Ruptured/Split cases in new rifle

[Medb]

Took my new Lithgow la102 .223 to the range to sight in, and after firing around 5 rounds when I next pulled the trigger I had a bunch of smoke coming out the back of action and chamber. Upon extracting the case and inspecting it has a big split in it.

Now the ammo is new factory ammo of which I purchased mid last year, which has been appropriately stored by me since then. It is just 55 grain Remington FMJ bulk ammo. I have fired maybe 1-200 rounds of this stuff through a different rifle and had no such issues so far, and I still have another 1500~ or so rounds of it left.

Now after the first incident I did continue to use it after inspecting the bore and cleaning the chamber, however during the course of the day I had the same issue occur two more times, although there was not as much smoke released the second and third times. So I had this failure occur 3 times out of the 70 rounds I shot during the day.

Unfortunately I had removed the ammo from it's factory boxes and placed it in a larger container, so I do not know if all the rounds came out of the same box or anything as they were all mixed up.

Now this is not a problem that I've experienced before with factory ammo, so I would love if anyone had any insight as to what the problem might be. I initially thought it was just a bad batch of ammo given it is bulk cheap stuff, but after googling for similar failures I came across this post which I thought looked somewhat similar to my issue, and like mine the splits are all in the same place. They mention that it was due to the chamber being improperly reamed which allowed the brass to expand in that area and split, and I was wondering if that was possibly the cause of my issues?

https://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/ ... r-explodes

What would you guys recommend to do next to diagnose this issue? Obviously I can try other ammo and see if the rifle experiences similar issues, and I can also try this ammo more in my other .223 and see if it has any issues with it, but beyond that should I be contacting the ammunition manufacturer or Lithgow or anyone else? Or is a few split cases not something to worry about?

split.jpg (723.31 KiB) Viewed 3730 times

[Harrynsw]

I reckon it's just because it's cheap ammo. Best thing to do would be as you suggested. Go get a box of name brand ammo and see if it does the same thing.

[Diamond Jim]

It's Remington ammo - they have a pretty solid pedigree but I don't know who manufactures their ammo. I'm sure they would have chosen a reliable source. I'd be asking a gunsmith to inspect and maybe take a cast of the chamber.

[Oldbloke]

It's Remington ammo - they have a pretty solid pedigree but I don't know who manufactures their ammo. I'm sure they would have chosen a reliable source. I'd be asking a gunsmith to inspect and maybe take a cast of the chamber.

Yep

[straightshooter]

It's no comfort to the original poster but the failure is most likely due to an unfavourable build up of tolerances in this particular instance.
For example his chamber may be at or near the maximum tolerance for base diameter, the brass may be at or near minimum diameter and at the same time the brass may be at it's upper limit of hardness in the failure area and relatively soft in the shoulder area.
The likelihood of this failure would be exacerbated if there were some residual lubricant in the chamber or on the case or both when fired with the above combination of tolerance buildup.
The result is that the case, under the high pressure and movement experienced when fired, cannot expand sufficiently without cracking whereas if there was closer support from the chamber that would not be the case.
If one understands the above then it should be clear that chances are there is no single culprit.
Sadly, it does seem to me that this current crop of Lithgow rifles seem to have been blamed for various 'quality' issues and appear to be becoming the "Leyland Marina's" of the shooting world.

[bladeracer]

Perhaps your rifle missed the recall?
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10101#p166567

Took my new Lithgow la102 .223 to the range to sight in, and after firing around 5 rounds when I next pulled the trigger I had a bunch of smoke coming out the back of action and chamber. Upon extracting the case and inspecting it has a big split in it.

Now the ammo is new factory ammo of which I purchased mid last year, which has been appropriately stored by me since then. It is just 55 grain Remington FMJ bulk ammo. I have fired maybe 1-200 rounds of this stuff through a different rifle and had no such issues so far, and I still have another 1500~ or so rounds of it left.

Now after the first incident I did continue to use it after inspecting the bore and cleaning the chamber, however during the course of the day I had the same issue occur two more times, although there was not as much smoke released the second and third times. So I had this failure occur 3 times out of the 70 rounds I shot during the day.

Unfortunately I had removed the ammo from it's factory boxes and placed it in a larger container, so I do not know if all the rounds came out of the same box or anything as they were all mixed up.

Now this is not a problem that I've experienced before with factory ammo, so I would love if anyone had any insight as to what the problem might be. I initially thought it was just a bad batch of ammo given it is bulk cheap stuff, but after googling for similar failures I came across this post which I thought looked somewhat similar to my issue, and like mine the splits are all in the same place. They mention that it was due to the chamber being improperly reamed which allowed the brass to expand in that area and split, and I was wondering if that was possibly the cause of my issues?

https://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/ ... r-explodes

What would you guys recommend to do next to diagnose this issue? Obviously I can try other ammo and see if the rifle experiences similar issues, and I can also try this ammo more in my other .223 and see if it has any issues with it, but beyond that should I be contacting the ammunition manufacturer or Lithgow or anyone else? Or is a few split cases not something to worry about?

split.jpg

[animalpest]

If that ammo shoots fine in another rifle then it's not the ammo.

I certainly wouldn't be using the Lithgow and would be returning it to get fixed.

[Veetwin]

*

[Bello]

Hi Mate
I have two 223 rifles and have never had that happen.
Email Lithgow, tell them what has happened just as you did in your post here and include the pics.

Keep us informed of what happens

[MontyShooter]

I'd defo contact Lithgow.
I've run dozens of different brand ammo through my la102 223 with no issues. Although I don't run cheap junk through it.

[LawrenceA]

Didn't happen to measure the cases did you?
Where they are splitting is just in front of the web so the thickest part of the case wall.
If the chamber was too big then you would expect a visible step up from Head to where the split is but I cannot see that.
Based on this it would seem to me that perhaps the brass in that part of the shell is too brittle.

[Blr243]

Never seen brass split there like that before in my life

[bladeracer]

As others have said already, try some new ammo, try these in another rifle, measure the brass including the ones that didn't fail, inspect the chamber.

[Oldbloke]

Hi Mate
I have two 223 rifles and have never had that happen.
Email Lithgow, tell them what has happened just as you did in your post here and include the pics.

Keep us informed of what happens

This ^^^^^ and the rifle serial number

[Bills Shed]

I have split cases like that previously. It was Norinco .223, yellow cardboard box and I had a case of it. Dam that stuff was hard…and hot. Pretty much buggered a barrel with that stuff.
I agree that there does not seem to be an obvious “step” at the web indicating a larger chamber. Measure fired and unfired and compare to other brands.
We seem to be very quick to blame the rifle. I am betting brass.

Bill

[Medb]

Thanks for the various suggestions and ideas.

I have sent a message off to lithgow with all the info, so I will see what they say. Otherwise my preliminary plan is to put some better quality ADI or OSA rounds through it next week and see if the same issue occurs, and stop at the first sign of any trouble.

My only other thought was that the cases on those rounds may have possibly been slightly dented or damaged due to being used for some earlier testing when I was having feeding issues with a certain magazine. The rifle has been installed into a MDT ESS chassis, and one of my magazines was not feeding correctly and I was trying to diagnose it. See the picture below as an example.

feed.jpg (716.63 KiB) Viewed 3604 times

However it's not like it's a semi auto where the rounds would be subject to significant force, I was being quite gentle with the action and once they became stuck like that I did not try to forcefully jam them in any further. But those same 5 rounds that I was using for testing which went through the action a bunch of times and sometimes became stuck like that were definitely included in the batch of rounds I was firing.

[Blr243]

I might be jumping the gun but now I see that pic I think mystery solved

[Wm.Traynor]

I was being quite gentle with the action and once they became stuck like that I did not try to forcefully jam them in any further. But those same 5 rounds that I was using for testing which went through the action a bunch of times and sometimes became stuck like that were definitely included in the batch of rounds I was firing.

In support of that, there are no serious scratches on the ruptured cases above,

[bigrich]

the only rifle ammo i've ever seen split is 17hmr and it's not uncommon with that . maybe neck splits on old 303 brass that's bin reloaded a dozen times is the only other time i've seen split cases in a centre fire .i think you have a serious chamber issue and would not fire the rifle at all . there may be something very wrong and you are risking serious injury if you fire this rifle in my opinion , at the very least have it inspected by a gun smith and go from there .

[Bills Shed]

There is some strange markings / chamber indentation marks / thinning/ whatever at the base of the cracks or is it just the picture?
I am still betting brass. Keep us informed.

Bill

[JohnV]

It's no comfort to the original poster but the failure is most likely due to an unfavourable build up of tolerances in this particular instance.
For example his chamber may be at or near the maximum tolerance for base diameter, the brass may be at or near minimum diameter and at the same time the brass may be at it's upper limit of hardness in the failure area and relatively soft in the shoulder area.
The likelihood of this failure would be exacerbated if there were some residual lubricant in the chamber or on the case or both when fired with the above combination of tolerance buildup.
The result is that the case, under the high pressure and movement experienced when fired, cannot expand sufficiently without cracking whereas if there was closer support from the chamber that would not be the case.
If one understands the above then it should be clear that chances are there is no single culprit.
Sadly, it does seem to me that this current crop of Lithgow rifles seem to have been blamed for various 'quality' issues and appear to be becoming the "Leyland Marina's" of the shooting world.

Pretty much what I was going to say . Because the three cracks are quite consistent I agree that very hard small diameter brass in an oversize chamber or a chamber cut with new reamer or a slightly oval chamber and maybe some excess head clearance . Definitely needs to go back to Lithgow with the fired cases . A bit of a dent from chambering issue would not cause a split case .
I have been critical of Lithgow but people argued me down .

[bladeracer]

It's no comfort to the original poster but the failure is most likely due to an unfavourable build up of tolerances in this particular instance.
For example his chamber may be at or near the maximum tolerance for base diameter, the brass may be at or near minimum diameter and at the same time the brass may be at it's upper limit of hardness in the failure area and relatively soft in the shoulder area.
The likelihood of this failure would be exacerbated if there were some residual lubricant in the chamber or on the case or both when fired with the above combination of tolerance buildup.
The result is that the case, under the high pressure and movement experienced when fired, cannot expand sufficiently without cracking whereas if there was closer support from the chamber that would not be the case.
If one understands the above then it should be clear that chances are there is no single culprit.
Sadly, it does seem to me that this current crop of Lithgow rifles seem to have been blamed for various 'quality' issues and appear to be becoming the "Leyland Marina's" of the shooting world.

Pretty much what I was going to say . Because the three cracks are quite consistent I agree that very hard small diameter brass in an oversize chamber or a chamber cut with new reamer or a slightly oval chamber and maybe some excess head clearance . Definitely needs to go back to Lithgow with the fired cases . A bit of a dent from chambering issue would not cause a split case .
I have been critical of Lithgow but people argued me down .

I would try new ammo before returning the rifle for a defect that may not exist.

[JohnV]

When any rifle has suffered gas leakage it needs to be checked out . The extractor could be bent , firing pin chipped or bent .
The chamber could be bad and if you keep firing it and later something breaks they may no warranty it .

[Oldbloke]

The cases ruptured. And you do not know why. No way would I fire it until it's been check out. Just might be a lot worse next time you pull the trigger.

[Oldbloke]

The cases ruptured. And you do not know why. No way would I fire it until it's been check out. Just might be a lot worse next time you pull the trigger.

Oh and don't send all the ruptured cases back with the rifle. Keep 2 and send 1. It might get "lost."

[bigrich]

The cases ruptured. And you do not know why. No way would I fire it until it's been check out. Just might be a lot worse next time you pull the trigger.

+1 safety first. Don’t shoot it again, get it checked out

[Oldbloke]

The cases ruptured. And you do not know why. No way would I fire it until it's been check out. Just might be a lot worse next time you pull the trigger.

+1 safety first. Don’t shoot it again, get it checked out

Oooh, I love you.

[JohnV]

If the brass was very hard when formed into cases it can get fine fracture's in the metal . Then if the cases sit around a long time loaded or unloaded they can also suffer some stress corrosion which will be faster and worse in the fractured area .
If they were cleaned or exposed to alkaline substances like Ammonia it accelerates stress corrosion . Too much Zinc in the brass makes things worse .
Add to that the possibility of a max diameter chamber which by and of itself is not a fault . Look at the unfired ammo under magnification and see if you can see any fine cracks or marks . Sometimes you can and sometimes you can't .

[bigrich]

The cases ruptured. And you do not know why. No way would I fire it until it's been check out. Just might be a lot worse next time you pull the trigger.

+1 safety first. Don’t shoot it again, get it checked out

Oooh, I love you.

geez OB , i didn't know you cared so much .......

[ZaineB]

If that ammo shoots fine in another rifle then it's not the ammo.

I certainly wouldn't be using the Lithgow and would be returning it to get fixed.

warranty immediately, take said ammo in with as well if need be, but if that ammo shoots fine elsewhere then it is simply the gun despite what people love them, all gun makes have Friday jobs, all gun makers have lemons. take it back and have it sorted. probably a chamber issue of some description most likely oversized somewhere.

dont faff around trying to fix it at home, you have a warranty, use it.