Got the .223, now for something bigger !

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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Jul 2021, 2:55 pm

boingk wrote:Only drama with the 6.5 is (I think) it isn't legal for certain game in some states... if you're at all concerned about that.


That's why I recommended 30.06 270, 308, 7x57
Vic minimum requirements below.

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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by bah! » 12 Jul 2021, 3:19 pm

7mm08?
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Jul 2021, 3:29 pm

bah! wrote:7mm08?


Yep, that's another
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by ZaineB » 12 Jul 2021, 3:46 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
boingk wrote:Only drama with the 6.5 is (I think) it isn't legal for certain game in some states... if you're at all concerned about that.


That's why I recommended 30.06 270, 308, 7x57
Vic minimum requirements below.

Min Deer Cartridges New.JPG



keeping in mind these minimums arent just on bullet diameter but on energy hence minimum bullet weights, so whilst there are some smaller less costly (if reloading) options above .277 cal there are a few that dont make it even closely on energy when compared to the .270
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Jul 2021, 6:01 pm

ZaineB wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
boingk wrote:Only drama with the 6.5 is (I think) it isn't legal for certain game in some states... if you're at all concerned about that.


That's why I recommended 30.06 270, 308, 7x57
Vic minimum requirements below.

Min Deer Cartridges New.JPG



keeping in mind these minimums aren't just on bullet diameter but on energy hence minimum bullet weights, so whilst there are some smaller less costly (if reloading) options above .277 cal there are a few that don't make it even closely on energy when compared to the .270


Sorry mate. There is NO legal minimum on energy. WYSIWYG. Simply a caliber & weight minimum, nothing else.

There was a minimum case length of 2" a few years ago but that was dropped.
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by ZaineB » 12 Jul 2021, 6:18 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
ZaineB wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
boingk wrote:Only drama with the 6.5 is (I think) it isn't legal for certain game in some states... if you're at all concerned about that.


That's why I recommended 30.06 270, 308, 7x57
Vic minimum requirements below.

Min Deer Cartridges New.JPG



keeping in mind these minimums aren't just on bullet diameter but on energy hence minimum bullet weights, so whilst there are some smaller less costly (if reloading) options above .277 cal there are a few that don't make it even closely on energy when compared to the .270


Sorry mate. There is NO legal minimum on energy. WYSIWYG. Simply a caliber & weight minimum, nothing else.

There was a minimum case length of 2" a few years ago but that was dropped.


cool, but try and tell that to the RSPCA and so forth, plenty of heads have rolled here already. Try taking a sambar with a 357mag from 200m..... etc.. you get the point.

as I already said, bullet weight = energy, so minimum bullet weight is minimum energy. but also lends itself to minimal velocity given cited 270 is the minimum, a 300 blackout is not going to provide the same energy on target despite a bigger bullet diameter and weight.

if a 270 is a minimum, it makes sense that something with less poke isn't going to be considered ethical.
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Jul 2021, 6:40 pm

It is what it is. I'm not saying its right. Just what it is. I don't know who it was, but someone agreed to it.


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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Jul 2021, 7:00 pm

Both 357 and 300 Blackout comply. But I wouldn't use either of any sambar or even a Red. Because 30.30 was a 2" case it was the effective minimum. A step up on those.

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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by ZaineB » 12 Jul 2021, 9:21 pm

nah not even close, People have tried over here and have ended up with pretty fitting fines. sub 2000fps for the most part with 130gn rounds vs 130gn bullet flying out at 3150fps in the 270, I'd argue neither of them comply even slightly. 1042lb for the two slow pokes, 2864 for the standard "minimum" caliber, that's 2.5+* more energy, so I would suggest all day long that pure diameter doesn't come close to compliance, the three factors all remain, diameter, weight, energy (or whatever weight/velocity combo to deliver that energy). The idea behind it is can the Bullet put the animal down ethically in one shot, and I wouldn't be so keen with anything less than say 2500lb energy.
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Jul 2021, 9:43 pm

ZaineB wrote:nah not even close, People have tried over here and have ended up with pretty fitting fines. sub 2000fps for the most part with 130gn rounds vs 130gn bullet flying out at 3150fps in the 270, I'd argue neither of them comply even slightly. 1042lb for the two slow pokes, 2864 for the standard "minimum" caliber, that's 2.5+* more energy, so I would suggest all day long that pure diameter doesn't come close to compliance, the three factors all remain, diameter, weight, energy (or whatever weight/velocity combo to deliver that energy). The idea behind it is can the Bullet put the animal down ethically in one shot, and I wouldn't be so keen with anything less than say 2500lb energy.


Mate, your missing the point. What I posted IS COMLIANCE. Opinions regarding velocity or energy don't matter.
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by ZaineB » 12 Jul 2021, 10:12 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
ZaineB wrote:nah not even close, People have tried over here and have ended up with pretty fitting fines. sub 2000fps for the most part with 130gn rounds vs 130gn bullet flying out at 3150fps in the 270, I'd argue neither of them comply even slightly. 1042lb for the two slow pokes, 2864 for the standard "minimum" caliber, that's 2.5+* more energy, so I would suggest all day long that pure diameter doesn't come close to compliance, the three factors all remain, diameter, weight, energy (or whatever weight/velocity combo to deliver that energy). The idea behind it is can the Bullet put the animal down ethically in one shot, and I wouldn't be so keen with anything less than say 2500lb energy.


Mate, your missing the point. What I posted IS COMLIANCE. Opinions regarding velocity or energy don't matter.



and I would argue that if someone used the aforementioned and it resulted in a wounded animal that got the wrong attention, the argument would be indeed and likely successfully made that the aforementioned calibers do not meet the implied needs as the cited caliber does, as has been the case in many cases already.

that and the joker would likely not get the deer they just spent half a day stalking.
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Jul 2021, 11:17 pm

I want what your smoking.
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by ZaineB » 12 Jul 2021, 11:18 pm

likewise
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Jul 2021, 12:09 am

Oldbloke wrote:It is what it is. I'm not saying its right. Just what it is. I don't know who it was, but someone agreed to it.


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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by boingk » 13 Jul 2021, 12:41 am

By the book you could go hunting deer with a 310 Cadet. Is it a good idea to do that? No. Is it legally permissible? Yes! I believe you will both agree on that.

Zaine, mate, if you can show me where it says a projectile must be a travelling at a certain velocity or have a certain muzzle energy then be my guest.

You know why they have really basic minimums?

Because people have to enforce it. And people, by and large, are bloody clueless. Get a ranger or cop fresh out of training (or even just wilfully ignorant) to go check catridge compliance with velocity and muzzle energy and you'll have a pretty dogs-breakfast style of result. Making it a "minimum of 270 / 243" type scenario makes it much easier to enforce... and to comply with, more importantly.

One thing we don't want more feckery with is regulation on what we can and can't do. I understand your concern about the "what if" scenario... but you know what? Thats on the individual. You can't legislate against everything. If you want to have a mile of projectile drop to deal with even before you give an animal a cruel wound at distance and then leave it to bleed out in the forest then thats your problem. For the experts out there that want to go stalking things to within whisper distance before popping them with a well placed 357 Mag, 32-20 or 310 Cadet shot, leave them to it.

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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by bigrich » 13 Jul 2021, 4:50 am

Oldbloke wrote:I want what your smoking.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I’m gunna suggest a 30 carbine...... :lol: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Kurnal » 13 Jul 2021, 6:05 am

Seems like my question has opened a can of worms. I just wish I understood half of what you are all talking about :)

Based on all this and given my relative inexperience, I am leaning towards keeping this simple and getting .308. Probably a light Tikka, maybe T3X Hunter series. I love the Optika5 3-15 x 44 I have on the .223 so probably just get another one of those for it.

When life opens up again here in Sydney, I'll go and get my hands on one at the shop and see what it feels like.

Of course, with a few weeks of lockdown to go, that might change !

Thanks again all.
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by bigrich » 13 Jul 2021, 7:03 am

Kurnal wrote:Seems like my question has opened a can of worms. I just wish I understood half of what you are all talking about :)

Based on all this and given my relative inexperience, I am leaning towards keeping this simple and getting .308. Probably a light Tikka, maybe T3X Hunter series. I love the Optika5 3-15 x 44 I have on the .223 so probably just get another one of those for it.

When life opens up again here in Sydney, I'll go and get my hands on one at the shop and see what it feels like.

Of course, with a few weeks of lockdown to go, that might change !

Thanks again all.


As you’ve said mate , just go a 308 with a reasonable quality scope, in the 3-9 x40 or 42 would be my advice

Simples :D
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Jul 2021, 8:44 am

Agree, good choice
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by bigrich » 13 Jul 2021, 9:14 am

Oldbloke wrote:Agree, good choice


Are you sure you don’t want to assess how much energy it makes at 300 yards relative to bullet weight and velocity OB :P

I think I’ll get something big enough for the job and just go shoot sh!t :lol:
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Faedy » 13 Jul 2021, 9:26 am

.308 in Tikka hunter t3 with fluted barrel.
It's light enough to carry any distance and a good quality gun
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by boingk » 13 Jul 2021, 4:19 pm

Kurnal wrote:Seems like my question has opened a can of worms. I just wish I understood half of what you are all talking about :)

Based on all this and given my relative inexperience, I am leaning towards keeping this simple and getting .308. Probably a light Tikka, maybe T3X Hunter series. I love the Optika5 3-15 x 44 I have on the .223 so probably just get another one of those for it.

When life opens up again here in Sydney, I'll go and get my hands on one at the shop and see what it feels like.

Of course, with a few weeks of lockdown to go, that might change !

Thanks again all.


Bah, lockdowns. They need to end them. Hope you get your hands on something you like sooner rather than later mate.

My apologies for starting the debate - I alluded to the fact that a 6.5mm rifle won't be legal for all game in all places. Legislation was brought up and the argument began that said legislation implied you not only needed a certain diameter bullet but also a level of power equal to or greater than a 270 Winchester. That isn't the case and I elaborated on why - it boils down to ease of enforcement & compliance.

You certainly can't go wrong with a 308. There's a reason they're still a popular catridge almost 70 years after introduction, and still (in 7.62x54 guise) used by the military in a wide array of roles.

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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Kurnal » 13 Jul 2021, 5:10 pm

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the "debate" and learned some stuff...

It also helped, I was thinking 6.5 Creedmore but would rather have something that won't give me issues, here and in NZ.

So thanks to all.
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Jul 2021, 6:39 pm

Oldbloke wrote:NZ, perhaps longish ranges, perhaps Vic for deer, rules apply.

Magnums tend to kick like a mule. So, be carefulI, suggest you test fire the chambering before you commit to buy.

Otherwise,
These are popular for a reason, ammo availability and cost. Also they do the job.
30.06, 270, 308, 7x57, all OK in Vic.

You carry a lot. Sooo, suggest no more than 8lb with scope.


Boingk, I mentioned it even earlier.

The problem is people don't always read all the posts. They then jump to conclusions or make assumptions.
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by bman940 » 14 Jul 2021, 12:00 am

You are Spot on with your decision, now don't second guess yourself. Keep it simple and go with what you are familiar with. The Tikka T3 lite or otherwise will get the job done for you and the Optika5 3-15 will do everything you need it to. When you get the scope, if you need help dialing in the reticle or picking a zero distance for a 4-5-6 inch target, reach out to me and I'll help you out. Stay safe!
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by poid » 14 Jul 2021, 7:48 am

I wouldn't worry too much mate...you'll start with the 308, like it, but end up buying all the other rifles mentioned here later on anyway :)

I spent way too much debating 6.5 vs 308 vs 270 vs 7mm08 when I first started when any of them would have done the job fine, so it didnt matter which I picked. Went with a 270 Tikka cos that was in stock, and sambar legal, but since have bought a 6.5CM and 7mmRM anyway. They all kill stuff dead.
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by bigpete » 14 Jul 2021, 11:53 am

Oldbloke wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:NZ, perhaps longish ranges, perhaps Vic for deer, rules apply.

Magnums tend to kick like a mule. So, be carefulI, suggest you test fire the chambering before you commit to buy.

Otherwise,
These are popular for a reason, ammo availability and cost. Also they do the job.
30.06, 270, 308, 7x57, all OK in Vic.

You carry a lot. Sooo, suggest no more than 8lb with scope.


Boingk, I mentioned it even earlier.

The problem is people don't always read all the posts. They then jump to conclusions or make assumptions.

Maybe we should be using zaines 410 that kills donkey's and foxes out to 60m with shot loads.....
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by ZaineB » 14 Jul 2021, 3:58 pm

bigpete wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:NZ, perhaps longish ranges, perhaps Vic for deer, rules apply.

Magnums tend to kick like a mule. So, be carefulI, suggest you test fire the chambering before you commit to buy.

Otherwise,
These are popular for a reason, ammo availability and cost. Also they do the job.
30.06, 270, 308, 7x57, all OK in Vic.

You carry a lot. Sooo, suggest no more than 8lb with scope.


Boingk, I mentioned it even earlier.

The problem is people don't always read all the posts. They then jump to conclusions or make assumptions.

Maybe we should be using zaines 410 that kills donkey's and foxes out to 60m with shot loads.....




oh hardee har, lol youre so funny man I wish I could be like you hey....


serious what a gimp,

anyways, yes knocks foxes at that distance, donks no, but does knock donks up close enough, and no I dont mean 10m or less... nice try at being a bully, next time put more thought into it or dont bother.

cheers.
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by animalpest » 18 Jul 2021, 12:32 pm

Zane B you have mentioned that plenty of people have been fined " over here" for presumably using "non compliant" or too low energy on animals.

Can you please provide some examples?
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Re: Got the .223, now for something bigger !

Post by ZaineB » 18 Jul 2021, 1:13 pm

animalpest wrote:Zane B you have mentioned that plenty of people have been fined " over here" for presumably using "non compliant" or too low energy on animals.

Can you please provide some examples?



I'd have to do some digging through my old emails from another forum but yes people have lets just say they haven't been so far from civilization, obviously some criteria needs to be met to get yourself in trouble for such a thing, people need to be able to tie the shooter to the injured animal, but this is no different also, to people using target points on arrows, the principal is the same, injure an animal using unethical gear and you will be tried under animal cruelty laws, plenty of people have been pursued under law for both scenarios mentioned thus far, in as much as even me (someone who does not watch the tv) knows that it has made the news plenty of times.

There were also camel shooters who lost their jobs on a cull some time ago, thus penalized for their cruelty, my uncle was a jackaroo on a station that will stay unnamed and lets say he shot more injured camels over the next week than what they killed in their "aerial cull", and felt so peeved by them he took video and photos and submitted it to the RSPCA. My faith in such things has never been very stout especially since a couple of occasions where I myself witnessed DER/CALM "shooters" operating a Sig Sauer 7,.62 automatic Rifle, and failing to make any kind of convincing groups on target at less than 25m at southern district rifle club (gleneagle). I'll see if I still have the articles in my email.
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