Ruptured/Split cases in new rifle

[Medb]

I spoke to Lithgow and they weren't too worried about it. They said "I would only start to be mildy concerned if it does it on another brand of ammuntion."

Said it could easily be poor annealing on the brass in that batch of ammo since the splits are all identical. They said if there was an issue with the chamber they would expect to see splits at the opposite end (shoulder or case mouth.)

[JohnV]

I spoke to Lithgow and they weren't too worried about it. They said "I would only start to be mildy concerned if it does it on another brand of ammuntion."

Said it could easily be poor annealing on the brass in that batch of ammo since the splits are all identical. They said if there was an issue with the chamber they would expect to see splits at the opposite end (shoulder or case mouth.)

So Lithgow not interested in inspecting it . They are quiet willing to risk the integrity of the gun based on a guess .
I suspected that the cases are bad but the gun should still be inspected to see if the gas rupture harmed anything . That gels well with the way I was treated trying to talk about their designs when they first started .
You will never see a Lithgow in my safe .

[SCJ429]

The advice seems sensible to me. Cases in factory ammo splits all the time due to poor annealing. I am betting that you won't have this problem with some quality brass like Lapua.

[Oldbloke]

I spoke to Lithgow and they weren't too worried about it. They said "I would only start to be mildy concerned if it does it on another brand of ammuntion."

Said it could easily be poor annealing on the brass in that batch of ammo since the splits are all identical. They said if there was an issue with the chamber they would expect to see splits at the opposite end (shoulder or case mouth.)

So Lithgow not interested in inspecting it . They are quiet willing to risk the integrity of the gun based on a guess .
I suspected that the cases are bad but the gun should still be inspected to see if the gas rupture harmed anything . That gels well with the way I was treated trying to talk about their designs when they first started .
You will never see a Lithgow in my safe .

I agree with Johnv. If for no aother reason it should be inspected for damage.

And I'm surprised that some think it's not unusual for factory ammo to split. If split cases are not very rare it tells me the industry doesn't give a fuk about our safety.

The attitude of Lithgow worries me.

[bigrich]

I’ve really only seen cases split around the neck. Lithgow’s attitude is not what I would have expected. If it were mine, I would be getting the rifle checked by a smith regardless of what Lithgow says .

[ZaineB]

The advice seems sensible to me. Cases in factory ammo splits all the time due to poor annealing. I am betting that you won't have this problem with some quality brass like Lapua.

I've literally never had a case split ever.

[ZaineB]

I spoke to Lithgow and they weren't too worried about it. They said "I would only start to be mildy concerned if it does it on another brand of ammuntion."

Said it could easily be poor annealing on the brass in that batch of ammo since the splits are all identical. They said if there was an issue with the chamber they would expect to see splits at the opposite end (shoulder or case mouth.)

So Lithgow not interested in inspecting it . They are quiet willing to risk the integrity of the gun based on a guess .
I suspected that the cases are bad but the gun should still be inspected to see if the gas rupture harmed anything . That gels well with the way I was treated trying to talk about their designs when they first started .
You will never see a Lithgow in my safe .

buddy of mine had one in 308 and it was a deathtrap, he noticed gas hitting him in the face and thought he was just being a bit precious, next one blasted red hot gasses into his face, needless to say he didn't fire it again, gunsmith says he's lucky that's all that happened, Likewise I will never own one.

[Medb]

Due to lockdowns etc... I won't be able to go shooting with it this week, or possibly longer anyway. In the meantime I'll see about getting a local smith or someone with a lot more knowledge and tools than me to give it a look over.

[bladeracer]

The advice seems sensible to me. Cases in factory ammo splits all the time due to poor annealing. I am betting that you won't have this problem with some quality brass like Lapua.

I've literally never had a case split ever.

I can only recall one just now, one of my 6.5x58's formed from .30-06 brass popped, no damage done though.

[bigrich]

Due to lockdowns etc... I won't be able to go shooting with it this week, or possibly longer anyway. In the meantime I'll see about getting a local smith or someone with a lot more knowledge and tools than me to give it a look over.

Better safe than sorry. If a smith finds something wrong you have definite information to come back to Lithgow with. If there’s nothing wrong with the rifle and it is the brass, no harm done. It is very unusual though with the brass

[Downunder]

Personally, firstly I’d check the specs of the fired brass (both failed and unfailed), with the ratio of failures v rounds fired I’d expect to see more failures if it was a out of spec chamber, especially as it’s the same brand cartridges.

Carefully dissect a few case‘s for internal inspection looking for abnormalities in wall thickness etc

I wouldn’t fire the rifle until the issues been identified, live fire testing isn’t a good idea when there’s a Un diagnosed problem with a potential risk of injury.

[SCJ429]

The advice seems sensible to me. Cases in factory ammo splits all the time due to poor annealing. I am betting that you won't have this problem with some quality brass like Lapua.

I've literally never had a case split ever.

Well this might be a news flash for you. Much of the brass you buy is poorly annealed. You might not notice splits in your brass if you don't reload or you don't shoot a lot. You can prevent splits by using quality brass and annealing regularly.
You will experience more split cases if you over work your brass during reloading and have generous tolerances in your chamber.
I managed to split some Lapua 223 brass after 22 reloads, they had been annealed about four times

[disco stu]

But aren't you only annealing the mouth of the case anyway? Or do people anneal the whole case

[Oldbloke]

But aren't you only annealing the mouth of the case anyway? Or do people anneal the whole case

Correct. Shoulder and neck. Reloaders don't normally anneal more than a few mm below the shoulder.

This failure was NEW ammo. I think disassembling a few rounds for inspection is very sensible. But still think the rifle should be checked.
Rifles are built with a very significant safety margin, but best be sure IMO.


"It is just 55 grain Remington FMJ bulk ammo. I have fired maybe 1-200 rounds of this stuff through a different rifle and had no such issues so far, and I still have another 1500~ or so rounds of it left."


Have you contacted Remington?

[bladeracer]

Split necks are common and not worth mentioning. Splits nearer the case head are always unusual and need to be investigated as they allow gas blow-by. Case head separation can be common in some rifles and chamberings, but longitudinal splits in the body are more unusual.

I'm sure it's an issue with the brass, not the rifle, which can be tested by firing some in other rifles.

I loaded some .30-06 compressed loads and found the cartridges had lengthened measurably afterwards. It wasn't a problem but if somebody were loading close to the lands with hot loads it could be enough to jam the bullet and spike the pressures. It's not a bad idea to crimp highly-compressed loads to minimize this expansion.

The advice seems sensible to me. Cases in factory ammo splits all the time due to poor annealing. I am betting that you won't have this problem with some quality brass like Lapua.

I've literally never had a case split ever.

Well this might be a news flash for you. Much of the brass you buy is poorly annealed. You might not notice splits in your brass if you don't reload or you don't shoot a lot. You can prevent splits by using quality brass and annealing regularly.
You will experience more split cases if you over work your brass during reloading and have generous tolerances in your chamber.
I managed to split some Lapua 223 brass after 22 reloads, they had been annealed about four times

[Oldbloke]

In the linked story it was an out of round chamber. Mmmmm look same to me. Very suspicious.

Screenshot_20210803-133054_DuckDuckGo.jpg (519.69 KiB) Viewed 3775 times

Screenshot_20210803-133218_DuckDuckGo.jpg (691.67 KiB) Viewed 3775 times

[ZaineB]

The advice seems sensible to me. Cases in factory ammo splits all the time due to poor annealing. I am betting that you won't have this problem with some quality brass like Lapua.

I've literally never had a case split ever.

Well this might be a news flash for you. Much of the brass you buy is poorly annealed. You might not notice splits in your brass if you don't reload or you don't shoot a lot. You can prevent splits by using quality brass and annealing regularly.
You will experience more split cases if you over work your brass during reloading and have generous tolerances in your chamber.
I managed to split some Lapua 223 brass after 22 reloads, they had been annealed about four times

I shoot one hell of a lot and have reloaded since day 1 because my whole family does and the equipment has been there since day one.

[ZaineB]

In the linked story it was an out of round chamber. Mmmmm look same to me. Very suspicious.

Screenshot_20210803-133054_DuckDuckGo.jpg

Screenshot_20210803-133218_DuckDuckGo.jpg

yeah this is what I would suggest, I honestly dont know why anyone is suggesting anything other than a warranty on the gun, its new, get it fixed.

[bigrich]

In the linked story it was an out of round chamber. Mmmmm look same to me. Very suspicious.

Screenshot_20210803-133054_DuckDuckGo.jpg

Screenshot_20210803-133218_DuckDuckGo.jpg

yeah this is what I would suggest, I honestly dont know why anyone is suggesting anything other than a warranty on the gun, its new, get it fixed.

+1

[grumpy308]

I've been reloading for 50 years and have used all brands of brass in all types of rifles and have never had failures such as this. I have used one hell of a lot of Remington brass in that time and have always found it to be very durable. The failure shown is unusual as far as case cracking goes in being in that direction and near the base of the case. It clearly shows the gas escape path at the forward edge of the solid head just rearward of where the case is thin enough to normally expand out and seal the chamber. The cases should be measured for roundness in that area to see if there is a deformity in the chamber . I can't really see how a chamber can be cut out of round enough to cause that sort of issue ( they can certainly be cut oversize but will usually still be fairly round) . It could be possible to have a bad out of round chamber if the rifling and chamber were done in a hammer forging operation and and the process screwed up at the chamber end. I would dismantle several of the rounds and section the cases to check for imperfections on the inside of them.A borescope could also be used to look inside of them. If you find anything that could create a weakness in that area to cause such a failure on firing you can put it down to faulty brass and email the manufacturer with photos and batch number details. As it is a new rifle if brass is found not to be the issue then it should become a warranty problem. A gunsmith could visibly check the chamber or do a cast to see if anything is wrong but just be careful as to what is done and by whom if it does end up on Lithgows shoulders. The biggest problem I can see is if it ends up being a brass problem Lithgow won't want to know about it. I am willing to bet that due to the very visible gas escape signs on the failed cases your chamber will have some gas cutting and etching damage already done. It could end up a bun fight as to who is responsible and who pays. Good luck.Regards Malcolm.

[Oldbloke]

" I can't really see how a chamber can be cut out of round enough to cause that sort of issue"

Been wondering about that myself.

[straightshooter]

Of all the possible chamber machining defects the prize for the least likely would have to an "out of round" chamber.
For starters "out of round" can only have one meaning and that meaning is 'not round'.
So then to satisfy that description the chamber must be ovoid in cross section or a multi focal ellipse in cross section.
The way I see it, one would have to be a highly skilled machinist and have the facility to be able to do some pretty fancy machining to successfully produce a chamber fitting that description.

[Oldbloke]

As mentioned above, measuring the brass would seem the key.

[Veetwin]

Of all the possible chamber machining defects the prize for the least likely would have to an "out of round" chamber.
For starters "out of round" can only have one meaning and that meaning is 'not round'.
So then to satisfy that description the chamber must be ovoid in cross section or a multi focal ellipse in cross section.
The way I see it, one would have to be a highly skilled machinist and have the facility to be able to do some pretty fancy machining to successfully produce a chamber fitting that description.

Very astute observation.

[bigrich]

Of all the possible chamber machining defects the prize for the least likely would have to an "out of round" chamber.
For starters "out of round" can only have one meaning and that meaning is 'not round'.
So then to satisfy that description the chamber must be ovoid in cross section or a multi focal ellipse in cross section.
The way I see it, one would have to be a highly skilled machinist and have the facility to be able to do some pretty fancy machining to successfully produce a chamber fitting that description.

Unless a bearing in a machine used in the process is worn , or a stuffed chamber cutting tool that no one noticed. I had a rifle rebarreled by a well known barrel maker/ gun smith. It wasn’t right. I had it checked by another smith and the chamber had “fluting “, a surface inside the chamber that slightly resembled corrugated iron roof! He put the cause down to a worn cutter that “chattered “ when the chamber was bored.Also the fact the bolt closed easy on a “no go” gauge was another defect. Needless to say I don’t use this smith anymore.

Nobody or no company is exempt from dodgy stuff getting through QC . Even sako has had some issues.
So I reckon faulty machines or tooling could produce such a defect as a out of round chamber

[Gamerancher]

If the chamber is out of round, a simple check would be to rotate a fired case 180 degrees from the position it was fired in and chamber it. If it is tight to close the bolt on and shows a shiny mark down the side that is split, you may have found your problem.

[bigrich]

If the chamber is out of round, a simple check would be to rotate a fired case 180 degrees from the position it was fired in and chamber it. If it is tight to close the bolt on and shows a shiny mark down the side that is split, you may have found your problem.

That’s what alerted me to the problem with my rifle, neck sized brass wouldn’t feed because of a stuffed up chamber as you say GR . I would have to rotate the brass to find the spot where it would feed .

[JohnV]

Due to lockdowns etc... I won't be able to go shooting with it this week, or possibly longer anyway. In the meantime I'll see about getting a local smith or someone with a lot more knowledge and tools than me to give it a look over.

I think that's what Lithgow want you to do . Take it too a Smith first and he will tell Lithgow if it's a warranty job . Hopefully Lithgow will pay the Smith . At least you will get it checked for safety and peace of mind .

[deye243]

Seeing as lithgow hammer forges their barrels one wonders to cut costs whether they are using a chamber mandrel and hammer forging their Chambers just a thought

[JohnV]

Hammer forging can shape the chamber at the same time but they can also just do the rifled blank and cut the chamber later with a reamer .
Don't know what Lithgow do . Hammer forging can go wrong also . If you look inside the chamber with magnification if it's cut with a reamer some circular reamer marks should show up . If not and it looks all smooth it's most likely hammer forged chamber . Or they have lapped the chamber . They are supposed to have a " Semi Match Chamber " so they should not be a max SAAMI spec . One would think .