Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

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Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Paul » 28 Mar 2021, 7:12 pm

Hi all, hoping for some assistance with some inconsistency in trying to sight in my new Tikka T3x Forest in 22-250. The rifle is fitted with a Zeiss Conquest V4 6-24 x 50. Quality optics.

Went to the range a week ago and got nothing sorted, inconsistent results from factory ammo. So this last week was on a property and tried again. Started by checking bore sighting and it seemed fine.

So this is what I got when I fired at 25m, 50m and then at 100m.

T3x 22-250 1.jpg
T3x 22-250 1.jpg (290.46 KiB) Viewed 3067 times



As you could imagine I was getting quite excited from the 25m and 50m results, then it all went pear shaped (nearly literally) at 100. Using both Federal (55 gr soft point) and Hornady (Superformance 50gr V Max). I adjusted the scope based on shat #3 of the federal group, and considered #2 as a 'flyer'. The Hornady group was e result. I'd have thought that at 4000fps the Hornady stuff would shoot high - but I only adjusted to the bulls eye, not what I expected the Hornady to do. Result was disappointing to say the least.

I was shooting well, as I was hitting targets at 100m with the 22 LR. So I strongly believe it was not my shooting (yes I know every one says this).

So I left it till the next day to try again, and this is what I got:

T3x 22-250 2.jpg
T3x 22-250 2.jpg (309.46 KiB) Viewed 3067 times


G1 Hornady. G2, hand load of 32.5 gr 22206H and 55gr V-Max. G3 31.5 gr 2206H.

So none of these is any where near what I would expect from either factory loads or the hand loads in a brand new rifle. I cleaned it between types of ammo also.

So what the hell is going on? I am wondering if the scope is out, or the rife is just a dud. I checked the ring screw tensions with the torque driver etc. It should be shooting way way better than it is so something is not quite right. I am loath to think that it is 'just settling in' coz these rifles are supposed to come with a 1 MOA already shot guarantee.

Any thoughts or suggestions greatly appreciated. I'm thinking I might need to check the scope on another rifle or put another one on the 250. I am not a happy camper at the moment. Ive put pretty well 2 boxes of factory ammo through this thing and its still shooting like a dog. Should have taken 6 shots at most :-(

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Warm regards,

Paul
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bigrich » 28 Mar 2021, 7:31 pm

that is odd . i had a situation recently where i had warne split rings on weaver bases and they didn't tighten up right which gave me some wierd results . go back to basics , if possible swap out the scope .

best of luck
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Bill » 28 Mar 2021, 7:34 pm

Firstly 22-250's get hot real quick. Try 3 shot groups and let the barrel cool at least 5mins, 5 shot groups will need about 8 mins barrel cool down.

I had really good accuracy from Tikka branded 22-250 ammo ( I paid $65/50 locally).

Make sure you give the barrel a good clean. 22-250's generally arent too fussy with ammo but I have never tried the Hornady stuff or federal. It may take a few rounds to settle down.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by SCJ429 » 28 Mar 2021, 8:15 pm

Did you clean it for carbon and copper? Did you notice much copper fouling and did it come out easily?

You are getting a lot of vertical at times, are you shooting off a rest?
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Skinna » 28 Mar 2021, 10:58 pm

First things first, obviously is everything all sitting pretty (action in stock, scope attatchments, scope tracking & holds zero etc etc).

Id say by the looks of that the ammo isnt suited to the rifle, or the rifle doesnt like the ammo/any of it.

So having said that, have you tried different ammo...?
I had those very same patterns once out of an old 22-250 of mine--its good to see them gone & posessed someone elses gun for a change... :lol:
Just kidding mate... :)

Try diff ammo/bullets/powder, or vary the powder. Try working up further.

But first, try a different scope if you think its not the ammo.
:drinks:
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 29 Mar 2021, 4:15 pm

The verticality suggests a bedding issue to me. Perhaps re-seat it in the stock?
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Bill » 29 Mar 2021, 5:08 pm

Have you taken the insert out of the stock? That is around the knox area of the barrel

A mates T3x shot Ave groups but not as bad as urs and when he removed the insert it shot alot better. Also check the barrel is free floated with a $5 note right at the forend. If its contacting then it need to be relieved. T3x don't have pillars for the action bolts so don't over torque them.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Die Judicii » 29 Mar 2021, 8:35 pm

I bought a brand new T3X not so long ago.
Found out very quickly that it had multiple issues right from the start.
The biggie's that could be part of what your experiencing (though I haven't yet seen your pic, cos it won't load up) are as follow,,

1) The trigger pull/release on mine was woeful. Fixed that by fitting a Yo Dave spring.

2) The recoil lug on mine was the (new issue steel lug that was supposed to have fixed the problems experienced by the alloy ones) but still wasn't
a good fit (p!ss poor in fact) it had a 3 - 4 mm slop.
Fixed that by full floating the barrel with 4mm clearance, and bedding the action and recoil lug.

The other numerous issues were also either fixed by myself or my gunsmith.

But by then I was so p!ssed off (like you said,,, they are supposed to be good straight out of the box) that I sold it flat out like a lizard drinking.


Never, ever again, will I buy a Tikka.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 29 Mar 2021, 8:35 pm

Bill wrote:Have you taken the insert out of the stock? That is around the knox area of the barrel

A mates T3x shot Ave groups but not as bad as urs and when he removed the insert it shot alot better. Also check the barrel is free floated with a $5 note right at the forend. If its contacting then it need to be relieved. T3x don't have pillars for the action bolts so don't over torque them.


You’re not referring to the recoil lug are you? Remember, this is the T3X centerfire, not the T1X rimfire...
Last edited by in2anity on 30 Mar 2021, 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bigrich » 30 Mar 2021, 10:48 am

Die Judicii wrote:I bought a brand new T3X not so long ago.
Found out very quickly that it had multiple issues right from the start.
The biggie's that could be part of what your experiencing (though I haven't yet seen your pic, cos it won't load up) are as follow,,

1) The trigger pull/release on mine was woeful. Fixed that by fitting a Yo Dave spring.

2) The recoil lug on mine was the (new issue steel lug that was supposed to have fixed the problems experienced by the alloy ones) but still wasn't
a good fit (p!ss poor in fact) it had a 3 - 4 mm slop.
Fixed that by full floating the barrel with 4mm clearance, and bedding the action and recoil lug.

The other numerous issues were also either fixed by myself or my gunsmith.

But by then I was so p!ssed off (like you said,,, they are supposed to be good straight out of the box) that I sold it flat out like a lizard drinking.


Never, ever again, will I buy a Tikka.


with any manufactured product , gremlins can creep in . most of my rifles are older ones that have been rebarreled/reworked to satisfy my OCD nature
i got rid of a older tikka m55 yesterday . it was well made and in good nick , but some of the design features just didn't gel with me . the recoil lug insert in the stock was not a good point for me, as was the bottom feed mag
i ended up trading it on a model 70 win xtr in exceptional condition . 243 was the caliber . very solid,simple design that can be easily tweaked for exceptional accuracy . same design features as howa/weatherby's except for the trigger .works for me :thumbsup:

i guess the moral to my story is you have to find what suits/works for you. and if you do get a new rifle that's problematic, you'll find out how good customer service is with the gunshop and supplier . the accuracy issues with the OP's rifle may mean a return to place of purchase if all other things have been looked at . 22-250 does generate lots of heat , i would be shooting slow three shot groups for accuracy tests myself

cheers
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 30 Mar 2021, 10:53 am

It seems Tikkas aren't as quality as they used to be.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bigrich » 30 Mar 2021, 11:06 am

in2anity wrote:It seems Tikkas aren't as quality as they used to be.


none of the new rifles seem to be, which is why i build up older stuff .

i've bought a new marlin 357 ,that was quite good . no complaints with that rifle once a WWG trigger went in it

i bought a new weighrauch hw66, well made but disapointed in the accuracy.i had owned a hw60j in 22 mag that was a tack driver

bought a new sauer 223 . well made , very average accuracy ,struggled to get under MOA with handloads . plastic trigger :wtf: synthetic rifles have no soul ;)

i've handled new rem 700 stainless rifles. the grain is so coarse it's easy to see the steel used is not as good as used in sako/tikka rifles. i have a background in foundry/metal work , it's easy to see once you know what your looking at

back to tikkas ,the machining and finish on my 1980 tikka m55 was as good as a sako L61 i own . the tikka had "cheap" wood and a couple of features i didn't like but . accurate, slick and a great trigger though
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 30 Mar 2021, 11:26 am

Yes I have a older t3 CTR which was perfect in every way. Shot in a queens with it, up against full-on custom builds and it just about kept up, albeit lagged a bit in the velocity dept. An honest 1/2 moa shooter. It was really only the 800m mound where the unexplainable 4s started appearing - but closing in on transonic at that distance out of the 20", you see.

I've since rebarrelled and rechassied, but purely for gained velocity and TR-class ergonomics. Smith told me the machining on the receiver was near enough perfect.

In recent times I've heard a few complaints about the new t3x's coming out, just a few... I swear there was a time when tikka issues were basically unheard of.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bigrich » 30 Mar 2021, 12:05 pm

in2anity wrote:
In recent times I've heard a few complaints about the new t3x's coming out, just a few... I swear there was a time when tikka issues were basically unheard of.


Standards are slipping all round I reckon. Sako aren’t immune either
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 30 Mar 2021, 12:33 pm

New brands come along, and have something to prove. That's when you want to buy - when a fresh company is still "up-and-coming".
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Bugman » 30 Mar 2021, 3:49 pm

Just missed out on a Parker Hale in 243. Beautiful condition. The seller had a couple of targets with groups of between .350 MOA and .650 MOA, with the relevant loading data for each. Yes, I must agree, a lot of the older stuff was better made.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Paul » 30 Mar 2021, 8:39 pm

SCJ429 wrote:Did you clean it for carbon and copper? Did you notice much copper fouling and did it come out easily?

You are getting a lot of vertical at times, are you shooting off a rest?



Yes cleaned several times over this short journey.

No,no signs of copper when l cleaned with Sweets.

Yes shooting of a rest - used both a bi-pod and bag. Same results.

P
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Paul » 30 Mar 2021, 8:43 pm

Bill wrote:Firstly 22-250's get hot real quick. Try 3 shot groups and let the barrel cool at least 5mins, 5 shot groups will need about 8 mins barrel cool down.

I had really good accuracy from Tikka branded 22-250 ammo ( I paid $65/50 locally).

Make sure you give the barrel a good clean. 22-250's generally arent too fussy with ammo but I have never tried the Hornady stuff or federal. It may take a few rounds to settle down.



Thanks Bill, will try letting get cooler, though it was prob over 10 mins between sets as I would go down range to check after each set of 3 or 4 rounds.

I have used at lease 3 diff types of ammo already including my hand load, which did the best so far. And Hornady is not cheap stuff $40/box of 20.

I don't buy the 'takes few to settle down' as these rifles are supposed to me MOA guaranteed out of the box. No way that would be the case if they had to 'settle down' as I presume they shot a group at the factory?

Thanks for the thoughts.

P
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Paul » 30 Mar 2021, 8:47 pm

Bill wrote:Have you taken the insert out of the stock? That is around the knox area of the barrel

A mates T3x shot Ave groups but not as bad as urs and when he removed the insert it shot alot better. Also check the barrel is free floated with a $5 note right at the forend. If its contacting then it need to be relieved. T3x don't have pillars for the action bolts so don't over torque them.



Thanks Bill, no I haven't done this. But will check it. Ive not pulled the action out of the stock at all, so I will do that and then check tensions etc. Not sure what you mean re the 'pillars' etc as Ive not looked as yet.

The barrel is fully clear of the stock, I can slide a business card - thicker that a $5 - all the way up to the action end.

Many thanks for the thoughts.

P
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Paul » 30 Mar 2021, 8:50 pm

Die Judicii wrote:I bought a brand new T3X not so long ago.
Found out very quickly that it had multiple issues right from the start.
The biggie's that could be part of what your experiencing (though I haven't yet seen your pic, cos it won't load up) are as follow,,

1) The trigger pull/release on mine was woeful. Fixed that by fitting a Yo Dave spring.

2) The recoil lug on mine was the (new issue steel lug that was supposed to have fixed the problems experienced by the alloy ones) but still wasn't
a good fit (p!ss poor in fact) it had a 3 - 4 mm slop.
Fixed that by full floating the barrel with 4mm clearance, and bedding the action and recoil lug.

The other numerous issues were also either fixed by myself or my gunsmith.

But by then I was so p!ssed off (like you said,,, they are supposed to be good straight out of the box) that I sold it flat out like a lizard drinking.


Never, ever again, will I buy a Tikka.



Hi DJ,

Thanks for making me feel so much optimism ;)

I can really see why you decided to ditch yours. I doubt I would o to anywhere near that much trouble to try and seemingly rectify a dodgy piece of gear. TWT. Hopefully some thing simple.

I agree, they should go MOA out of the box (unless some issue with scope mounting). No happy Jan.

Thanks

P
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Die Judicii » 30 Mar 2021, 10:23 pm

Paul wrote:
Die Judicii wrote:Hi DJ,

Thanks for making me feel so much optimism ;)

I can really see why you decided to ditch yours. I doubt I would o to anywhere near that much trouble to try and seemingly rectify a dodgy piece of gear. TWT. Hopefully some thing simple.

I agree, they should go MOA out of the box (unless some issue with scope mounting). No happy Jan.

Thanks

P


No worries Mate,,,,, "Optimisim" ,,,,,, that was the easy part.
I did say there were other issues with my Tikka as well. And one of the most basic others was that,,,, The timber stock wasn't even sealed properly.

Everytime I threw the damm thing up to my shoulder, any whiskers on my face would catch in the open grain,, and it was so damm annoying.

But,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, after all that I did to it ,, it did shoot accurately when I sold it.
But again, good $$$ spent on a new rifle should mean that it is finished properly and to a good standard,,,,, out of the box.

I went back to a HOWA to replace the Tikka,,,,,,,,,, and never regretted it.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Paul » 14 Apr 2021, 9:01 pm

Latest attempts....

I did a few of the suggested checks - took the action off and re tightened to suggested tension, checked scope ring tension.
Shot these groups today. Conditions reasonably good. My shooting pretty spot on based on the 22LR warm up.

IMG_3634.jpg
IMG_3634.jpg (251.05 KiB) Viewed 2653 times


The top right was with WIN brass V-Max 55gr, top left and bottom right Hornady brass 55gr V-Max. Both these with 32.5gr 2206H. Middle target 55gr Sierra BlitzKing 33.0gr 2208. Bottom left 40gr -Max 35gr 2206H.

So I don't think this rifle likes 55gr, OR I need to run a full set of loads through it as I am wondering if tit just likes stiff a bit faster. Those 40gr Z-Max are coming out at approx 3,800fps. The fact that none of the 55gr projectiles did any good - incl the 50 and 55gr factory loads from previous sighting attempt - is concerning as the 55gr in a 1:14 is the bread and butter weight. So its better, but hell, its taken over 60 shots to get this far. Not happy with that. Should have been much tighter from the get go. Compared to my Tikka T3 Lite in .308, this 22-250 is shooting crap. The 308 shot tight from the 4th or 5th round.......

Thoughts folk?

Kind regards,

Paul
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bladeracer » 14 Apr 2021, 9:27 pm

55gn is at the very top of the length that will stabilise in a 14"-twist, and polymer tips make them even longer. Try a flat-based soft-point, or hollow-point.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 14 Apr 2021, 9:34 pm

Were you shooting the 22lr also to 100m? Or just 50m? What’s your 22lr groups like?
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Paul » 15 Apr 2021, 8:27 am

in2anity wrote:Were you shooting the 22lr also to 100m? Or just 50m? What’s your 22lr groups like?


IMG_3635.jpg
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 15 Apr 2021, 8:49 am

I guess that's an expected outcome, if it was gusting. But if the wind was consistent, and the rifle and ammo was up to it, groups could be half that. I see 100m 22lr groups similar to that, from the sling (in favorable conditions).

You didn't happen to shoot the 22-250 at 50m, did you? (just as a direct comparison).
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Paul » 15 Apr 2021, 10:42 am

in2anity wrote:I guess that's an expected outcome, if it was gusting. But if the wind was consistent, and the rifle and ammo was up to it, groups could be half that. I see 100m 22lr groups similar to that, from the sling (in favorable conditions).

You didn't happen to shoot the 22-250 at 50m, did you? (just as a direct comparison).


No, not for that day.

22LR is a CZ452 BTW.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 15 Apr 2021, 11:16 am

A-HAH! Paul, as Blade alluded to, just crunching some numbers, this is almost certainly a stability issue, because of your slow 1:14". Check this out:

55grvmax.jpg
55gr at 3500fps w. 1:14"
55grvmax.jpg (317.7 KiB) Viewed 2604 times


Now, look with a bullet of length 0.517 (the 35 gr vmax):

35grvmax.jpg
35gr at 4000fps w. 1:14"
35grvmax.jpg (367.59 KiB) Viewed 2604 times


With the low stability value as shown, it's not at all surprising the size of those groups.

Can you get some short .224 bullets? Has to basically be under 0.6".
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Bill » 15 Apr 2021, 5:55 pm

Speer 50gr soft point is only 0.620, I had a quick check and cant seen any 224 pills any shorter, it might be worth trying to grab some and go from there

https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistic ... gths.shtml
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bladeracer » 15 Apr 2021, 6:05 pm

Pull the tips out of five and shoot them.


in2anity wrote:A-HAH! Paul, as Blade alluded to, just crunching some numbers, this is almost certainly a stability issue, because of your slow 1:14". Check this out:

55grvmax.jpg


Now, look with a bullet of length 0.517 (the 35 gr vmax):

35grvmax.jpg


With the low stability value as shown, it's not at all surprising the size of those groups.

Can you get some short .224 bullets? Has to basically be under 0.6".
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