boingk]

If I were you I'd be putting one of the VX-3i 1.5-5x20 on it. Very good scopes those, for practical applications.

That's what I've got on my 45-70 Marlin '95. Works fantastically, thing gets sub MOA easily and you can dial it down in power for close in work.

- boingk

[Nails]

Thanks all.
I tried mounting the big scope but my spare 30mm rings were just a little too low, so I put the Leupold unit back on and tried it again. I tried zeroing at 40m offhand instead of using the bench and got much better results with same ammo S&B 240gn. Part of the problem seems to be astigmatism (after reading up on it) so I’ve got an appointment to see what corrective options there are, I’ll take the two red dots with me so I can check them out ith the lenses in place.
After sighting in offhand I setup 10 water filled 3 litre milk containers and a few 600ml ones - had a blast and only missed once - not sure why it didn’t seem to work last time but I think in2anity post above with recoil from a bench effect could be it, I couldn’t get any kind of accuracy that way.
Think I’ll probably keep the leupold scope now, especially if the eye doc can help further

[Blr243]

Couple of times I have taken scopes in to optometrist meetings so I can show them the problem to help them better understand my requirements, but they just don’t want to know about it or touch it or look thru it

[in2anity]

Thanks all.
I tried mounting the big scope but my spare 30mm rings were just a little too low, so I put the Leupold unit back on and tried it again. I tried zeroing at 40m offhand instead of using the bench and got much better results with same ammo S&B 240gn. Part of the problem seems to be astigmatism (after reading up on it) so I’ve got an appointment to see what corrective options there are, I’ll take the two red dots with me so I can check them out ith the lenses in place.
After sighting in offhand I setup 10 water filled 3 litre milk containers and a few 600ml ones - had a blast and only missed once - not sure why it didn’t seem to work last time but I think in2anity post above with recoil from a bench effect could be it, I couldn’t get any kind of accuracy that way.
Think I’ll probably keep the leupold scope now, especially if the eye doc can help further

I have astigmatism myself, and you can bet your bottom dollar it'll affect your groups. My scores are measurably worse if I forget my glasses come Saturday match.

Konrad has astigmatism too, and he likes to quantify things:

https://youtu.be/-NMIVH1wpxE

Getting back to benching your lever; not all levers are equal. Some might bench fine, some definitely don't. It all depends on how they are stocked up.

Here is a veteren Master grader in a novelty "scope supported" match doing exactly what I described, i.e. applying sling tension and balancing the rifle on the rest as far back as comfortable:

sling.jpg (83.73 KiB) Viewed 10430 times

It's not a lever, but the principle is exactly the same. It all has to do with the relationship between the tightly forend and barrel. His unorthodox technique is applied for a reason, because he knows his vintage rifle's consistency goes down the toilet if he shoots it in the modern, lazy, cross-arm fashion, with the rest up front (and no sling tension)

[Nails]

Thanks all.
I tried mounting the big scope but my spare 30mm rings were just a little too low, so I put the Leupold unit back on and tried it again. I tried zeroing at 40m offhand instead of using the bench and got much better results with same ammo S&B 240gn. Part of the problem seems to be astigmatism (after reading up on it) so I’ve got an appointment to see what corrective options there are, I’ll take the two red dots with me so I can check them out ith the lenses in place.
After sighting in offhand I setup 10 water filled 3 litre milk containers and a few 600ml ones - had a blast and only missed once - not sure why it didn’t seem to work last time but I think in2anity post above with recoil from a bench effect could be it, I couldn’t get any kind of accuracy that way.
Think I’ll probably keep the leupold scope now, especially if the eye doc can help further

[Nails]

Sorry double post

[Tubs]

Thanks all.
I tried mounting the big scope but my spare 30mm rings were just a little too low, so I put the Leupold unit back on and tried it again. I tried zeroing at 40m offhand instead of using the bench and got much better results with same ammo S&B 240gn. Part of the problem seems to be astigmatism (after reading up on it) so I’ve got an appointment to see what corrective options there are, I’ll take the two red dots with me so I can check them out ith the lenses in place.
After sighting in offhand I setup 10 water filled 3 litre milk containers and a few 600ml ones - had a blast and only missed once - not sure why it didn’t seem to work last time but I think in2anity post above with recoil from a bench effect could be it, I couldn’t get any kind of accuracy that way.
Think I’ll probably keep the leupold scope now, especially if the eye doc can help further

Ive just attached a cheap Nikko Sterling Panamax AO 3-9 X 40 to my 1894 using a weaver rail.

Will be using it to sight out to 50 and 100 and check reloads for suitability. It doesn't add that much weight and the view is suprisingly good for the money. My ambition is to be able to rabbit hunt using it. I might be pushing s**t uphill but maybe not.

Will experiment with 125 gn projectiles for some flatter shooting. Will let u know what kind of groups i get with it.

[Nails]

It would be interesting to see how you went with that Tubs. I got some new specs and the dot is much sharper now so fairly happy with it. The only thing with this scope is this shape around the dot. It seems to be etched into the glass as its visible when the dot is off especially in brighter daylight, in shadow it’s barely noticeable. It’s about 4 times the dot size and can be a bit distracting with paper targets anyway

[Tubs]

It would be interesting to see how you went with that Tubs. I got some new specs and the dot is much sharper now so fairly happy with it. The only thing with this scope is this shape around the dot. It seems to be etched into the glass as its visible when the dot is off especially in brighter daylight, in shadow it’s barely noticeable. It’s about 4 times the dot size and can be a bit distracting with paper targets anyway

Off to Silverdale this week to test out a few loads

[rc42]

I bought a Leupold 1moa red dot which has very high mounts and seems like a cheap crappy device to me, albeit very heavy duty lol, even on the lowest setting the dot has a halo that looks like a skewed piece of paper behind the dot at 50 yards (about 4x the size of the dot) and on increasing the brightness just makes the dot and halo bigger still, more like 3moa than 1 - returning or using as a credit for the next attempt hopefully.

Before you return your 1moa red dot, hold it out in front of you so you can see the dot and distortion and then rotate the unit, if the distortion rotates with it then you have a faulty unit. If the distortion stays in exactly the same place relative to the dot then it's astigmatism in your eye, try the other eye too, for me it creates a similar distortion but on the opposite side of the dot.

For astigmatism, larger dots show less of the effect as does dimming the dot, also prism sights are supposed to be good at minimizing it but it will always be there and will likely worsen with age.


I use my lever action rifle for competitions that require open iron sights so I use a ghost ring on the back and standard post with bead on the front, further correction is done through prescription glasses to bring the foresight into sharp focus and an iris to extend that focus out close enough to the target. The rear ghost ring itself is completely blurred but as long as I can see that it's a circle and put the front bead in the center of it then it works well.

[in2anity]

Yes those illuminated style sights aren't good for me also; even with my glasses they still appear "starry".

Meanwhile, the square front blade on my service rifles, with a bit of sight black is dammed crisp, and with irons that's what you should be intensely focusing on (not the target, or the rear sight).

[Nails]

My new specs work great, very sharp dot now on this red dot and the 3moa on my hangun. The only problem now is that the arms on the specs aren’t very comfortable with earmuffs and even though I have custom moulded shooting ear plugs they alone aren’t enough at the range..

[Harrynsw]

It's a 100m rifle. A red dot or 1-4X scope.

[cleger]

Leupold FX-2. Only 6.5 oz, and a bit of mag for tired eyes.

https://www.leupold.com/fx-ii-ultraligh ... riflescope

[bigrich]

i have a leupold 1-4x20 on my marlin 1894 44 mag . which is all the scope magnification needed really . mine has the new pig plex recticle which is good for fast targeting . at least for me . i am considering a 2-7x33 loopy hunt plex when they become available .a good compromise on magnification and weight i reckon .
i had a 357 marlin a while ago , which would produce clover leaves at 50 with handloads . lil gun and 158 xtp's was the recipe, 1800fps and it worked fantastic in 22 hornet . oh why can't we get 'lil gun and win296 anymore ? if you look at the marlins barrels, they have the same outside dimensions , which means the 44 has a thinner barrel wall and more prone to wandering . while a 357 has a thicker wall and retains more accuracy . a 357 just don't thump like a 44 but .....

i pulled the mag tube and fore end/stock off mine the other day. and do you think i could get it back together ? no way ! i ended up taking a tiny bit of wood off the fore end where it contacted the dovetailed bracket in the barrel , and took about half a millimeter or more off the end cap . now with a moderate amount of preasure i could get the screws back in the end cap to put it back together

i went to the range and didn't get on paper at 50 ! it was now shooting a foot to the right ! . i compensated by a lot of left scope adjustment ,then i remembered having to adjust the new scope waaaay to the right when i first fitted it . how much tension was on that barrel due to the fore end ? i leave the front barrel band a little loose to try to reduce barrel tension as well . guess what even with factory ammo it groups MUCH more consistantly . i'm getting inch and a half groups at 50 with 21.5 grains of 2400 and 240 xtp's now . not bad but i'd like to tighten it up . i got a idea to convert the mag to a half mage that finishes in front of the end cap and get rid of that front barrel band

marlin levers in pistol rounds are definately a enthusiasts gun , as there's a lot of custom mods that can make them better .

blazing away with a 44 lever is a lot of fun but

[bigrich]

Leupold FX-2. Only 6.5 oz, and a bit of mag for tired eyes.

https://www.leupold.com/fx-ii-ultraligh ... riflescope

i looked at these , but they have a long 5" eye releif for big game rifles and mounting them far enough forward can be a issue with out a pic type rail . the eye box ends up being over the top of the hammer as well which would make it a bit fiddly without a hammer spur i reckon

[cleger]

Leupold FX-2. Only 6.5 oz, and a bit of mag for tired eyes.

https://www.leupold.com/fx-ii-ultraligh ... riflescope

i looked at these , but they have a long 5" eye releif for big game rifles and mounting them far enough forward can be a issue with out a pic type rail . the eye box ends up being over the top of the hammer as well which would make it a bit fiddly without a hammer spur i reckon

Oh... I thought the "dark" was the one with the rail.

[bigrich]

Leupold FX-2. Only 6.5 oz, and a bit of mag for tired eyes.

https://www.leupold.com/fx-ii-ultraligh ... riflescope

i looked at these , but they have a long 5" eye releif for big game rifles and mounting them far enough forward can be a issue with out a pic type rail . the eye box ends up being over the top of the hammer as well which would make it a bit fiddly without a hammer spur i reckon

Oh... I thought the "dark" was the one with the rail.

Yes , you are correct. I was thinking in terms of my 1894 . Sorry

[cleger]

Leupold FX-2. Only 6.5 oz, and a bit of mag for tired eyes.

https://www.leupold.com/fx-ii-ultraligh ... riflescope

i looked at these , but they have a long 5" eye releif for big game rifles and mounting them far enough forward can be a issue with out a pic type rail . the eye box ends up being over the top of the hammer as well which would make it a bit fiddly without a hammer spur i reckon

Oh... I thought the "dark" was the one with the rail.

Yes , you are correct. I was thinking in terms of my 1894 . Sorry

Then I stand by my answer!

[Fionn]

I have one of these on my 44, seems very good for the money. I haven't had any issues with it.



http://www.visionking.com.cn/en/product ... 96&c_pid=1