Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by northdude » 26 Sep 2021, 4:55 pm

bladeracer wrote:
northdude wrote:my 6.5 06 for me


What bullet weight and velocity are you making with this?
Just curious how far short the 6.5x58mm is.

I was getting 3127fps with 120gr gold dots but I can get them here anymore so its back to the drawing board. Im still experimenting with this as Ive justhad it built
22 hornets and most things 6.5
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigrich » 26 Sep 2021, 5:02 pm

bigpete wrote:Nah,it would be something you'd make for a specific purpose really


that's what's holding me back from some projects . i don't want anything too specialised .

check ballistics for 6x45 though , 70gn 3000fps ,80gn 2900fps, 90gn 2800fps . this is for 223 cases necked up to 6mm . figures from wiki . researching yank websites , a lot of these figures are attainable with 26-28 gn of benchmark (2?) powder or 2206h . it has definite possibilities . this caliber would fit the criteria of this topic :thumbsup:
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bladeracer » 26 Sep 2021, 5:49 pm

northdude wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
northdude wrote:my 6.5 06 for me


What bullet weight and velocity are you making with this?
Just curious how far short the 6.5x58mm is.

I was getting 3127fps with 120gr gold dots but I can get them here anymore so its back to the drawing board. Im still experimenting with this as Ive justhad it built


Okay, that's way hotter than I would ever run my Mausers :-)

I haven't measured case volume in the 6.5x58mm, but the 6.5x57mm is supposed to be 57-59gn H2O, compared to the 6.5mm Creedmoor at 52.5gn H2O. The 6.5-06 is around 65.5gn H2O so I was expecting much higher velocity.

Federal does the 95gn VMax in 6.5mm Creedmoor at 3300fps.
https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle/varmint-and-predator/varmint-and-predator/11-V65CRDVM95.html
I suppose I should see what the 6.5x58mm might be capable of with a 95gn bullet.
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigpete » 26 Sep 2021, 5:52 pm

bigrich wrote:
bigpete wrote:Nah,it would be something you'd make for a specific purpose really


that's what's holding me back from some projects . i don't want anything too specialised .

check ballistics for 6x45 though , 70gn 3000fps ,80gn 2900fps, 90gn 2800fps . this is for 223 cases necked up to 6mm . figures from wiki . researching yank websites , a lot of these figures are attainable with 26-28 gn of benchmark (2?) powder or 2206h . it has definite possibilities . this caliber would fit the criteria of this topic :thumbsup:


I'm meaning more that it would be suitable if you wanted a nice light rifle for hunting small to medium game based on a small case.
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigrich » 26 Sep 2021, 6:06 pm

bigpete wrote:
bigrich wrote:
bigpete wrote:Nah,it would be something you'd make for a specific purpose really


that's what's holding me back from some projects . i don't want anything too specialised .

check ballistics for 6x45 though , 70gn 3000fps ,80gn 2900fps, 90gn 2800fps . this is for 223 cases necked up to 6mm . figures from wiki . researching yank websites , a lot of these figures are attainable with 26-28 gn of benchmark (2?) powder or 2206h . it has definite possibilities . this caliber would fit the criteria of this topic :thumbsup:


I'm meaning more that it would be suitable if you wanted a nice light rifle for hunting small to medium game based on a small case.


supposedly quite a few use the 6x45 for deer and pigs at moderate ranges . mag length is the catch .yeah pete , in a small rifle platform it would be a great carry rifle if you could make it work in a brno fox it would be a lightweight gun that packs a punch . sako L461 would be my pick . remington 7 would be good too :thumbsup:
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by on_one_wheel » 26 Sep 2021, 6:24 pm

bladeracer wrote:Foxes are small game. I would class cats as small game also, but they can be significantly more robust than foxes. Dogs, goats, pigs, roos, and small deer are medium game.


on_one_wheel wrote:We probably should have defined "medium game" first.
Imo, rats, rabbits and birds = small
Cats, foxes, dogs = medium
Fallow, roos, goats, pigs = large ( roos blur the line between medium and large because their heads are soo light and are a head shot only species)
Red deer, buffalo, donkeys, horses, camels = big

Keeping that in mind

I'm almost on the fence between the .243 and .223 but mainly because my .243 likes 100g projectiles and I'm running heavy jacket Gameking, it typically pencils small and lightly built medium game.

The .223 with its 55g delivers 100% of its energy right where I want it.

By a nose I'll pick the .223 and save the .243 for more heavily built critters... at least until I find a 100g ballistic tip projectile with a light jacket.


Righto
I'll change my vote to the .243 :thumbsup:
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by deye243 » 26 Sep 2021, 6:25 pm

After having a 6x45 for 9000 rounds trust me there is a reason I did not do another one
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by northdude » 26 Sep 2021, 7:40 pm

bladeracer wrote:
northdude wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
northdude wrote:my 6.5 06 for me


What bullet weight and velocity are you making with this?
Just curious how far short the 6.5x58mm is.

I was getting 3127fps with 120gr gold dots but I can get them here anymore so its back to the drawing board. Im still experimenting with this as Ive justhad it built


Okay, that's way hotter than I would ever run my Mausers :-)

I haven't measured case volume in the 6.5x58mm, but the 6.5x57mm is supposed to be 57-59gn H2O, compared to the 6.5mm Creedmoor at 52.5gn H2O. The 6.5-06 is around 65.5gn H2O so I was expecting much higher velocity.

Federal does the 95gn VMax in 6.5mm Creedmoor at 3300fps.
https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle/varmint-and-predator/varmint-and-predator/11-V65CRDVM95.html
I suppose I should see what the 6.5x58mm might be capable of with a 95gn bullet.

yea like I say this is still a new caliber to me I wasn't getting pressure signs with that load but ran out of pills. I'm thinking I might try around the 130gr mark. The problem with it is its not a common caliber so finding someone with actual real life experience is a bit hard to gain some load info off. Actually i should ask on here..
22 hornets and most things 6.5
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigrich » 26 Sep 2021, 8:01 pm

deye243 wrote:After having a 6x45 for 9000 rounds trust me there is a reason I did not do another one


care to elaborate ;)
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bladeracer » 26 Sep 2021, 8:28 pm

northdude wrote:yea like I say this is still a new caliber to me I wasn't getting pressure signs with that load but ran out of pills. I'm thinking I might try around the 130gr mark. The problem with it is its not a common caliber so finding someone with actual real life experience is a bit hard to gain some load info off. Actually i should ask on here..


I would just use .30-06 or .270 data.
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigrich » 26 Sep 2021, 8:46 pm

pm sent northdude . nick harvey 6.5-06 load data
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Sep 2021, 10:11 pm

I think this is self explanatory.
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by cleger » 27 Sep 2021, 4:19 am

.243 for everything.

Here in New England, small hardware stores keep them in stock (or they did until everything became scarce.) Them, along with .30-'06, .30-30, .270, and .308. So it was .243 for me.
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigrich » 27 Sep 2021, 5:55 am

cleger wrote:.243 for everything.

Here in New England, small hardware stores keep them in stock (or they did until everything became scarce.) Them, along with .30-'06, .30-30, .270, and .308. So it was .243 for me.


I have my 243 as backup for my 270 . As the website says “enough gun” :D
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by cleger » 27 Sep 2021, 6:09 am

bigrich wrote:
cleger wrote:.243 for everything.

Here in New England, small hardware stores keep them in stock (or they did until everything became scarce.) Them, along with .30-'06, .30-30, .270, and .308. So it was .243 for me.


I have my 243 as backup for my 270 . As the website says “enough gun” :D


Yeah... deer around here only rarely exceed 100 kg.

.243 is just "enough gun" for New England.
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by Die Judicii » 27 Sep 2021, 7:32 am

Thanks fellas,,,,, I see the writing on the wall,,
Overall it seems like the .243 takes the bacon home.
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by ZaineB » 27 Sep 2021, 3:36 pm

.270 does it all
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigrich » 27 Sep 2021, 3:49 pm

Die Judicii wrote:Thanks fellas,,,,, I see the writing on the wall,,
Overall it seems like the .243 takes the bacon home.
:thumbsup:


with a 1-8 twist they shoot heavy for caliber projectiles very well too :thumbsup:
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by on_one_wheel » 27 Sep 2021, 5:36 pm

The good old Pope gun.
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigpete » 27 Sep 2021, 6:09 pm

bigrich wrote:
deye243 wrote:After having a 6x45 for 9000 rounds trust me there is a reason I did not do another one


care to elaborate ;)


I too would like to know what's so bad about it
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bladeracer » 27 Sep 2021, 6:13 pm

bigpete wrote:
bigrich wrote:
deye243 wrote:After having a 6x45 for 9000 rounds trust me there is a reason I did not do another one


care to elaborate ;)


I too would like to know what's so bad about it


It does seem odd to hate a rifle so much you can't help spending hour after hour shooting thousands of dollars through it :-)
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by Biscuits » 30 Sep 2021, 6:43 am

Maybe I’ll chuck in a modern cartridge netting the original criteria, a 6.5mm magnum: the 6.5PRC.
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigpete » 30 Sep 2021, 9:23 am

bladeracer wrote:
bigpete wrote:
bigrich wrote:
deye243 wrote:After having a 6x45 for 9000 rounds trust me there is a reason I did not do another one


care to elaborate ;)


I too would like to know what's so bad about it


It does seem odd to hate a rifle so much you can't help spending hour after hour shooting thousands of dollars through it :-)


Do you think we'll ever get an answer?
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by on_one_wheel » 30 Sep 2021, 10:53 am

The suspense is killing me :crazy: :lol:
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigrich » 30 Sep 2021, 12:22 pm

I spoke with deye243 last night, about the 6x45, there are a few pros and cons from his first hand perspective. The gist is that long 223 projectiles slow more gradually, and have more sectional density which helps the further out you get in terms of energy and wind drift.
Spoke in terms of bullet weights and case capacity, the point of diminishing returns, more or less
I myself, think that for a 200-250 yard general purpose rifle, shooting around 75-87 gn maximum projectile weight, ya do get a lot from little powder and cheap, common brass. The other thing is light 6mm projectiles always seem to be available, whereas high BC 223 projectiles always seem to be harder to find
These views are MY interpretation of information gained through a conversation. Don’t hold deye243 to account for anything I’ve just said

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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigpete » 30 Sep 2021, 1:20 pm

None of that sounds bad to me at all lol
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigrich » 30 Sep 2021, 1:43 pm

bigpete wrote:None of that sounds bad to me at all lol


There are pros and cons either way, I’m not into long distance stuff, so for a compact carry rifle shooting a 75 vmax, which at lower velocity behaves more like a a deer bullet than a varmit bullet, sounds like a good thing if you get within reasonable range and pick your shots on bigger stuff
If I remember correctly, velocity was a tad over 3000 for that weight
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigpete » 30 Sep 2021, 1:52 pm

My point exactly. It was never an ideal long range cartridge anyway.
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigrich » 30 Sep 2021, 3:29 pm

bigpete wrote:My point exactly. It was never an ideal long range cartridge anyway.


point well taken pete . myself , i think out to moderate range it'll hit harder than standard 223 . according to wiki it has 1500ft lbs of energy at the muzzle with a 80gn bullet :thumbsup:
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Re: Which centerfire caliber will win out ?

Post by bigpete » 30 Sep 2021, 3:31 pm

bigrich wrote:
bigpete wrote:My point exactly. It was never an ideal long range cartridge anyway.


point well taken pete . myself , i think out to moderate range it'll hit harder than standard 223 . according to wiki it has 1500ft lbs of energy at the muzzle with a 80gn bullet :thumbsup:


Plus slightly larger frontal area to transfer energy....
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