.50BMG explodes with serious injuries.

[bladeracer]

My opinion of the plug thread length engagement, shouldering and preloading hasn't changed.
That's not a great place to have the point of failure, it's just plain deadly.
I personally think that no thought has been put into engineering the rifle in such a way that in the event of failure the user is kept from almost certain death.
Having the breach plug and lugs fired at the user isn't ideal. Having a destroyed shoulder and a barrel sent down range would be a better option.
If I were to redesign that rifle, I'd be making sure that the weakest point was a point on the chamber area of the barrel, milled down to a flat on the top, allowing the chamber to to explode upwards sending the energy and shrapnel in a safer and more controlled direction. I'd definitely be making the breach plug thread and lugs a point of no failure.
Even a groove machined on the od just behind where the shoulder would be sitting inside, engineered blow the barrel forward.

Possibly, but entirely unnecessary, the design is far more than sufficient to contain the pressures of the cartridge, when it is properly loaded - these were not, and the action still contained the over-pressure of ten rounds far hotter than proof loads.

[InisBineest]

I doubt there will be a video on it any time soon, but I'd love to see the result of a Barret or an M2 detonating with the same round that Scott used in his test (180000psi I think it was).
I get that people see the failure mode of the RN-50 as deadly, and they are right, with that kind of overpressure it is. But I suspect a bolt or a carrier being launched back at the shooter would have a similar result.

And yes once more, it is a cheap rifle. But again, I don't see that being a result of a lesser quality, just a simpler, and slower to load and fire design. It is essentially the same design as an artillery piece with a threaded breech for loading.

When you remove just about all moving parts, and any capacity for rapid fire, of course it will be cheaper than a bolt action or a semi automatic. Making something with lesser quality isn't the only way to make something cheaper. Making it with simpler or even lesser function will do it too. Hell no one would have ever considered purchasing a single shot utility rifle if it cost the same as the M107A1.

[Oldbloke]

IMO nothing wrong (in principle) with using a thread to hold a breech plug in place. Been used for many years.

Is the thread long enough?
Is the thread best design. e.g. fine, course, deep enough?
Is the metallurgy up to strength?
Was the design ever tested to destruction?

They are the sort of Qns that need to be asked.

BTW, the so called lugs were never designed to take pressure/load. They were only there to ensure the plug was screwed all the way on.
If pressures are high enough bolt action lugs could give way. And they do. Some bolt actions in the past have only had 1 lug from memory. Might be corrected there.

And with litigation the way it is in the US I'm pretty sure the designers would have ensured the design would take the usual 60k PSI plus a significant safety margin.

I think it was the ammo.

breech.jpg (42.19 KiB) Viewed 3532 times

[bladeracer]

IMO nothing wrong (in principle) with using a thread to hold a breech plug in place. Been used for many years.

Is the thread long enough?
Is the thread best design. e.g. fine, course, deep enough?
Is the metallurgy up to strength?
Was the design ever tested to destruction?

They are the sort of Qns that need to be asked.

BTW, the so called lugs were never designed to take pressure/load. They were only there to ensure the plug was screwed all the way on.
If pressures are high enough bolt action lugs could give way. And they do. Some bolt actions in the past have only had 1 lug from memory. Might be corrected there.

And with litigation the way it is in the US I'm pretty sure the designers would have ensured the design would take the usual 60k PSI plus a significant safety margin.

I think it was the ammo.

breech.jpg

I think Scott's test was a test to destruction, though how close it was pushed to the edge by the previous ten over-charges is unknown. For it to lock the threads up so tight it was clearly deforming them. Perhaps another couple of those would've failed it, the 190K load may have been way over the top by that point. I wish Mark had put a pressure trace on the chamber before he sent it so we know exactly how hot those rounds were. The ammunition is only designed to 55,000psi, a proof round is only 65,000psi and does not lock the action up like that. The round that blew it was calculated at 190,000psi, probably very, very far above what any manufacturer could ever envisage being viably used. I don't believe the SLAP round is loaded any hotter than standard ammo.

[bladeracer]

BTW, the so called lugs were never designed to take pressure/load. They were only there to ensure the plug was screwed all the way on.
If pressures are high enough bolt action lugs could give way. And they do. Some bolt actions in the past have only had 1 lug from memory. Might be corrected there.

I'd like to see Mark test it with the cap only screwed on three threads, and two threads, even one full thread. He'd have to make a spacer to take up the headspace inside the cap.

[Oldbloke]

"I don't believe the SLAP round is loaded any hotter than standard ammo." I think that would make perfect sense. Other wise the military would need dedicated rifles to fire them. Obviously they were not "standard" SLAP rounds.

[InisBineest]

Another point to consider, as far as is publicly known, no one has been sued! If Scott has health insurance (I assume from some financial comments he made that he does) they would be very keen to sue the maker of the rifle if there was a case to be had... And given no court filing has been made known... I assume there is no case? (I'm well out of my field here)

[bladeracer]

Another point to consider, as far as is publicly known, no one has been sued! If Scott has health insurance (I assume from some financial comments he made that he does) they would be very keen to sue the maker of the rifle if there was a case to be had... And given no court filing has been made known... I assume there is no case? (I'm well out of my field here)

That is an excellent point, the cost of Scott's surgeries and rehab must've been well into the tens of thousands.
Here, there'd be no cost at all.

[InisBineest]

I doubt there will be a video on it any time soon, but I'd love to see the result of a Barret or an M2 detonating with the same round that Scott used in his test (180000psi I think it was).
I get that people see the failure mode of the RN-50 as deadly, and they are right, with that kind of overpressure it is. But I suspect a bolt or a carrier being launched back at the shooter would have a similar result.

And yes once more, it is a cheap rifle. But again, I don't see that being a result of a lesser quality, just a simpler, and slower to load and fire design. It is essentially the same design as an artillery piece with a threaded breech for loading.

When you remove just about all moving parts, and any capacity for rapid fire, of course it will be cheaper than a bolt action or a semi automatic. Making something with lesser quality isn't the only way to make something cheaper. Making it with simpler or even lesser function will do it too. Hell no one would have ever considered purchasing a single shot utility rifle if it cost the same as the M107A1.

Well I'll be damned!

https://youtu.be/xRufSjBtJNE

[Don_Stevenson]

Soooo let's see the cheap rifle took a bunch of those overpressure rounds to fail and the Barrett took...one

[Bill]

bit of a nuthing burger Video really, your comparing a Single shot to a Semi auto, they arent the same strength actions. He should have used a Bolt gun with LUGS

[InisBineest]

bit of a nuthing burger Video really, your comparing a Single shot to a Semi auto, they arent the same strength actions. He should have used a Bolt gun with LUGS

Good comparison between a "cheap" rifle and an expensive one. That I think is the main comparison I get out of it. More dollars does not always equal greater safety.

[bladeracer]

Soooo let's see the cheap rifle took a bunch of those overpressure rounds to fail and the Barrett took...one

Barrett? I missed the Barrett blow-up, can you post that?

[Larry]

Soooo let's see the cheap rifle took a bunch of those overpressure rounds to fail and the Barrett took...one

Barrett? I missed the Barrett blow-up, can you post that?

Its on kentucky ballistics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRufSjBtJNE along with another of the 50 he blew up last time. He fires 11 more of the same batch of Slap rounds then a purpose built over pressure round that blows it up.

I thought he was just going to fire the Slap rounds that didnt blow up the gun but probably did damage the gun to the point it would fail sometime down the track.

[bladeracer]

Soooo let's see the cheap rifle took a bunch of those overpressure rounds to fail and the Barrett took...one

Barrett? I missed the Barrett blow-up, can you post that?

Its on kentucky ballistics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRufSjBtJNE along with another of the 50 he blew up last time. He fires 11 more of the same batch of Slap rounds then a purpose built over pressure round that blows it up.

I thought he was just going to fire the Slap rounds that didnt blow up the gun but probably did damage the gun to the point it would fail sometime down the track.

Nice, I didn't realise he'd posted it today.

[Larry]

Strange I watched it two days ago.

[MontyShooter]

Makes you think twice about using someone's handloads when you don't know what's in there.

[on_one_wheel]

Makes you think twice about using someone's handloads when you don't know what's in there.

I'd NEVER use someone else's handloads.
It highlights just how hazardous reloading can be, I'm pretty sure I've even read in a reloading manual that using someone else's reloaded rounds is extremely dangerous as they have been developed for a different rifle, seating depth, fire formed to another chamber, length of necks, ... so many factors to create trouble.
Even your own loads should be developed specifically for the rifle, if you have 2 of the same calibres never assume what works well and is safe in one will be safe in another.

I've also heard that you won't find any incidents directly related to factory loaded ammunition, I wouldn't be surprised if that's true.

[bladeracer]

Makes you think twice about using someone's handloads when you don't know what's in there.

As far as I'm aware he believed these to be factory rounds, no indication they'd been tampered with at all.

[MontyShooter]

I don't think they've been made since the 80s so that's alot of time for things to get mixed up.

[bladeracer]

The latest from Mark Serbu.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8-eVoy38go

[Lazarus]

https://youtu.be/hsw70VfSFFw

[Lazarus]

You can't cure stupid, but you can give it a hint.

images (1) (29).jpeg (81.25 KiB) Viewed 2451 times

[bladeracer]

You can't cure stupid, but you can give it a hint.

images (1) (29).jpeg

Had a .303 squib yesterday and no rod to clear it. So I filled the bore with .22LR rounds and put pressure on top hoping the bullet was just into the rifling. Wouldn't budge with the light pressure I was willing to put onto it though
Last time it only went 7mm into the rifling and was easy to push out, this one went in 12mm and needed more effort.

[northdude]

Looks like a 50cal pipe bomb to me

[Lazarus]

Had a .303 squib yesterday and no rod to clear it. So I filled the bore with .22LR rounds and put pressure on top hoping the bullet was just into the rifling. Wouldn't budge with the light pressure I was willing to put onto it though
Last time it only went 7mm into the rifling and was easy to push out, this one went in 12mm and needed more effort.

I imagine you were extremely careful, but that wouldn't have been my first thought, you're braver than me.
I treat all ammo is if it's just waiting for me to give it the chance to take my face off.

[Apollo]

Had a .303 squib yesterday and no rod to clear it. So I filled the bore with .22LR rounds and put pressure on top hoping the bullet was just into the rifling. Wouldn't budge with the light pressure I was willing to put onto it though
Last time it only went 7mm into the rifling and was easy to push out, this one went in 12mm and needed more effort.

What sort of an irresponsible brainless idiot would do that.

No wonder so many people have left this Forum or like me just look and laugh at the idiots that are left.

With thousands of posts just a Forum Jockey.

BR, you really need a swift kick to wake you up.

[bladeracer]

Had a .303 squib yesterday and no rod to clear it. So I filled the bore with .22LR rounds and put pressure on top hoping the bullet was just into the rifling. Wouldn't budge with the light pressure I was willing to put onto it though
Last time it only went 7mm into the rifling and was easy to push out, this one went in 12mm and needed more effort.

I imagine you were extremely careful, but that wouldn't have been my first thought, you're braver than me.
I treat all ammo is if it's just waiting for me to give it the chance to take my face off.

It is rimfire, so no different to loading them into a tube magazine

I wasn't willing to hit the base of the top cartridge though, but it should've occurred to me to turn them around, banging on the bullet might've worked. But getting home and dropping a 6mm steel rod down the bore it did require quite a thump to dislodge the stuck bullet, so it probably wouldn't have worked. I did also consider firing a .22LR down the bore but quickly discounted that idea too

When I'm practicing Silhouette I use lengths of plastic tube with 15rds in each to speed load the tube magazine. It takes me nine minutes to load the twelve tubes so I do that beforehand, and carry them in a quiver made of poly pipe. I don't think I've ever filmed a reload but it's very quick to dump a 15rd tube into the magazine and continue shooting. Takes me about three minutes to shoot a 15rd string, and I can do a 180rd session in an hour, including walking up to photograph the targets after each string.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtEj2hde9Ho&t=32s

[bladeracer]

Had a .303 squib yesterday and no rod to clear it. So I filled the bore with .22LR rounds and put pressure on top hoping the bullet was just into the rifling. Wouldn't budge with the light pressure I was willing to put onto it though
Last time it only went 7mm into the rifling and was easy to push out, this one went in 12mm and needed more effort.

What an irresponsible brainless idiot would do that.

No wonder so many people have left this Forum or like me just look and laugh at the idiots that are left.

With tens of thousands of posts just a Forum Jockey.

What precisely do you find so upsetting about it?
No different to loading a tube magazine and pushing the follower back in.

[Apollo]

You really don't see the stupidity...??

Wow, there's a lot of difference.