Buying a new .223

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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by solarpak » 29 Apr 2021, 9:27 pm

Kurnal wrote:Brief update. Thanks heaps to everyone for replying.

Spent a few hours in the car today and had a bit of an epiphany. I think I am suffering paralysis by analysis. So much info available it was doing my head in.

Who am I kidding. Haven’t shot much for 25 years. As if I am going to know the difference between all these options.

Tikka v Lithgow v Howa v others. Talk about overthink it. Also, who knows how i’ll end up actually using it, range v hunting %.

I’m buying a Lithgow. I like Aussie made and my sons recently joined the army. I like that they make his weapon. I’ll take advice on the scope from the LGS and buy the best my budget allows. Buying it from regional nsw. I’m lucky enough to travel around with work. Happy to support the regional towns.

Then i’ll go shoot it !!

Thanks again everyone.


Kurnal,
the Lithgow LA102 is a fine rifle indeed. I am lucky to have owned one in 308 Win as well as having owned many Howa's and Tikka's. All three are excellent rifles .
It will pay to check the twist rate on the current LA102 in 223 and match your ammunition accordingly. But personally the 223 is suited to 50-55 grain projectiles and with these you cant go far wrong.
Scope - but a fixed power 8x56 .........Hawke make one in the Endurance line with a nice illuminated reticle - for around $500 or so.

C.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by SCJ429 » 29 Apr 2021, 9:37 pm

Some of the worst advice you will get is from someone wanting to sell you something they have in stock. I bet you get recommended some Chinese scope like Zerotech or similar.

Buy the most expensive scope you can afford. Don't put some rubbish on your Lithgow.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by solarpak » 29 Apr 2021, 9:46 pm

SCJ429,
whats wrong with Chinese made scopes - or any optics made in China?
I was looking at a very nice GPO (German Precision Optics ) rangefinder tonight that i am reviewing - a superb little unit - and its made in China.

What a lot of folk dont understand is companies like GPO, Hawke, Zerotech get optics made for them to their PRECISE requirements by optics manufacturers in China. 20 years ago it was Japan that was doing the same.......
Yes European made optics like Swaro, Zeiss, Meopta still make most of their models in Europe but still source components from all over the globe - and also get some scope models made outside their native country.

But it sup to the individual as to what they spend their hard earned on - if you can afford Euro glass all and good - but for the rest of us there are a lot of other scope brands that are made outside of europe that are excellent ........and not to forget the venerable Leupold from the USA - as good as you will get.

C
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by boingk » 29 Apr 2021, 10:04 pm

Good stuff Kurnal!

One word from the 'budget hunter' side... I bought a used Ruger American 223 and its bloody brilliant. Short barrel 'Compact' variant and its a lovely thing in terms of accuracy. Very basic, no frills apart from the 70 degree bolt throw and two-stage blade trigger.

I fit it with a cheap Victoptics 1x18 red dot which allows playing card size groups at 100m+ with cheap PPU ammo or simple handloads. The thing weighs virtually nothing and works well for my intended purpose - a weatherproof scrub gun out to 150m.

If you're after a bit more legs on the rifle I'll vouch for Leupold. They just work, and at a reasonable price. The 2~7x33 is good, as is their 4~12x40 entry level models. Depends on how much range you want, but for sub $500 they're a very competant optic. Bushnell and Athlon also tend to get good reviews from shooters.

Whatever you get I'm sure you'll enjoy it. The Lithgows certainly aren't bad, and especially for the price. If it was my choice of a walk-around rifle though I'd definitely consider the Ruger American in either Ranch or Compact variants - very light and ideal for extended trips on foot.

Cheers - boingk
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by SCJ429 » 30 Apr 2021, 7:53 am

solarpak wrote:SCJ429,
whats wrong with Chinese made scopes - or any optics made in China?
I was looking at a very nice GPO (German Precision Optics ) rangefinder tonight that i am reviewing - a superb little unit - and its made in China.

What a lot of folk dont understand is companies like GPO, Hawke, Zerotech get optics made for them to their PRECISE requirements by optics manufacturers in China. 20 years ago it was Japan that was doing the same.......
Yes European made optics like Swaro, Zeiss, Meopta still make most of their models in Europe but still source components from all over the globe - and also get some scope models made outside their native country.

But it sup to the individual as to what they spend their hard earned on - if you can afford Euro glass all and good - but for the rest of us there are a lot of other scope brands that are made outside of europe that are excellent ........and not to forget the venerable Leupold from the USA - as good as you will get.

C

What Chinese scopes would you put on your rifle? I think it would be a shame to put one on an Australian built rifle.

Chinese scopes are made at a very low component and labour cost, components may cost less than $50 and labour less than $4 an hour.

I don't think you can compare a 20 year old Weaver optic to any Chinese made scope. I would take the old Weaver everytime.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Kurnal » 30 Apr 2021, 4:59 pm

What does everyone think of Leupold 4.5-14 x 50 for my Lithgow. Range work to 200-300 and hunting rabbits and foxes at likley lower ranges
CZ 455 .22LR Vixen 4-16 x 44
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Larry » 30 Apr 2021, 5:04 pm

As you say you want it as a cross over scope and range work to 300 I would suggest something that extends to the 25 mag range a 6-25 Bushnell or Athlon, ect. Aim small miss small
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by bladeracer » 30 Apr 2021, 5:07 pm

Kurnal wrote:What does everyone think of Leupold 4.5-14 x 50 for my Lithgow. Range work to 200-300 and hunting rabbits and foxes at likley lower ranges


I don't think the 50mm objective is needed, just adds bulk and weight.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by GQshayne » 30 Apr 2021, 7:30 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Kurnal wrote:What does everyone think of Leupold 4.5-14 x 50 for my Lithgow. Range work to 200-300 and hunting rabbits and foxes at likley lower ranges


I don't think the 50mm objective is needed, just adds bulk and weight.


Rabbits and foxes does suggest using a spotlight though.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Diamond Jim » 30 Apr 2021, 7:33 pm

solarpak wrote:SCJ429,
whats wrong with Chinese made scopes - or any optics made in China?
C


China have made huge leaps in the quality of many things they produce - using intellectual property possibly obtained by questionable means - and many manufacturers choose to manufacture in China to their specifications but I won't buy anything made in China if I can find an alternative until they grow up. That's my choice - yours may be different.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by bah! » 30 Apr 2021, 10:23 pm

Diamond Jim wrote:China have made huge leaps in the quality of many things they produce - using intellectual property possibly obtained by questionable means.


What, like when Australia bugged East Timor's embassy, to rip off an impoverished nation some meagre gas royalty?
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by scoot » 30 Apr 2021, 10:35 pm

To do your "crossover" duties you want low mag for closer range hunting of small critters but high mag for targets at 300+. To me this denotes the need for at least 5x, 6x, or 8x optical magnification so you can cover the broad range of mag. I've a nx8 which is nice, meopta optika6 is also very good, or vx5hd leupold. If you want the best of both ends you'll unfortunately have to front more cash since more optical mag = more cost. Cheap 3x scope will be less sh17 than a cheap 8x scope.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Kurnal » 01 May 2021, 5:53 am

Thanks. Scopes are so new to me.

To help me track down some options, what range and objective would be good? LGS recommended 4.5-14 x 50 but I get the objective at 50mm could be dropped to 40 for my use.

Is 4.5 -14 ok? Leupold have a few options of this in my budget.

Was thinking of spending up to $1000 or thereabouts if anyone comes across any deals out there.

Thanks heaps all.
CZ 455 .22LR Vixen 4-16 x 44
Ligthgow LA102 .223 Optika5 3-15 x 44
Tikka T3x Lite Stainless .308 Leupold Vx3i 4.5-14 x 40
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Kurnal » 01 May 2021, 5:55 am

Thanks. Scopes are so new to me.

To help me track down some options, what range and objective would be good? LGS recommended 4.5-14 x 50 but I get the objective at 50mm could be dropped to 40 for my use.

Is 4.5 -14 ok? Leupold have a few options of this in my budget.

Meopro Optika5 3-15x44 ?? Can get this for $650 or so

Was thinking of spending up to $1000 or thereabouts if anyone comes across any deals out there.

Thanks heaps all.
CZ 455 .22LR Vixen 4-16 x 44
Ligthgow LA102 .223 Optika5 3-15 x 44
Tikka T3x Lite Stainless .308 Leupold Vx3i 4.5-14 x 40
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Bill » 01 May 2021, 10:03 am

another option in the 4.5-14 range is the Meopta Meopro and I reckon better value than the Loopy 4.5-14.

Light transmission is pretty impressive, comes with turrets like the Leupold 4.5-14x50 CDS plus you get Paralax correction (mine is mounted on a 20 Hornet which will get used on close range hares and foxes).

https://www.thebarn.net.au/Products/Meo ... x50/106150
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by bah! » 01 May 2021, 11:10 am

There are a few meoptas around beings specialed off. I got a 6-18x50 for $550 from the Barn I think it was.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by in2anity » 01 May 2021, 11:54 am

If you can stretch to around a grand, I’d consider either the vx3i or Optika6. Nice glass in those.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by GQshayne » 01 May 2021, 7:22 pm

Kurnal wrote:Thanks. Scopes are so new to me.

To help me track down some options, what range and objective would be good? LGS recommended 4.5-14 x 50 but I get the objective at 50mm could be dropped to 40 for my use.

Is 4.5 -14 ok? Leupold have a few options of this in my budget.

Meopro Optika5 3-15x44 ?? Can get this for $650 or so

Was thinking of spending up to $1000 or thereabouts if anyone comes across any deals out there.

Thanks heaps all.



Do a bit of research on "exit pupil". This will be a consideration for light transmission at higher magnifications. If you are spotlighting, and want to use higher magnifications, then a 50mm objective is worth considering.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by solarpak » 02 May 2021, 12:34 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
solarpak wrote:SCJ429,
whats wrong with Chinese made scopes - or any optics made in China?
I was looking at a very nice GPO (German Precision Optics ) rangefinder tonight that i am reviewing - a superb little unit - and its made in China.

What a lot of folk dont understand is companies like GPO, Hawke, Zerotech get optics made for them to their PRECISE requirements by optics manufacturers in China. 20 years ago it was Japan that was doing the same.......
Yes European made optics like Swaro, Zeiss, Meopta still make most of their models in Europe but still source components from all over the globe - and also get some scope models made outside their native country.

But it sup to the individual as to what they spend their hard earned on - if you can afford Euro glass all and good - but for the rest of us there are a lot of other scope brands that are made outside of europe that are excellent ........and not to forget the venerable Leupold from the USA - as good as you will get.

C

What Chinese scopes would you put on your rifle? I think it would be a shame to put one on an Australian built rifle.

Chinese scopes are made at a very low component and labour cost, components may cost less than $50 and labour less than $4 an hour.

I don't think you can compare a 20 year old Weaver optic to any Chinese made scope. I would take the old Weaver everytime.




I dont think you understand what happens in an industrialised world.
Yes there are companies which use optics manufacturers in china - or the phillipines -or japan - or korea - to manufacture products TO A PRCE POINT.
Yes you will always get a scopes that are complete rubbish - and you will get some great stuff - it all depends on the company as to what specification they want manufactured and their pricing on that item.

If you dont want scopes manufactured in Asia - then that only leaves Leupold and the European brands - but have a real close look when you buy your Euro glass as to where its made - you could be surprised.

Dont get me wrong - i use Euro glass in Zeiss Duralyts and Meopta Meostar's - but also like the Hawke Endurance / Frontier.

All good :D
C.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Diamond Jim » 03 May 2021, 3:26 am

Not going to hijack this thread. Happy to continue discussion on Timor Leste elewhere.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by bigrich » 03 May 2021, 6:20 am

Kurnal wrote:Thanks. Scopes are so new to me.

To help me track down some options, what range and objective would be good? LGS recommended 4.5-14 x 50 but I get the objective at 50mm could be dropped to 40 for my use.

Is 4.5 -14 ok? Leupold have a few options of this in my budget.

Meopro Optika5 3-15x44 ?? Can get this for $650 or so

Was thinking of spending up to $1000 or thereabouts if anyone comes across any deals out there.

Thanks heaps all.


i use xv3i leupolds on all my rifles , magnification varies according to use

222,223 - 4.5-14x40 , range, varmit/culling work
243 win - 3.5-10x40 , general walk around
270 win - 3.5-10x40 , general walk around
358 win - 1.5-5x20 , scrub stalking , waterhole jumping for pigs , rarely comes of 1.5 setting

i also have a meopta 4-12x50 . as bill said , great glass and excellent value . but , the eye box is much bigger than a loopy . on rifles with bolt clearance issues , brno fox, mauser 98's , the loopys are better cause your not catching your fingers on the scope .
my meopta now lives on my weihrauch 22lr :wtf:
i find with the meopta once i've got the focus set for my eyes i can up the magnafication and not have to touch the eye focus . aside from adding a bit of weight that helps with balance on my 22lr, the ability to go up and down through magnification is handy for feild rifle comps at the range . i find with the loopy's they need a tweak to the focus if i vary the magnification greatly

leupold's are more compact with a 40mm objective and small eye box ,and are a bit lighter than meopta's . 50mm objective lense can just add bulk and be a pain in the @ss . i've used my 4.5-15 vx3's with spotlighting and had no issues

hope some of this helps :thumbsup:
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by No1_49er » 03 May 2021, 6:57 am

Leupold should be a prime consideration.
They produce an excellent range of scopes, but more importantly they have a 'Lifetime' warranty, no matter who the (current) owner is.
Best of all from that point of view is that Nioa have, within their facility in Qld, Leupold technicians who undertake that work right here in Australia.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Gun-nut » 03 May 2021, 6:18 pm

I wouldn't stress too much about the optic, as long as it's by a reputable manufacture and of decent quality. I would suggest for hunting you keep it on the lower end of the spectrum in regards to magnification, when a deer pops up you're not going to sit there playing with magnification and will probably be using it on a lower mag anyway majority of the time. Larger magnification causes weight and bulk that is unnecessary. Plenty of people, myself included hunt with iron sights anyway so whatever you choose will probably get the job done.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Paul » 03 May 2021, 8:11 pm

Kurnal wrote:Brief update. Thanks heaps to everyone for replying.

Spent a few hours in the car today and had a bit of an epiphany. I think I am suffering paralysis by analysis. So much info available it was doing my head in.

Who am I kidding. Haven’t shot much for 25 years. As if I am going to know the difference between all these options.

Tikka v Lithgow v Howa v others. Talk about overthink it. Also, who knows how i’ll end up actually using it, range v hunting %.

I’m buying a Lithgow. I like Aussie made and my sons recently joined the army. I like that they make his weapon. I’ll take advice on the scope from the LGS and buy the best my budget allows. Buying it from regional nsw. I’m lucky enough to travel around with work. Happy to support the regional towns.

Then i’ll go shoot it !!

Thanks again everyone.


Excellent decision Kurnal. I can really understand your sentiments having been through similar. easy to get muddled in the detail.
If your just getting back into it, you will have a good starting pack with the Lithgow by all accounts. And your approach with the scope is spot on. Buy the best you can afford. As my mentor said to me when considering a scope for my Tikka T3 Lite in .308 "Buy once, cry once". Its much better than regret "..... should got the......". I ended up with a Leica in their mid range. It was similar price to the rifle and I have absolutely no regrets, except I now want a Leica on every gun I have :o
Be keen to hear how the .223 goes.

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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Kurnal » 04 May 2021, 5:06 pm

To wrap this thread up.

Going with the Lithgow paired with a Meopta Optika5 4-20 x 44. Hoping to have it all in 2 weeks or so.

This site has been so helpful, thanks to everyone who took the time to reply. Very much appreciated.
CZ 455 .22LR Vixen 4-16 x 44
Ligthgow LA102 .223 Optika5 3-15 x 44
Tikka T3x Lite Stainless .308 Leupold Vx3i 4.5-14 x 40
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by solarpak » 04 May 2021, 8:52 pm

Diamond Jim wrote:Not going to hijack this thread. Happy to continue discussion on Timor Leste elewhere.


No offence taken Jim.......the world would be boring place if we all liked the same things .

All good .

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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by bigrich » 05 May 2021, 4:37 am

Kurnal wrote:To wrap this thread up.

Going with the Lithgow paired with a Meopta Optika5 4-20 x 44. Hoping to have it all in 2 weeks or so.

This site has been so helpful, thanks to everyone who took the time to reply. Very much appreciated.


Glad to hear it’s been of help, that’s what it’s here for :thumbsup:
Always good to have a new face on here with opinions /views to add as well :thumbsup:

Cheers
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by solarpak » 05 May 2021, 8:44 pm

Kurnal wrote:To wrap this thread up.

Going with the Lithgow paired with a Meopta Optika5 4-20 x 44. Hoping to have it all in 2 weeks or so.

This site has been so helpful, thanks to everyone who took the time to reply. Very much appreciated.


Very nice outfit Kurnal ......enjoy it to the maximum

C,
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Shootermick » 05 May 2021, 8:48 pm

Kurnal wrote:To wrap this thread up.

Going with the Lithgow paired with a Meopta Optika5 4-20 x 44. Hoping to have it all in 2 weeks or so.

This site has been so helpful, thanks to everyone who took the time to reply. Very much appreciated.



I’ve got a synthetic stock Lithgow 223 with a Meopta Meopro 6-18x50. I guarantee you won’t be disappointed.
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Re: Buying a new .223

Post by Oldbloke » 07 May 2021, 10:12 am

Kurnal wrote:Spent all weekend reading this forum and watching various reviews.

This is my first rifle for 35 years since growing up on a farm, where we had .22's, 22-250, shotguns and a few others.

Gun will be initially be used for 60% hunting, 40% range for practice and fun.

Of the hunting 80% will be foxes, rabbits and 20% possibly small deer. I wouldn't envisage taking anything too long range.


Kurnal


A decent 3-9x40, its a compromise like most things. But what l use.

A 3-9x50 should give a bit more in poor light. But heavier, bulkier and a lot dearer.

$300 to $500 should get something that will do the job.

P.S. you need 3 or 4 x for the close shots.
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