animalpest wrote:Thanks. Using "unethical gear" could certainly land you in trouble for cruelty. If you are taking all reasonable means to avoid cruelty when shooting and your methods/equipment is "usual and reasonable" then you should be covered.
If you are doing what is outside of that then look out.
When I have conducted aerial culls, I stipulate that 3 separate Go pro be used. This is the evidence of performance.
ZaineB wrote:animalpest wrote:Thanks. Using "unethical gear" could certainly land you in trouble for cruelty. If you are taking all reasonable means to avoid cruelty when shooting and your methods/equipment is "usual and reasonable" then you should be covered.
If you are doing what is outside of that then look out.
When I have conducted aerial culls, I stipulate that 3 separate Go pro be used. This is the evidence of performance.
Some people consider 308win sufficient for this, I don't, in a hunting scenario even a 22lr could do the job up close intimate with headshot, or to the jugular/spine. But for culling I think 40cal plus is best, or some higher powered 338+ calibers, having seen evidence of peoples 30cals (including mine) being insufficient at best. I am toying with the idea of a ruger #1 in 45-70 myself or maybe 458win if I drum up the energy to keep heading north, but then again, I spend so much time on the fox shooting regime its not something I do that often so haven't weighed the costs yet.
An automatic with a 308 is fine if the follow up is done immediately and properly. but sadly I have seen as well as the uncle and the old man where many have failed this numerous times, donks, camels, roos, even pigs at different places state wide, makes us all look bad when this stuff makes airtime or the light of day. Admittedly I get most peeved with the roos being left to die slowly, this is the most common one I see and sadly its the "locals" that do it and thusly nothing gets done about it.
I like the idea of the camera, I tried to run a gopro on the hat (kept getting knocked on car roof) and one on the rifle but the 300 kept shaking the mount loose, so that was a flop.
bigrich wrote:ZaineB wrote:animalpest wrote:Thanks. Using "unethical gear" could certainly land you in trouble for cruelty. If you are taking all reasonable means to avoid cruelty when shooting and your methods/equipment is "usual and reasonable" then you should be covered.
If you are doing what is outside of that then look out.
When I have conducted aerial culls, I stipulate that 3 separate Go pro be used. This is the evidence of performance.
Some people consider 308win sufficient for this, I don't, in a hunting scenario even a 22lr could do the job up close intimate with headshot, or to the jugular/spine. But for culling I think 40cal plus is best, or some higher powered 338+ calibers, having seen evidence of peoples 30cals (including mine) being insufficient at best. I am toying with the idea of a ruger #1 in 45-70 myself or maybe 458win if I drum up the energy to keep heading north, but then again, I spend so much time on the fox shooting regime its not something I do that often so haven't weighed the costs yet.
An automatic with a 308 is fine if the follow up is done immediately and properly. but sadly I have seen as well as the uncle and the old man where many have failed this numerous times, donks, camels, roos, even pigs at different places state wide, makes us all look bad when this stuff makes airtime or the light of day. Admittedly I get most peeved with the roos being left to die slowly, this is the most common one I see and sadly its the "locals" that do it and thusly nothing gets done about it.
I like the idea of the camera, I tried to run a gopro on the hat (kept getting knocked on car roof) and one on the rifle but the 300 kept shaking the mount loose, so that was a flop.
what are you culling that a 308 is insufficient and a 40cal or 338 is more suitable ? not arguing , just wanting clarification on what game requires these calibers when being culled
animalpest wrote:"Double tap" is only a requirement when aerial culling. A .308 if fine for large feral herbivores. If the shooter is trained, skilled, keeps shots reasonable ranges and hits them in the right place. Most people who shoot camels don't heart shoot, they chest shoot. You still want humanely kill them with a 458 WM if you merely aim for the middle of their chest.
Legally you can hunt with any calibre. Killing an animal is not in itself an act of cruelty. But if you only wound them with a sub-calibre or bad bullet choice then that will cause problems.
Go pro are really only good for what we use them for at close range. The footage is our insurance against any enquiries or claims.
The .308 is fine for donkeys and camels. It's the idiot behind it is what causes the problems.
animalpest wrote:"Double tap" is only a requirement when aerial culling. A .308 if fine for large feral herbivores. If the shooter is trained, skilled, keeps shots reasonable ranges and hits them in the right place. Most people who shoot camels don't heart shoot, they chest shoot. You still want humanely kill them with a 458 WM if you merely aim for the middle of their chest.
Legally you can hunt with any calibre. Killing an animal is not in itself an act of cruelty. But if you only wound them with a sub-calibre or bad bullet choice then that will cause problems.
Go pro are really only good for what we use them for at close range. The footage is our insurance against any enquiries or claims.
The .308 is fine for donkeys and camels. It's the idiot behind it is what causes the problems.
bigrich wrote:animalpest wrote:"Double tap" is only a requirement when aerial culling. A .308 if fine for large feral herbivores. If the shooter is trained, skilled, keeps shots reasonable ranges and hits them in the right place. Most people who shoot camels don't heart shoot, they chest shoot. You still want humanely kill them with a 458 WM if you merely aim for the middle of their chest.
Legally you can hunt with any calibre. Killing an animal is not in itself an act of cruelty. But if you only wound them with a sub-calibre or bad bullet choice then that will cause problems.
Go pro are really only good for what we use them for at close range. The footage is our insurance against any enquiries or claims.
The .308 is fine for donkeys and camels. It's the idiot behind it is what causes the problems.
i've heard of camels being head shot with 243's with heavy for caliber projectiles and going down, no worries that old saying about bullet placement hey
i understand where zaine was coming from now . if going for chest shots those larger calibers make perfect sense
Kurnal wrote:So the advice on here was super helpful in helping me choose my Lithgow .223, and I couldn't be happier with it.
Now I am looking for a larger calibre for bigger game hunting. Deer and pigs mainly. Researching this will be a good way to spend lockdown here in Sydney.
I would love to get another Lithgow, but I feel it will be too heavy as I will be doing multi day trips covering a lot of ground. Hope to do some guided stuff in NZ if and when we can ever travel again.
Happy to spend a few grand on the gun.
Throw some suggestions at me !
Thanks all.
bigrich wrote:maybe we got off topic , but it's been interesting regardless
i actually thought we deduced a 308 with a 3-9 would be perfect a couple of pages ago .......
Oldbloke wrote:bigrich wrote:maybe we got off topic , but it's been interesting regardless
i actually thought we deduced a 308 with a 3-9 would be perfect a couple of pages ago .......
Yep, Im just suggesting. They do often wander off topic but this just seemed way off. Lol
Kurnal wrote:If anyone is interested and back on topic, I have gone with a Tikka T3x Lite Stainless with Leupold Vx3i 4.5-14 x 40mm
Thanks for all the help (and other information)
pilotsignal wrote:Hi Guys,
I may have a bit odd question so, please be kind.
Due to limited budget, I am afraid I can't afford more than 1 rifle and I have initially decided to get 22WMR for myself. Then, reading many posts and talking to couple of friends, I started to shift my view to something bigger like 223REM or 308WIN.
As I am going to shoot predominately at the range for a year or so, I want to ask your opinion whether both 223 and 308 are good for target shooting at all?
I understand that I may be able to get some used 22 as my second rifle, but honestly I'd rather have 1 good new rifle instead of 2 cheap ones.
ZaineB wrote:pilotsignal wrote:Hi Guys,
I may have a bit odd question so, please be kind.
Due to limited budget, I am afraid I can't afford more than 1 rifle and I have initially decided to get 22WMR for myself. Then, reading many posts and talking to couple of friends, I started to shift my view to something bigger like 223REM or 308WIN.
As I am going to shoot predominately at the range for a year or so, I want to ask your opinion whether both 223 and 308 are good for target shooting at all?
I understand that I may be able to get some used 22 as my second rifle, but honestly I'd rather have 1 good new rifle instead of 2 cheap ones.
started out talking money, so cut out the 30cal and throw it aside for later on when financials change, stick with 223, bulk ammo can be found cheap as (compared to per box) whilst this is true of 30cal its not as cheap as 22cal, 223 can be reloaded cheap as heck, especially if you arent trying to get amazing scores while you get used to shooting, bulk pills can be found, usually aimed at roo shooters but none the less theyre nice and cheap. I can reload my 223 for about 23 cents a shot and get usable accuracy, and about 39cents with nosler ballistic tips. you simply cant get 30cal this cheap.
there are a lot of good platforms to buy when buying 223, Howa, Remington, Ruger, Savage, CZ, Lithgow, Mauser, Tikka, Sauer, all hover around or below the $1k mark and all are good shooters with a few standouts being more customizable than others, namely Howa 1500 and Remington 700 etc.
Lsfan wrote:ZaineB wrote:pilotsignal wrote:Hi Guys,
I may have a bit odd question so, please be kind.
Due to limited budget, I am afraid I can't afford more than 1 rifle and I have initially decided to get 22WMR for myself. Then, reading many posts and talking to couple of friends, I started to shift my view to something bigger like 223REM or 308WIN.
As I am going to shoot predominately at the range for a year or so, I want to ask your opinion whether both 223 and 308 are good for target shooting at all?
I understand that I may be able to get some used 22 as my second rifle, but honestly I'd rather have 1 good new rifle instead of 2 cheap ones.
started out talking money, so cut out the 30cal and throw it aside for later on when financials change, stick with 223, bulk ammo can be found cheap as (compared to per box) whilst this is true of 30cal its not as cheap as 22cal, 223 can be reloaded cheap as heck, especially if you arent trying to get amazing scores while you get used to shooting, bulk pills can be found, usually aimed at roo shooters but none the less theyre nice and cheap. I can reload my 223 for about 23 cents a shot and get usable accuracy, and about 39cents with nosler ballistic tips. you simply cant get 30cal this cheap.
there are a lot of good platforms to buy when buying 223, Howa, Remington, Ruger, Savage, CZ, Lithgow, Mauser, Tikka, Sauer, all hover around or below the $1k mark and all are good shooters with a few standouts being more customizable than others, namely Howa 1500 and Remington 700 etc.
Geez, reloading 23 to 39 cents. That’s pretty good. I wondered how it works out. Cheapest factory ammo is around $1. Maybe I need to start reloading!
Lsfan wrote:
Geez, reloading 23 to 39 cents. That’s pretty good. I wondered how it works out. Cheapest factory ammo is around $1. Maybe I need to start reloading!
Oldbloke wrote:Lsfan wrote:
Geez, reloading 23 to 39 cents. That’s pretty good. I wondered how it works out. Cheapest factory ammo is around $1. Maybe I need to start reloading!
Yes, cheaper and generally better accuracy. And you never change brands. Lol
Of the components, bullets are the dearest. So chase cheap bullets. Buy in bulk if you can.
Lsfan wrote:Geez, reloading 23 to 39 cents. That’s pretty good. I wondered how it works out. Cheapest factory ammo is around $1. Maybe I need to start reloading!
Lsfan wrote:Anyway a guy at the range asked “can I take your brass?” I said sure I’m not reloading. He said “one of the brass types is a funny colour”. He took it anyway.
It was actually Hornady steel match ammo of which I fired all 50. Can’t reload steel cases can you?
boingk wrote:
Where it gets really interesting is the big boppers like 45-70 or the big game magnums. They're often upward of $5 a round. I can reload my 45-70 for 60c or so a round, and cheapest factory ammo is about $3.50 a shot.