Most accurate ammo for 6.5CM? / First Range day plan.

[sbd850]

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Hey all,

My first rifle is going to arrive in a few days time. It's a Tikka Super Varmint in 6.5 Creedmoor with an Athlon Argos 6-24 scope.

What's going to be the most accurate factory ammo for it? Is there a universal can't go wrong accurate round, or does it vary from rifle to rifle? I'm hoping to save some money and not have to buy a bunch of different brands.

My next question is about breaking the rifle in and zeroing. From everything I've researched, this is the plan I've come up with for my first range day with this rifle.

-Clean rifle after pick up
-Boresight at 50m, lining bore and scope up with point of aim.
-Shoot at point of aim using large target
-Hold point of aim and adjust scope to point of impact, keeping rifle still
-Shoot again at point of aim, hopefully be close
-Clean rifle
-Repeat process at 100 and fine tune until satisfactory zero, cleaning rifle every 2 shots
-Reset turret caps to zero at this point
-Clean rifle
-Fire 3 shot group
-Clean rifle
-Fire 5 shot group
-Clean rifle
-Fire 5 shot group
-Clean rifle
-Shoot at leisure

Is this a fairly solid plan? Is there anything I should add or subtract?

Thanks!

[in2anity]

No amount of planning will shortcut discovering what ammo your rifle "prefers"; you will only learn this through trial and error, ideally over varying distances. 100m groups only tell you what the load is doing at, well, 100m. The same goes with becoming a good shooter - nothing beats time on the trigger, under all conditions and ranges.

On a side note, handloading gives you power, in this regard, i.e. the ability to experiment, and more importantly reproduce, outside the whims of the factory ammo market...

The good news is, you have a high quality rifle with a quality, heavy barrel that will likely shoot most ammo extremely accurately and consistently. Consistency is king on the range. My guess is any "match" grade ammunition will meet your expectations in terms of accuracy. Those Tikka varmint rifles are basically a target rifle and do not disappoint when one marvels at their tiny benchrest groups.

When it comes to breakin, everybody has their own view on the subject. My only advice (and this applies to cleaning in general), use a quality cleaning rod, a bore guide, and don't overdo it. Let the chemicals do the work rather that vigorous manual intervention. Keep the chems out of the action, i.e. clean downhill and only "push forward". Less is more.

[deye243]

After having several custom match grade barrels over the years I have discovered that breaking in a barrel is a load of BS unless you are entering the world of serious benchrest shooting just put 5 rounds through clean it and then shoot it as you normally would it will not make any difference whatsoever especially in a factory .

[sbd850]

No amount of planning will shortcut discovering what ammo your rifle "prefers"; you will only learn this through trial and error, ideally over varying distances. 100m groups only tell you what the load is doing at, well, 100m. The same goes with becoming a good shooter - nothing beats time on the trigger, under all conditions and ranges.

On a side note, handloading gives you power, in this regard, i.e. the ability to experiment, and more importantly reproduce, outside the whims of the factory ammo market...

The good news is, you have a high quality rifle with a quality, heavy barrel that will likely shoot most ammo extremely accurately and consistently. Consistency is king on the range. My guess is any "match" grade ammunition will meet your expectations in terms of accuracy. Those Tikka varmint rifles are basically a target rifle and do not disappoint when one marvels at their tiny benchrest groups.

When it comes to breakin, everybody has their own view on the subject. My only advice (and this applies to cleaning in general), use a quality cleaning rod, a bore guide, and don't overdo it. Let the chemicals do the work rather that vigorous manual intervention. Keep the chems out of the action, i.e. clean downhill and only "push forward". Less is more.

Oh, I had thought it was relative across all distances, that if a certain ammo shot the best at 100, it would also be tighter than the others at all distances.

As for Handloading, I'll likely get into all that down the track. For now I just want to get into learning shooting well and elevation etc. before overwhelming myself with reloading etc.

Yeah I was tossing up between a Tikka and Howa 1500 for a good while but I'm glad I made the choice to go Tikka, especially with this new model. I love the new stock color and cerakote finish. As you said, no doubt it will shoot well. With the 2 stage trigger it's only an aftermarket chassis away from being similar to a Tac A1.

As for the breakin, yeah I was thinking spray and push the rod through on one forward motion.

Thanks for the info.

[in2anity]

Oh, I had thought it was relative across all distances, that if a certain ammo shot the best at 100, it would also be tighter than the others at all distances.

Of course it's a logical place to start, but for a given load, issues may not manifest until you start to stretch. For example a flat base bullet will not buck the wind as well as a boat-tail, but they can be more accurate at closer ranges. Another example is speed related; an old-school 55gr 223 round tends to lose stability at around 500yds, meaning accuracy rapidly falls off. And there are much more complex phenomena than this, like how different bullet types "converge" at longer distances and perform relatively better than you may ascertain at close range, but only at long distance... These are but a sprinkle of examples. The point is, only experience and experimentation will guide you to what particular ammunition is most suitable to your specific gun and usage requirements. Heck maybe you'll only ever do 200m benchrest, in which case your cartridge requirements will be vastly different to what they need to be for 800m F-class...

Yeah I was tossing up between a Tikka and Howa 1500 for a good while but I'm glad I made the choice to go Tikka, especially with this new model. I love the new stock color and cerakote finish. As you said, no doubt it will shoot well. With the 2 stage trigger it's only an aftermarket chassis away from being similar to a Tac A1.

Both a single and two stage-trigger can be mastered... with practice. I used to be fussy about only shooting single stages, until I started shooting Service Rifle, where pretty much all rifles have their heavy, two-stage infantry triggers and you just have to deal with it. As a result of all the practice, on a good day, out of the sling, I can shoot my accurized No4 just as well as any "modern" rifle (with its fancy single stage) I have in my safe. It all just boils down to practice, technique and good sight picture.

Good luck with it all - you won't do any harm doing the "breakin" cleaning thing, and your plan seems fine, but I wouldn't get too hung up on that breakin stuff - just go shoot her, and enjoy. Keep good notes. Google spreadsheets are awesome. Just clean thoroughly before you put her back in the safe is all.

[SCJ429]

You need to keep an eye out for copper fouling when running it in. To see the copper you will need to clean the carbon out. If it copper fouls after one round, clean it with copper solvent until it is removed. No copper fouling, keep shooting.

For short range shooting, out to 300 metres, flat based bullets work best. For 500 metres and beyond, high BC bullets earn their keep.

[SCJ429]

You are right about sighting in, set your target close at 50 metres or even closer. With the bolt removed, centre the bore in the middle of the target. Without moving the rifle, centre the scope onto the target and fire a shot. Then put your revival back onto the spot you aimed at and wind to the bullet hole. Then shoot at a 100 metre target and again wind to where the bullet landed. You should be zeroed at 100.

[Medb]

Have you factored in how much 6.5 creedmoor factory ammo actually costs? Especially if you are a new shooter and going to be learning with it, and wanting to shoot lots of it.

I would be buying whatever you can find cheapest and buying it in large quantities to get a discount. Don't even think about touching those boxes of premium match ammo that cost $60+ a box, it'll just be waste. Also make sure to save your brass so you will have a good stock for if you get into reloading.

The whole excessive cleaning during break in isn't really necessary.

[sbd850]

Have you factored in how much 6.5 creedmoor factory ammo actually costs? Especially if you are a new shooter and going to be learning with it, and wanting to shoot lots of it.

I would be buying whatever you can find cheapest and buying it in large quantities to get a discount. Don't even think about touching those boxes of premium match ammo that cost $60+ a box, it'll just be waste. Also make sure to save your brass so you will have a good stock for if you get into reloading.

The whole excessive cleaning during break in isn't really necessary.

Yeah I have, but if I get the cheap stuff I won't really have a feel for how accurate the rifle is until I get into reloading.

[Harronek]

I’d be interested in knowing how many of the responders to this thread own or have had hands on experience with the 6.5 CM ?

[MontyShooter]

Can't go wrong with hornady match ammo in 140g. Should be able to still get it under $3 a shot. My tikka doesn't really like the 147g.

As for barrel break-in...Tikka barrels are hammer forged so there's nothing to break in.

[poid]

As mentioned above the Hornady Match in 140gr seem to shoot the best; the ELD-M bullets in those rounds are also used by a lot of comp shooters in hand loads. For break in, and for most of my range shooting actually, I use cheaper rounds as the Match do cost a bit and can be harder to get (my LGS currently has no stock with 2000 rounds on backorder).

I've broken some rifles in, not broken in others...they all shoot well so I can't tell the difference.

[sbd850]

Alrighty I'll try the Hornady and won't worry about the break in as much.

As for zeroing using the method of holding the point of aim then adjusting the reticle to the point of impact, then reset the turret caps to be on zero at that point - will doing this make the scope function in reverse?
Say I shoot high and to the right, I'd need to adjust down and left to match the point of aim. However if I hold the point of aim and adjust to the impact point, I'd be adjusting right and up to make that the zero point. Does this effect how the scope works?

[MontyShooter]

Can't go wrong with hornady match ammo in 140g. Should be able to still get it under $3 a shot. My tikka doesn't really like the 147g.

As for barrel break-in...Tikka barrels are hammer forged so there's nothing to break in.

[in2anity]

Alrighty I'll try the Hornady and won't worry about the break in as much.

As for zeroing using the method of holding the point of aim then adjusting the reticle to the point of impact, then reset the turret caps to be on zero at that point - will doing this make the scope function in reverse?
Say I shoot high and to the right, I'd need to adjust down and left to match the point of aim. However if I hold the point of aim and adjust to the impact point, I'd be adjusting right and up to make that the zero point. Does this effect how the scope works?

No you cannot “reverse” the adjustment, the scope only functions an explicit way. When it comes to using a modern scope, think of the turrets as “screws” that are pushing the hole around. Righty-tighty, lefty-lucy sort of thing. You are over analyzing it - just settle her in your rest, align your bore on your target, then look through the scope to see where the reticle is. Adjust the reticle until it’s closer to the target. Then switch to the bore again to verify it’s close to the target again, rinse repeat a few times, until you are fairly satisfied the two are more or less aligned (don’t go overboard), then fire a shot. You will be on paper. Adjust your sights to get on the bull, shoot a group, adjust some more as required then you are “zeroed”. At the end reset the turrets to your zero. Piece of piss. Remember your zero will be for the windage on the day, but a 6.5 at 100m won’t be affected too much.

[SCJ429]

I’d be interested in knowing how many of the responders to this thread own or have had hands on experience with the 6.5 CM ?

Looks like I am not qualified to comment on this thread then. Not that I understand why the CM is any different to tune than another 6.5 case. What is your experience shooting 6.5 bullets?

Also if you go to a competition you will be hard pressed to find anyone using Hornady ELDX bullets.

[Gamerancher]

Yeah. the "X" stands for "eXpanding" , it's the hunting version. Similar ballistically but different jacket design.
My Creedmoor, ( yes, Harronek, I do own and shoot one ), shoots the 147M's very well, it will print 2-3" groups @ 500m no worries, but it is a custom rifle, has a 1 in 7.5" twist and I use my own loaded ammo, I've never shot a factory load through it.
As for what shoots at 100m holding up at any distance, yeah....NAH!
BUT, in saying that, I used to have a 6.5/257 Ackley that would only shoot 1-1/2" groups @100m with a 155gr Sierra match-king ( no longer available ), but would hold that same 1 1/2" group @ 500m, go figure.

[in2anity]

BUT, in saying that, I used to have a 6.5/257 Ackley that would only shoot 1-1/2" groups @100m with a 155gr Sierra match-king ( no longer available ), but would hold that same 1 1/2" group @ 500m, go figure.

maybe http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/news/ ... performers just maybe...

whether this is scientifically bogus or not, there's certainly some behavior that's hard to explain...

[disco stu]

Doesn't the 6.5cm sight itself in?

Sorry, couldn't help myself after not seeing any creedmoor bagging on this thread. About the only place on the internet where this caliber is mentioned and no one has started going on about it.

With your sighting in, just stick to your initial plan as the logic is fine and it works well. I find a lot of movement in most bags/rests for adjusting the scope in that way, so getting a strap to whack around bag and rifle to hold everything in tight and minimize movement can help. Strap it up, adjust till scope is back at aiming point and then adjust to point of impact. Don't shoot with the strap though.

You sound confused when you mention scope working in reverse. Just remember that moving scope crosshairs to the right will move impact point of bullet to the left etc etc

[sbd850]

Doesn't the 6.5cm sight itself in?

Sorry, couldn't help myself after not seeing any creedmoor bagging on this thread. About the only place on the internet where this caliber is mentioned and no one has started going on about it.

With your sighting in, just stick to your initial plan as the logic is fine and it works well. I find a lot of movement in most bags/rests for adjusting the scope in that way, so getting a strap to whack around bag and rifle to hold everything in tight and minimize movement can help. Strap it up, adjust till scope is back at aiming point and then adjust to point of impact. Don't shoot with the strap though.

You sound confused when you mention scope working in reverse. Just remember that moving scope crosshairs to the right will move impact point of bullet to the left etc etc

Haha yeah I was surprised how long this thread lasted without giving the 6.5 a bit of s**t haha,

Yeah I'm mainly confused about whether it effects the total mils I can adjust if I zero to the point of impact and then reset the turret cap, is the internal dial limited to the amount of rotations it can do?

[Gamerancher]

in2anity, yeah, nah. Different set of circumstances. Without name dropping, a well known, accomplished bench-rester and fly shooter commented to me once at the range that he used to have a rifle in the same chambering. When discussing the results I was getting with the 155's he believed it was a case of them not being stabilised at 100m but that they "settled down" further down range. They were a very long bullet and I was launching them at @3000 f/s with that case in a 1 in 8" barrel. I only used them for the 500m rams, never had one stand with that round.

[in2anity]

in2anity, yeah, nah. Different set of circumstances. Without name dropping, a well known, accomplished bench-rester and fly shooter commented to me once at the range that he used to have a rifle in the same chambering. When discussing the results I was getting with the 155's he believed it was a case of them not being stabilised at 100m but that they "settled down" further down range. They were a very long bullet and I was launching them at @3000 f/s with that case in a 1 in 8" barrel. I only used them for the 500m rams, never had one stand with that round.

Right, yes, I've seen that before. I have a Swaro spotter, and when the boil isn't too bad and lighting is just perfect for the angle you are spotting at, you can see how well the round is being stabilized, i.,e. how much of a wobble it has from the vapor. Sometimes, you can actually see them settle once they get out there. For example, here's a SMLE that (in my eyes) seems to be stabilizing super well. https://youtu.be/id71dx3aIzs

In contrast, I had a blackout barrel + particular load that did the opposite to what you say; it was reasonably stable at 100m, but lost stability much faster than desirable after that. A new match barrel with a slower twist and short throat cured that problem.

[Gamerancher]

sdb850 wrote " is the internal dial limited to the amount of rotations it can do?"
Yep, it sure is. Every scope has a limited range of adjustment. The more you shift the reticule in your initial sight in, the less adjustment you will have.
For example, if you have to wind 4 inches of left and 3 inches up to get on target @50m, you are going to run out of elevation real quick when it comes to adjusting for long range. Another problem with winding a bunch of windage to get a no wind zero is, that if and when you do need to crank up on elevation your reticule mechanism will hit the side of the tube well before it runs out of elevation adjustment. If you keep cranking on the elevation turret, the reticule will be pushed sideways back towards centre.
I've seen folks do this and then send their scopes back for warranty because they believe it to be "broken" because their windage goes "berserk" when they top out the adjustments.
Quality scopes come from the factory with everything centred, I find it is always better to have windage adjustable mounts and use those to get a no-wind zero, that gives the you maximum vertical adjustment available for the scope.

[SCJ429]

Yeah. the "X" stands for "eXpanding" , it's the hunting version. Similar ballistically but different jacket design.
My Creedmoor, ( yes, Harronek, I do own and shoot one ), shoots the 147M's very well, it will print 2-3" groups @ 500m no worries, but it is a custom rifle, has a 1 in 7.5" twist and I use my own loaded ammo, I've never shot a factory load through it.
As for what shoots at 100m holding up at any distance, yeah....NAH!
BUT, in saying that, I used to have a 6.5/257 Ackley that would only shoot 1-1/2" groups @100m with a 155gr Sierra match-king ( no longer available ), but would hold that same 1 1/2" group @ 500m, go figure.

Your right, sorry I meant the ELDM. You will not find any red tipped bullets at most competitions.

[Gamerancher]

Yeah, you will, the "M's" have the red tip as well.

[Harronek]

Are you using the rifle for Hunting / Targets or both ?

These two factory loads shoot the best out of my Tikka and as luck would have it they are both designed for Hunting which is why I own the 6.5 .

[sbd850]

Are you using the rifle for Hunting / Targets or both ?

These two factory loads shoot the best out of my Tikka and as luck would have it they are both designed for Hunting which is why I own the 6.5 .

Thanks!

Primarily target shooting to start off, though I may get into hunting down the track.

[solarpak]

welcome to the 6.5 CM fray - some folk love em - some bag em - to me its just another calibre which i do own.

Mine is a Howa stainless sporter in a McMillan McSwirley stock and is purely a hunting outfit - no interest in long range malarkey!!!
I initially sighted it in with Federal Fusion ammo - as i wanted a decent factory load with a bonded bullet (for deer) and to date the combination has worked well.

I have saved the fire formed cases and got a mate to reload them with Sierra Game Kings (140gr) as a back - up supply to the Federal Fusions..

I agree with several other posters - start with inexpensive ammo (if there is any about) and just sight it in to shoot 50mm high at 100m (if your going to hunt) or if you are strictly range shooting get it sighted in at point of aim at 100m (zero)

As a hunting calibre out to 300 m (on a standard sporter ) the 6.5 creedmoor has worked very well. Previous to the 6.5 CM by back up deer rifle was a 243 Win and whilst it worked very well on deer up to red deer in size, in a few instances it was marginal on larger red deer stags even with a 105 gr hunting load. The 6.5 CM has worked well on the bigger animals with the heavier projectile weights.

Enjoy the Creedmoor

C.