New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by Bill » 23 Jan 2022, 4:43 pm

They'll probably refer you to the new 2022 catalog

Here is a link the Mark V Ti

https://thescopesmith.com/gun_room/new- ... ertech-tr/
Last edited by Bill on 23 Jan 2022, 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 23 Jan 2022, 4:54 pm

Bill wrote:They probably refer you to the new 2022 catalog

Here is a link the Mark V Ti

https://thescopesmith.com/gun_room/new- ... ertech-tr/


I suspect that's what they'll do, if they knew anything about the rifle they would have the information on the site already.

When they offer the Mark V Ti in 7mm-08 I might have some interest, but pricing looks like it'll be around A$6000+, so nope from me.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 23 Jan 2022, 6:40 pm

You got me curious :-)
I stripped the Ruger American Predator short-action and weighed everything precisely.
The complete stock with buttpad, swivels and V-blocks is 648gm (1lb 6.86oz).
.223 6rd OEM rotary magazine is 48gm (1.69oz) empty (the magazine clips into the stock, not the action).
Complete barreled action with rail, trigger pack and two action bolts is 2377gm (5lb 3.85oz) - without thread protector (but with Hornady rubber bolt ball).
3073gm (6lb 12.4oz) all up from the factory without sights.

The AR Optics 4.5-18x40 scope with aluminium QD mounts (without lens covers) is 744gm (8lb 6.64oz rifle all up). Bushnell claims 550gm for the bare scope so there's about 200gm in my QD mounts (steel fasteners add weight).

The cerakoted 22" barrel (22-1/8" or 562mm to bolt face) is threaded at the muzzle 1/2"-28tpi. The knox is parallel at 1.150" (29.2mm) out to 1.750" (44.5mm) from the receiver, tapers down to .790" (20mm) 5.5" (140mm) from the receiver, then tapers down to .687" (17.5mm) at the muzzle threading, 20.67" (525mm) from the receiver. The thread adds another .585" (14.86mm) of barrel. The Predator barrel is heavier than the Standard barrel but I can't be bothered stripping the wrap off to measure the Standard barrel. Numbers between the Standard and Predator models gives around 200mm more weight to the Predator including the rail. If the barrel profile is 1mm smaller diameter it saves about 120gm.

I could cut 150mm off the muzzle to save about 260gm of weight (average of 17.75mm diameter is 290gm, less 29gm for the 5.56mm hole). As I would not want to do anything else to the barreled action, the lightest I can reasonably get it is 2120gm, though the 16" barrel would be heavier than required. I doubt I could be bothered to turn the profile down and re-cerakote or blue it, but it could conceivably get down to 2000gm without difficulty.

For a pure stalking rifle I think I could build a very rudimentary aluminium "chassis" that simply carries the receiver, conceals the trigger pack and retains the magazine, with a skeletonised buttstock (think early Sten gun stocks but in aluminium) to allow a basic cheekweld, no forend, remove the rail and install iron sights, for roughly 300gm. The AICS poly 10rd .223 mags are 122gm. So I could possibly build the 22" 10rd .223 Ruger American Predator down to about 2800gms, 270gms lighter than OEM at best. About 2600gm in single-shot (no mag or well), about 2520gm 10rd 16", and about 2400gm single-shot 16".

Now, 2400gm is significantly lighter than the original 3073gms for sure, it's enough to be a huge benefit in the bush, but is it worth the overall compromise in barrel length and follow-up shots? And, the Ruger American Ranch Rifle 10rd .223 16" already weighs 2767gm (6.1lb), only 250gm heavier than my contraption would be.

This place claims their carbon stock drops about 7oz or 200gm off the polymer Tikka's weight (A$1200).
https://precisiondefenceindustries.com/featherweight-rifle-stock-faq/

I don't understand or work with ounces. If it weren't for shotshells I would have no idea what an ounce is (it's 28gm). Pounds I can work with a little after years of dealing with Americans, a pound is 454gm, 100lb is 45kg, 100kg is 220lb. Decimal pounds almost make sense, ounces make zero sense at all. And then you find something listed as 6.12lb, but it turns out they mean 6lb 12oz or 6.75lb! Don't mention stones!
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 25 Jan 2022, 10:17 am

Two of the Howa reps responded to my emai with "Yes, it's 4lb 7oz!", without answering any of my questions, like how it can feed 2.800" cartridges if it's shorter than 2.800".

We'll have to wait and see guess.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by Bill » 25 Jan 2022, 5:53 pm

Bladeracer why do think its shorter than 2.800 ??
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 25 Jan 2022, 6:02 pm

Bill wrote:Bladeracer why do think its shorter than 2.800 ??


Because they're claiming it's a new action length between the 2.260" Mini and the 2.800" short-action.
"This new offering has a unique Howa Action build that is in between the popular Howa Mini Action and standard Short Action platform.".
I can't see how it can be, and they probably mean they've reduced the external dimensions of the short-action, which they could just explain.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by LawrenceA » 25 Jan 2022, 7:57 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Bill wrote:Bladeracer why do think its shorter than 2.800 ??


Because they're claiming it's a new action length between the 2.260" Mini and the 2.800" short-action.
"This new offering has a unique Howa Action build that is in between the popular Howa Mini Action and standard Short Action platform.".
I can't see how it can be, and they probably mean they've reduced the external dimensions of the short-action, which they could just explain.

Perhaps they shortened the knox and rear bridge as well as the diameter, Same effective length but shorter, thinner and lighter.
Not sure that could account for a coupla pds though.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 25 Jan 2022, 8:36 pm

LawrenceA wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
Bill wrote:Bladeracer why do think its shorter than 2.800 ??


Because they're claiming it's a new action length between the 2.260" Mini and the 2.800" short-action.
"This new offering has a unique Howa Action build that is in between the popular Howa Mini Action and standard Short Action platform.".
I can't see how it can be, and they probably mean they've reduced the external dimensions of the short-action, which they could just explain.

Perhaps they shortened the knox and rear bridge as well as the diameter, Same effective length but shorter, thinner and lighter.
Not sure that could account for a coupla pds though.


The website calls it a reduced length short action, or something like that.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by LawrenceA » 26 Jan 2022, 10:21 am

And it would be.
Knock a 1/4" off the front and back so the action operating length would be the same but the overall length would be shorter. Or perhaps the operating length has been reduced such that 180 or larger pills need to be seated deeper to ensure feeding.
Time will tell.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 26 Jan 2022, 3:25 pm

LawrenceA wrote:And it would be.
Knock a 1/4" off the front and back so the action operating length would be the same but the overall length would be shorter. Or perhaps the operating length has been reduced such that 180 or larger pills need to be seated deeper to ensure feeding.
Time will tell.


All factory ammunition for short-actions is made to 2.800" maximum to be able to feed (it would be nonsense to choose to load ammo short, reducing case volume for no purpose). It's possible some niche target ammo is loaded longer requiring single-feed but I don't know of any. Even 220gn bullets would be seated to 2.800" to fit the magazine and action. It's possible Howa could make a reduced length short-action, that will not feed factory ammo, but I really can't see any manufacturer doing that.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by LawrenceA » 26 Jan 2022, 6:04 pm

Still able to take some off the front and back. Christensen say they have a new lighter carbon fibre weave. Maybe Howa did that as well.
Time will tell
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 26 Jan 2022, 6:13 pm

LawrenceA wrote:Still able to take some off the front and back. Christensen say they have a new lighter carbon fibre weave. Maybe Howa did that as well.
Time will tell


Yes, but nobody would refer to that as a reduced length short action, unless they're deliberately trying to suck customers in.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 13 Sep 2022, 4:50 pm

The Super Lite is finally making it out to customers in the US.
In .308 it has been weighed at 2.13kg with a rail. One bloke reckons he might be able to save about 40gm with different mounts.
I can't find it listed on Cleaver any more, but I've written and asked the likelihood of getting one in .308 any time soon.

Skip to 9:40 to see it weighed at 4lb 11.25oz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa9UH6Ms-wA
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by Billo » 13 Sep 2022, 7:02 pm

Hey bladeracer Super lites turned up a month ago locally in 6.5 CM and 308 :thumbsup:

Saw that video a while ago and he has the rail attached so no idea what it weighs ??
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 13 Sep 2022, 9:44 pm

Billo wrote:Hey bladeracer Super lites turned up a month ago locally in 6.5 CM and 308 :thumbsup:

Saw that video a while ago and he has the rail attached so no idea what it weighs ??


Do you know who has stock of the Super Lite so I can order one?

He weighed the rifle with the rail on it, then removed the rail and weighed it separately.
Personally, I would keep a one-piece rail than use separate mounts.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by Billo » 13 Sep 2022, 10:59 pm

Barreled actions turned up with OSA last month but they are waiting on the Stocky CF stocks, they also didnt have any rails but I believe they were waiting on a ring solution as its not a current production compatible set ( Yeap new rings that dont fits any other models or makes app)

I want one in 7-08 but Howa havent announced production of this chambering yet but the Magazines are labelled 243, 6.5CM, 7-08 &308 :drinks:
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 13 Sep 2022, 11:51 pm

Billo wrote:Barreled actions turned up with OSA last month but they are waiting on the Stocky CF stocks, they also didnt have any rails but I believe they were waiting on a ring solution as its not a current production compatible set ( Yeap new rings that dont fits any other models or makes app)

I want one in 7-08 but Howa havent announced production of this chambering yet but the Magazines are labelled 243, 6.5CM, 7-08 &308 :drinks:


Yeah, 7mm-08 may come down the line if the rifle sells.
I already have 7mm-08 though so I don't mind getting it in .308.
My real interest in the engineering in how they made it so light.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bigpete » 14 Sep 2022, 8:54 am

I've pretty well pre ordered one at my local once they become available. I'll be going 6.5cm simply because it'll be easier for me to get seeing as I've already got a 308. Then it'll be a quick trip to the gunsmith for some iron sights
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by in2anity » 14 Sep 2022, 9:08 am

holy moly 2.13kg is light. you'd sure know you're alive shooting any moderately powered cartridge. It's a cool concept though - better to do one thing well (i.e. be a light carry rifle) - than a few things averagely. I'm a big advocate for specialization.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Sep 2022, 10:08 am

IMO rifles have been over engineered for years. Mainly lead by the yanks inclination to litigate.
I recall many years ago picking up a very light weight European centre fire rifle, perhaps 8x57.

I reckon they will mainly slim down the barrel and action, perhaps shorter action too, use higher grade steel.

Unfortunately I already have a 223 I'm happy with. Other wise,,,,.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 14 Sep 2022, 3:20 pm

in2anity wrote:holy moly 2.13kg is light. you'd sure know you're alive shooting any moderately powered cartridge. It's a cool concept though - better to do one thing well (i.e. be a light carry rifle) - than a few things averagely. I'm a big advocate for specialization.


If I get one I won't be shooting full-house loads anyway, I'd build it as an unscoped deer rifle using copper monolithic bullets at moderate velocities. Basically, do what the lever-action .30-30 does but with rifle bullets and the accuracy and reliability of a bolt-action.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by in2anity » 14 Sep 2022, 4:14 pm

For a hunting rifle where you shoot once per trip it'd be thrilling. But you'd hate it outside of this
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Sep 2022, 4:20 pm

bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:holy moly 2.13kg is light. you'd sure know you're alive shooting any moderately powered cartridge. It's a cool concept though - better to do one thing well (i.e. be a light carry rifle) - than a few things averagely. I'm a big advocate for specialization.


If I get one I won't be shooting full-house loads anyway, I'd build it as an unscoped deer rifle using copper monolithic bullets at moderate velocities. Basically, do what the lever-action .30-30 does but with rifle bullets and the accuracy and reliability of a bolt-action.


Agree, under about 150 yards its enough. Would kick like a mule in 30-06. Lol.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bigpete » 14 Sep 2022, 5:43 pm

I'll be loading mine hot as I can. Won't kick that much
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by Oldbloke » 14 Sep 2022, 7:18 pm

bigpete wrote:I'll be loading mine hot as I can. Won't kick that much


Blade was talking about down loading a 308
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by LawrenceA » 14 Sep 2022, 7:34 pm

bigpete wrote:I'll be loading mine hot as I can. Won't kick that much

Wont kick for long anyway. :lol:
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bladeracer » 14 Sep 2022, 7:52 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
bigpete wrote:I'll be loading mine hot as I can. Won't kick that much


Blade was talking about down loading a 308


Yep, I would probably prefer the 6.5mm but it wouldn't be sambar-legal here.
And I don't have a .308 so it would fill a gap.
As I said, I'm mainly interested in the design of the rifle.
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bigpete » 14 Sep 2022, 8:03 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
bigpete wrote:I'll be loading mine hot as I can. Won't kick that much


Blade was talking about down loading a 308


I'd load a 308 up the same :unknown:
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by bigpete » 14 Sep 2022, 8:05 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
bigpete wrote:I'll be loading mine hot as I can. Won't kick that much


Blade was talking about down loading a 308


Yep, I would probably prefer the 6.5mm but it wouldn't be sambar-legal here.
And I don't have a .308 so it would fill a gap.
As I said, I'm mainly interested in the design of the rifle.


I'd prefer a 308 but with the stupid SA rules now I'd have more chance of getting a 6.5cm..... :roll:
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Re: New Howa Short Action only 4lbs 7oz

Post by solarpak » 14 Sep 2022, 9:28 pm

Stocky's Carbon Fibre stocks for the std M1500 barrelled actions currently on their way over......makes the std #2 contour barrelled action with the carbon stock weigh around the 2.8kg mark (in 308W)
The carbon elevate is here - carbon fibre stock + carbon fibre barrel - getting hands on one shortly for a look-see........
Keep the total weight with scope under 4kgs and your in the biz.

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