Same old question you have heard before - best overall rifle

[Tubs]

Hey All,

Assume you are going on a long hike solo through scrub and a few hills and need to sustain your diet with whatever you can find. What rifle/calibre would you choose to hunt with?

- My 223 1 in 12 too under-gunned for pigs but easy to lug around (3kg with scope)
- My 308 is too much gun for small game and is heavy (4kg with scope). Tikka Varmint so better suited to distance shooting ie: slow
- Shotgun not enough distance for longer shots
- My 357 lever is quick but not accurate enough for small game IMO (light! only 2.5kg)

Would you stick with the 223 and go for head shots? the 1 in 12 twist is the problem - cant shoot anything over 55gn.

30-30 lever maybe? Good for medium distance, enough clout for everything? Would be faster shooting than the 308. Im a lefty so ambi is good.

I really really really dont need to buy another one do I ?!

[Oldbloke]

223 55gr

or

243 85gr

[bigpete]

Mine

[Tubs]

Mine

Whats yours?

[Oldbloke]

Mine

Whats yours?

Big Pete is a man of few words. Lol

[Tubs]

Mine

Whats yours?

Big Pete is a man of few words. Lol

[ZaineB]

would rock a 270, can carry some 90gn projies loaded up for smaller game and 130 or 150 for bigger game, gun is approx 4kg, and with everything else you would presumably be carrying the gun is probably one of the lighter items.

truth be told there are tonnes of calibers that can do this but I would probably stick between 6mm and 7mm so 257/25-06 right up to maybe not a magnum 7mm so probably a 280 or 7mm-08

[Tubs]

would rock a 270, can carry some 90gn projies loaded up for smaller game and 130 or 150 for bigger game, gun is approx 4kg, and with everything else you would presumably be carrying the gun is probably one of the lighter items.

truth be told there are tonnes of calibers that can do this but I would probably stick between 6mm and 7mm so 257/25-06 right up to maybe not a magnum 7mm so probably a 280 or 7mm-08

would have thought a 243 would be more versatile? Hitting small game with a 270 is still fine red mist?

[ZaineB]

would rock a 270, can carry some 90gn projies loaded up for smaller game and 130 or 150 for bigger game, gun is approx 4kg, and with everything else you would presumably be carrying the gun is probably one of the lighter items.

truth be told there are tonnes of calibers that can do this but I would probably stick between 6mm and 7mm so 257/25-06 right up to maybe not a magnum 7mm so probably a 280 or 7mm-08

would have thought a 243 would be more versatile? Hitting small game with a 270 is still fine red mist?

only if you shoot it in the body, I shave the heads off rabbits no dramas with it. in the same note hitting rabbits and such with 223 is pink mist too if not a headshot, well even then there is some blood and brain pink mist... but yeah, its more a matter of shot placement. I am not familiar with what twist rate you'd need for best versatility out of a 243, or what the heaviest pills are, but I imagine being a wee bit smaller than 257rob you should be able to use it on most stuff but maybe not heart and lung shots on bigger stuff for the sake of having to chase it down afterwards.

[Tubs]

[/quote]

only if you shoot it in the body, I shave the heads off rabbits no dramas with it. in the same note hitting rabbits and such with 223 is pink mist too if not a headshot, well even then there is some blood and brain pink mist... but yeah, its more a matter of shot placement. I am not familiar with what twist rate you'd need for best versatility out of a 243, or what the heaviest pills are, but I imagine being a wee bit smaller than 257rob you should be able to use it on most stuff but maybe not heart and lung shots on bigger stuff for the sake of having to chase it down afterwards.[/quote]

Thanks for the tips, wouldnt I just be better off with the 308?

[ZaineB]

only if you shoot it in the body, I shave the heads off rabbits no dramas with it. in the same note hitting rabbits and such with 223 is pink mist too if not a headshot, well even then there is some blood and brain pink mist... but yeah, its more a matter of shot placement. I am not familiar with what twist rate you'd need for best versatility out of a 243, or what the heaviest pills are, but I imagine being a wee bit smaller than 257rob you should be able to use it on most stuff but maybe not heart and lung shots on bigger stuff for the sake of having to chase it down afterwards.[/quote]

Thanks for the tips, wouldnt I just be better off with the 308?[/quote]
yes and no, I mean same logic would be maybe youre better off with a 300-378 weatherby, lol

for what you have mentioned I think you would do better with a smaller diameter, depending on how far away the small game are going to be that you may be inclined to use the lower weight rounds (faster) on. when you get above 7mm the length vs diameter of the bullet and therefore its accuracy and stability diminishes a lot, with a smaller diameter a sub 100 ish grain bullet is still going to pull decent accuracy and bc for its weight/length whereas a 308 at 90ish grains is like a hockey puck with the side dug out of it, not the best when you are trying to shoot something in the head accurately to eat it.

[Harrynsw]

22LR because I knew a guy who's uncle once killed 100kg pig with one...
And now with the comedy out of the way I would probably just go my 30/30. Accurate enough to blow a rabbits head off at 50m, big enough to take a deer down. All with moderate recoil.

[ZaineB]

good point on recoil, recoil of a 308 is not as mild as some others therefore might affect your shooting at range or smaller targets, Personally don't rate 308 besides the ammo being available widely and the rifles a plenty on second hand market. but same can be said for a lot of calibers/cartridges, it really is a loose ended topic

[Diamond Jim]

I don't own one but for the scenario you give I'd lean toward a .22Mag. Not too much for small game and capable with shot placement for just about anything you'd encounter in a "live off the land " scenario.

[animalpest]

Partly depends on where you are. What animals you would or could be taking to allow you to live off the land.

If it's rabbits and roos then that's a different rifle and calibre need than for goats, pigs or deer.

Shotgun can be used to take small stuff including birds. And is capable at short range on just about anything else.

Living off the land means being able to get sustenance on whatever is available. It may mean a duck or 2 rabbits. Shooting a 100+ kg animal still only means a couple of meals without a fridge.

What are you most likely to see that is a meal?

[bigrich]

I don't own one but for the scenario you give I'd lean toward a .22Mag. Not too much for small game and capable with shot placement for just about anything you'd encounter in a "live off the land " scenario.

The US Air Force survival rifles during WW2 were chambered in 22 hornet. During the Vietnam war they switched to 22 mag I believe. With a well placed shot with a full metal jacket projectile, you could take anything for food. And you could carry a lot of 22mag ammo on you. That’s a true survivalist scenario. The only other thing I would consider as a one gun mountain/pack rifle would be a 243 shooting heavy for caliber projectiles at moderate velocity, with accuracy being the important part.
A 30-30 is good as long as the range isn’t long and it’s got a scope. I can’t use factory sights these days cause of aging eyes. Model 94’s are a nice, light gun that point well
If heavy construction projectiles were available for the 223 I might have included it .
I guess choice all comes down to the scenario. A tikka t3 lite stainless in 243 with a 2-7 scope would be the ultimate mountain/ pack/hiking rifle I reckon.

So tubs, you need to go buy a tikka t3 lite stainless in 243 and load some 90gn partitions or 90 gn nosler bt’s . Hope I’ve helped you to purchase another rifle

[Bello]

Hi

For me, I would have to ask several questions before answering this hypothetical open ended question.
I would have to ask:
what game might I expect to encounter, (this would help with projectile selection as well)
what is the county you are travelling through eg; heavy bush, light bush or open country
there are so many questions, just like the proverbial "what is the best over all calibre to own", always hard to answer unless you can narrow down some parameters.

What calibre are you comfortable shooting successfully/ accurately. (Very important)
For me, I find a well placed shot, with a well constructed, fit for purpose projectile, with in reasonable distances (Under 200 meters for me) in my 223 works well, in the hunting scenarios I find my self. I also think 243 with 87gr V-Max is great all rounder.

I have tried my 243, 270, 308, 300Wm, but all seem to heavy/hard hitting for game up to small deer.

My 2c

[bigpete]

Mine

Whats yours?

Which one ?

Out of mine I'd probably pick my 308 as an all rounder and just head shoot small game. Any centrefire firing soft points will destroy a bunny with a body shot. Only exception I've experienced is shooting them with a 303 and fmj ammo

[in2anity]

I heard a saying once “the shotgunner never goes hungry”. Don’t forget about slugs. https://youtu.be/nNTyCcip-ks

[straightshooter]

In the 50's and 60's the 25/303 was considered the "all round" Australian rifle.
Come the 70's and that concept was displaced, through a combination of hype and actual performance in the field, by the 243. It still has a considerable presence among occasional hunters and doesn't look like it's going away in a hurry.
These days due to the diversity of opinions available on the internet, both sound and unsound, it seems like almost anything goes.
Getting back to the original poster's selection the obvious answer would have to be the 223 especially if he is a handloader.
The statement "the 1 in 12 twist is the problem - cant shoot anything over 55gn." then would contain a substantial misconception if the right projectiles can be found.
Suitable 70 grain projectiles that would work in a 12" twist were commonplace before the present day mania for the highest possible claimed BC along with fancies of successfully taking game at 400, 500 meters or more.

[Tubs]

I don't own one but for the scenario you give I'd lean toward a .22Mag. Not too much for small game and capable with shot placement for just about anything you'd encounter in a "live off the land " scenario.

Ive got 223's loaded with trailboss @ around 1500+ fps, using a 40gn Nosler Varmageddon BTHP pill, as well as full loads using 2206H. Would be similar in terms of dynamics and shootability I reckon.

[Tubs]

I heard a saying once “the shotgunner never goes hungry”. Don’t forget about slugs. https://youtu.be/nNTyCcip-ks

I dont have one, which is a good locally available one that is ambi/lefty?

[Tubs]

In the 50's and 60's the 25/303 was considered the "all round" Australian rifle.
Come the 70's and that concept was displaced, through a combination of hype and actual performance in the field, by the 243. It still has a considerable presence among occasional hunters and doesn't look like it's going away in a hurry.
These days due to the diversity of opinions available on the internet, both sound and unsound, it seems like almost anything goes.
Getting back to the original poster's selection the obvious answer would have to be the 223 especially if he is a handloader.
The statement "the 1 in 12 twist is the problem - cant shoot anything over 55gn." then would contain a substantial misconception if the right projectiles can be found.
Suitable 70 grain projectiles that would work in a 12" twist were commonplace before the present day mania for the highest possible claimed BC along with fancies of successfully taking game at 400, 500 meters or more.

Yep I handload. Ive been told 55 grains is the max, but have never tested the theory. Heavier pills out of the 223 are something Id like to experiment with. Any recommendations? The rifle is is a Tikka lite. Nosler .224 60 gr Partition sounds interesting.

[Tubs]

Partly depends on where you are. What animals you would or could be taking to allow you to live off the land.

If it's rabbits and roos then that's a different rifle and calibre need than for goats, pigs or deer.

Shotgun can be used to take small stuff including birds. And is capable at short range on just about anything else.

Living off the land means being able to get sustenance on whatever is available. It may mean a duck or 2 rabbits. Shooting a 100+ kg animal still only means a couple of meals without a fridge.

What are you most likely to see that is a meal?

Assume all are fair game. Part of the challenge is can only take 1 gun.

[Tubs]

Mine

Whats yours?

Which one ?

Out of mine I'd probably pick my 308 as an all rounder and just head shoot small game. Any centrefire firing soft points will destroy a bunny with a body shot. Only exception I've experienced is shooting them with a 303 and fmj ammo

Im not recoil sensitive and love my 308 - so accurate its just too darn heavy @ more than 4.2kg to lug around everywhere. Maybe I just need to toughen up

[Tubs]

I don't own one but for the scenario you give I'd lean toward a .22Mag. Not too much for small game and capable with shot placement for just about anything you'd encounter in a "live off the land " scenario.

The US Air Force survival rifles during WW2 were chambered in 22 hornet. During the Vietnam war they switched to 22 mag I believe. With a well placed shot with a full metal jacket projectile, you could take anything for food. And you could carry a lot of 22mag ammo on you. That’s a true survivalist scenario. The only other thing I would consider as a one gun mountain/pack rifle would be a 243 shooting heavy for caliber projectiles at moderate velocity, with accuracy being the important part.
A 30-30 is good as long as the range isn’t long and it’s got a scope. I can’t use factory sights these days cause of aging eyes. Model 94’s are a nice, light gun that point well
If heavy construction projectiles were available for the 223 I might have included it .
I guess choice all comes down to the scenario. A tikka t3 lite stainless in 243 with a 2-7 scope would be the ultimate mountain/ pack/hiking rifle I reckon.

So tubs, you need to go buy a tikka t3 lite stainless in 243 and load some 90gn partitions or 90 gn nosler bt’s . Hope I’ve helped you to purchase another rifle

Hahah my wife sends her regards. When I find a second hand one in left handed in 2026 we can celebrate In all seriousness it sounds like a good idea.

[Tubs]

22LR because I knew a guy who's uncle once killed 100kg pig with one...
And now with the comedy out of the way I would probably just go my 30/30. Accurate enough to blow a rabbits head off at 50m, big enough to take a deer down. All with moderate recoil.

This is what I was thinking - after having accuracy issues with a marlin 357 due to lots of crap hanging off the barrel Id probably be more interested in a mag loaded 30-30 lever. Is this what you shoot? Thanks

[Tubs]

The other option I thought of was replacing the 1 in 12 barrel with a 1 in 8/9 if 223 was a viable option. I have no idea how much this is going to cost though.

[straightshooter]

Yep I handload. Ive been told 55 grains is the max, but have never tested the theory. Heavier pills out of the 223 are something Id like to experiment with. Any recommendations? The rifle is is a Tikka lite. Nosler .224 60 gr Partition sounds interesting.

I wouldn't hesitate to try the Nosler 60 grain projectiles and Speer 70 grain semi spitzers if you can find them.

[in2anity]

+1 to rebarrel your 223. The medium hunter profile isn't too heavy, especially if you chop it to 20-22", and does well at the range for field positional.

$400 + smith costs fitting/headspacing for something that'll get you to 500m easy. I use a 1:9" with the 69gr SMK and it shoots 300m V's all day long (if I'm doing my part). Indeed a 1:8" can stabilize an 80gr fullbore pill, but that just makes 500m+ windy shooting easier. The heavy pills are specialized - not appropriate for normal hunting distances. Take what you can get basically.