Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 15 Apr 2021, 9:57 pm

bladeracer wrote:Pull the tips out of five and shoot them.

That's smart Blade. Is it really literally just a matter of length though? or the weight distribution along the (longer) length? for example, say the tip was copper, instead of poly, how would that change things? or would it not?
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bladeracer » 15 Apr 2021, 10:03 pm

in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Pull the tips out of five and shoot them.

That's smart Blade. Is it really literally just a matter of length though? or the weight distribution along the (longer) length? for example, say the tip was copper, instead of poly, how would that change things? or would it not?


Length only as far as I'm aware. If the tip was copper it'd be slightly heavier, but still too long to stabilise at that RPM.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 15 Apr 2021, 10:28 pm

bladeracer wrote:Length only as far as I'm aware. If the tip was copper it'd be slightly heavier, but still too long to stabilise at that RPM.

Imagine the weight distribution along the length of the bullet- surely more weight at the extremities would equal “harder to spin stabilize”? My point is. The light poly tip may not be very detrimental in that regard, I.e. it’s removal may not change much, even though the bullet is technically becoming “shorter”, if you get what I’m hypothesizing. I honestly don’t well comprehend what I’m talking about - maybe you are right, maybe it simply boils down to length, irrespective of weight distribution. Proof would absolutely be in the pudding.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bladeracer » 16 Apr 2021, 12:10 am

in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Length only as far as I'm aware. If the tip was copper it'd be slightly heavier, but still too long to stabilise at that RPM.

Imagine the weight distribution along the length of the bullet- surely more weight at the extremities would equal “harder to spin stabilize”? My point is. The light poly tip may not be very detrimental in that regard, I.e. it’s removal may not change much, even though the bullet is technically becoming “shorter”, if you get what I’m hypothesizing. I honestly don’t well comprehend what I’m talking about - maybe you are right, maybe it simply boils down to length, irrespective of weight distribution. Proof would absolutely be in the pudding.


I think having more mass around the outer circumference of the bullet helps to stabilise it, but I don't think fore and aft much matters. Deep hollow wadcutters work fine regardless of which way you load them, and that is probably about as extreme as you can get in a bullet.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Larry » 16 Apr 2021, 9:47 am

In your book on rockets this is explained it has to do with the point of balance and the drag. perhaps later I will dig it out if BR has not done it already.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by animalpest » 16 Apr 2021, 12:09 pm

While the stability charts may show that the 55 gr bullet is not stable in a !:14 twist, I have had plenty of rifles in that calibre that have shot fine with that twist rate. Always using 55 gr bullets. The 1:14 twist is designed around the 50 and 55 gr bullets and was being used long before lighter (40 gr) and heavier 60+ gr bullets became available.

Sako and Remington mostly, and given the Tikka is a Sako barrel then I cannot see why it wouldn't shoot.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bladeracer » 16 Apr 2021, 12:39 pm

animalpest wrote:While the stability charts may show that the 55 gr bullet is not stable in a !:14 twist, I have had plenty of rifles in that calibre that have shot fine with that twist rate. Always using 55 gr bullets. The 1:14 twist is designed around the 50 and 55 gr bullets and was being used long before lighter (40 gr) and heavier 60+ gr bullets became available.

Sako and Remington mostly, and given the Tikka is a Sako barrel then I cannot see why it wouldn't shoot.


Were you using boat-tail polymer-tipped 55gn bullets though?
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 16 Apr 2021, 12:46 pm

animalpest wrote:While the stability charts may show that the 55 gr bullet is not stable in a !:14 twist, I have had plenty of rifles in that calibre that have shot fine with that twist rate. Always using 55 gr bullets. The 1:14 twist is designed around the 50 and 55 gr bullets and was being used long before lighter (40 gr) and heavier 60+ gr bullets became available.

Sako and Remington mostly, and given the Tikka is a Sako barrel then I cannot see why it wouldn't shoot.


Yes perhaps originally the 22-250 was designed for the 50-55gr, but wasn't the standard twist rate for a .22-250 back then also a 1:12? I could be wrong...
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bladeracer » 16 Apr 2021, 1:12 pm

in2anity wrote:
animalpest wrote:While the stability charts may show that the 55 gr bullet is not stable in a !:14 twist, I have had plenty of rifles in that calibre that have shot fine with that twist rate. Always using 55 gr bullets. The 1:14 twist is designed around the 50 and 55 gr bullets and was being used long before lighter (40 gr) and heavier 60+ gr bullets became available.

Sako and Remington mostly, and given the Tikka is a Sako barrel then I cannot see why it wouldn't shoot.


Yes perhaps originally the 22-250 was designed for the 50-55gr, but wasn't the standard twist rate for a .22-250 back then also a 1:12? I could be wrong...


I think you might be right about the 12"-twist for the .22-250.
My .222Rem was 14"-twist, I managed to get it to shoot 55gn FMJ, but they're probably the shortest bullet design possible. 52gn and 53gn BTHP were better.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 16 Apr 2021, 2:51 pm

I'd give these a go:

https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/produc ... oint-100pk

Speers are pretty decent in my experience.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bladeracer » 16 Apr 2021, 4:26 pm

in2anity wrote:I'd give these a go:

https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/produc ... oint-100pk

Speers are pretty decent in my experience.


Agreed, an excellent choice if you want a heavier bullet in a 14"-twist.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Tilb004 » 17 Apr 2021, 5:53 pm

Hi Paul
Sorry to hear about your 250 tikka mate.
I’ve got one with the poly stock and fortunately it’s been a good shooter .
I bought a cheap borescope $60 recently that plugs in to my computer.
I’m amazed at what you can see .
It might pay to have a look down the barrel just in case it has slipped through quality control.
If you go to YouTube and type in 22-250 tikka barrel after clean it will show you what to expect .
I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the pic .
There might be some damage in your rifling that you don’t no about .
Hope you sort it mate
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Paul » 03 May 2021, 8:48 pm

Progress update:

At it again and this is the result:

Sighting check and fouling 2 rounds (grid is 17mm x 17mm appro 3/4") :

Sighting fouling shots.jpg
Sighting fouling shots.jpg (279.39 KiB) Viewed 1268 times



So I was pretty happy with that start. Again these were the 55gr V Max with 32.5gr 2206H. So onto the main show of loads. I use this perspective to clear away the distractions of the data and just look at the shots:

22 250 reverse.jpg
22 250 reverse.jpg (256.46 KiB) Viewed 1268 times


And from the front:

Result.jpg
Result.jpg (293.25 KiB) Viewed 1268 times


So some pretty encouraging groups, esp at 30.5gr and discounting the odd one at 34.5gr, that looks promising. Some more work needed.

So Im not sure where this puts the discussion on twist rate for the 55gr pills, esp with the sighting shots group, and the 30.5 gr group. I would anticipate looking at these two, and maybe the 33.5 a little closer. I also have a load devel. batch with ADI 2208, which many have said in other threads is a 'better' powder for 22/ 250. TWT.

Thoughts on this latest set of groups welcome.

And just so you know I was shooting pretty well there is this with the 22LR @ 50 m.

22LR @ 50m.jpg
22LR @ 50m.jpg (347 KiB) Viewed 1268 times


Thanks in advance for comments and thoughts.

Cheers,

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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 03 May 2021, 8:58 pm

Well it’s not you, we can rule that out, tidy group. Paul can you do us a favor, and mic your 55gr projectile? Just curious how long they measure...
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by animalpest » 03 May 2021, 9:55 pm

Bladeracer - plastic tipped and soft point.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by goldiexxxx » 04 May 2021, 4:58 am

As soon as I read you were using V-Max I thought that stability is your problem. I have not had good results with any Hornady ballistic tip in any caliber, never as good as a simple soft point or hollow point anyway. Even your last targets look like the holes are not round. Ditch the V-Max mate and get some 55gr soft points, choose your brand but Sierra Game Kings #1365 are a reliable choice. You have to do a whole batch from bottom to top load to see the result your looking for, just plucking one powder charge won’t prove much unless your just lucky. Good luck with it, l’m keen to watch your success.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bladeracer » 04 May 2021, 9:41 am

animalpest wrote:Bladeracer - plastic tipped and soft point.


Poly-tipped will definitely be a problem, and soft-points if they're boat-tailed could also be too long.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by bladeracer » 04 May 2021, 9:44 am

goldiexxxx wrote:As soon as I read you were using V-Max I thought that stability is your problem. I have not had good results with any Hornady ballistic tip in any caliber, never as good as a simple soft point or hollow point anyway. Even your last targets look like the holes are not round. Ditch the V-Max mate and get some 55gr soft points, choose your brand but Sierra Game Kings #1365 are a reliable choice. You have to do a whole batch from bottom to top load to see the result your looking for, just plucking one powder charge won’t prove much unless your just lucky. Good luck with it, l’m keen to watch your success.


Which calibers have you used them in? I use the Hornady VMax, SST, ELDX and ELDM of various weights in virtually everything, .204, .223, .243, 6.5x55mm, 7mm, .30-06, 8mm and others, with zero issues and excellent accuracy. If you have relaxed twist-rates though, all poly-tipped bullets will likely be too long to stabilise.
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by Blr243 » 04 May 2021, 3:32 pm

I also think v max to b up there in the accurate Bullet bunch. I thought they had a good rep for accuracy
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by in2anity » 04 May 2021, 3:36 pm

Blr243 wrote:I also think v max to b up there in the accurate Bullet bunch. I thought they had a good rep for accuracy

blr they sure do, provided they suit your twist. From what I understand, he's got a 1:14".
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Re: Sighting in new T3x 22-250 issues

Post by SCJ429 » 04 May 2021, 9:41 pm

You should have no stability problems using 55 grain Vmax in a 1:14 twist 22\250 barrel. Depending on how your brass is looking for pressure, I would push on to 36 grains of 2208 in steps, 35.7, 35.9 and 36.1. if you think stability is the issue, then every bit of speed helps. My Tikka 22\250 has shot 0.208 of an inch at 100 using Vmax and 36 grains of 2208. Not that 2206 or 8208 wouldn't give you a great result as well.
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