Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

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Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jan 2022, 5:51 pm

There's been some discussion about light hunting rigs, so I weighed of some of mine. Before anybody talks about what their rifle weighs, actually weigh it, as you carry it, not what the website says it's supposed to weigh. Spending time carrying a 3kg rifle and a 6kg rifle will teach you what they're like to carry. Ruger says your American Predator 6.5mm Creedmoor weighs 3kg empty, but add a loaded mag, scope, mounts, rails, bipod, torch, sling, cheek pad, etc and you are certainly not carrying a 3kg rifle any more. The 20rd M16 is only 1kg lighter and 120mm shorter than the 20rd M14, but that 1kg difference when you're carrying it all day through jungle and desert heat changed warfare. You could carry an extra kilo of water or ammo, or simply travel lighter.

My bog stock 22" .223 American Predator is right on 4.1kg (9lb), empty 6rd mag and AR Optics 4.5-18x40. Unlike the Howa Mini though, the Ruger lets me run .223 cartridges at 2.450" (even longer if I single-feed), instead of the 2.260" of the standard Short Action. So for a little more mass I get a lot more versatility

My 22" 7mm-08 is the Standard model which was 2800gm in its poly stock without scope, but it lives in a chassis whose weight varies with how I have it set up on the day. Last time I went bush with it it was at 4.78kg (10.5lb) with empty 10rd mag, scope (with a mount for the reflex if I decide to run them together), folding collapsible M4 stock with rubber butt pad, camo-wrap, Boyds lami pistol grip, rubber bolt knob, and the tail of the single-point sling (attached to an extra pic rail screwed to the side of the chassis). The folder adds weight, but makes it easier to move around in dense bush. I've been experimenting recently with shooting without the buttstock, just with the folding buffer tube, and it is certainly viable, especially on a deer rifle (if you were hunting in a t-shirt with 7mm-08/.308 you might want a pad across your shoulder). That drops the weight to 4.37kg (9.6lb).
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My .204, .223, 243 and 7mm-08 all have their own chassis set up in different ways, but all four can be swapped into any chassis very easily if I want to swap them around, or dropped back into their OEM plastics like the .223 is currently. For heavy deer country I like the way I have the 7mm-08 set up, despite being heavier than I'd want in a rifle I might have to carry. As it merely hangs from my shoulder harness its weight is really not noticeable (the 6-8kg of water in the bladder and on the belt is far more obvious). The QD scope comes off and can be swapped for a pre-zeroed QD reflex sight, making it even lighter - 3.58kg with just the buffer tube.
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Still a heavy rifle, if I have to carry it or sling it over a shoulder, but the apparent difference to the shooter carrying this compared to an unscoped Lee Enfield or Swedish Mauser is enormous, those things are hard work in the bush because of the way you have to carry them. If I did want to go in with a carry rifle it's hard to pass up the 2.8kg Winchester 1894 in .30-30, no sling because it's light enough not to need one. It straps to a pack or harness very well though being so flat.

I love a light rifle, but not if it restricts its versatility and chamberings. Take an uncompromised rifle that will do the job, but adapt it so the weight either doesn't matter, or isn't noticed. You only need the optic on the rifle for the shot, until then it's more secure in a rigid pouch on your harness, and the rifle is lighter and less cumbersome to carry into the shooting area. My varminting rigs tend to be heavier since they are invariably fired from ground positions, but my .223 is currently set up as it came with just the scope added, and does the job just as well as my chassis do.

So, what rig are you lugging about when stalking in bush for a few days (not just have an afternoon walk around), and what does it weigh?

My rifle is probably slightly lighter than the chainsaw I fairly regularly lug about on 5km round trips here on the farm.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bigpete » 18 Jan 2022, 7:02 pm

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Here are some of mine which I weighed 2 weeks ago. Guess which 2 I don’t use f*** all coz they're heavy c*** of things ? You carry a hunting rifle more than shoot it. I'd dearly love one of those howa superlites....a 308 that weighs under 5lb bare ? Yes please ! But not for 1800 bucks...not yet anyway
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by in2anity » 18 Jan 2022, 7:49 pm

Interesting subject. I compete with a Spanish Mauser Cavalry Carbine 308, but only use it for 100m offhand matches - it weighs 3.4kg with x5 in the internal magazine. It’s a lovely offhand gun because it’s light on the arms from standing, points quickly, does not “catch the wind” as badly as the full length service rifles, and the Mauser CRF feed can be counted on when the pressure is on. By far my biggest criticism is the short sight radius - compared with a full length service rifle, it’s just not possible to shoot as tight group. If you have plenty of seconds, and a stable position to settle your sights, a long sight radius always trumps. 100m offhand snaps on the other hand - different story.

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3.4kg FN Spanish Carbine 308
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If I put a red dot on this, the sights would be a lot stronger, and the sight radius issue would disappear. Winner.

Now onto my crappy hunting rifle. I have a Ruger American Ranch carbine 300blk - it’s 3.6kg with scope and sling with x5 in the flush magazine (not this x10 shot magazine in the photo - that’s only for target shooting).

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Ruger American Ranch
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I am comfortable taking shots on medium sized game out to 300m with this gun - provided I can read the wind ok, and it’s not too fishy particularly from head or tail. I’m only slight built 5”10 and I built this rifle up specifically because it’s light and pointable, and yet still plenty accurate for hunting. Plenty.

I’ve carried plenty of rifles over the years, including the Steyr AUG and it’s masochistic to be carrying north of 4kg, especially with today’s technology.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by Blr243 » 18 Jan 2022, 9:08 pm

My unscoped 357 Rossi comes to mind as the easiest rifle I have carried .. I no longer have it , currently my syn stocked 308 7600 pump is probably the lightest ...then medium profile sporters , and then I have those fat tubed howas that I ain’t carting thru the Bush ever
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by boingk » 19 Jan 2022, 9:53 am

Intresting topic, and really well thought out opening post Bladeracer!

I've got the Ruger American 223 Compact Stainless... comes in about 7 pounds (3.2kg) unloaded with optic. Thats just fine by me. The 308 Ranch w/optic also comes in about that. Both shoot acceptably well about the MOA standard.

The little Citadel/Rossi Levtac 92 in 44 Mag comes in 5lb 12oz (2.6kg) with Burris RT1 red dot sighting. It really feels light at that weight, even more so if you take the optic off - then its 5lb 7oz or about 2.4kg.

My Remlin 1895GBL comes in a bit more, 8lb (3.6kg) unloaded with a Leupold 1-4x20.

I'd be happy taking any although would likely take a basic lightweight sling with the 1895 for a longer foot-based hunt as those big old rounds add a bit to the weight.

One thing that comes into this is what you're like physically. My recommendations come from the standpoint of me being a mid-30's male, 6'2" and a fairly fit 105kg. The weights of those rifles clearly don't bother me, but may bother smaller or less physically fit people. They may be considered on the lighter end by larger or more physically fit people, too. Its horses for courses.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by Bill » 19 Jan 2022, 10:11 am

I reckon their are to ways at looking at Light rifles, 1 is outright weight and the other is application.

Most of my Varmint and range guns are what Id called heavy ie more than 9lbs, then I have a few hunting guns that tip the scales in the 6lbs thru to 8lbs range scoped which are light, then I have a sub 10lb 50 cal which is pharking ridiculously light :lol: :drinks:

I do like a light action thou cause then you can apply a bit of weight in the barrel and optics to still having a medium weight long range rig :thumbsup:
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2022, 12:54 pm

bigpete wrote:
Screenshot_20220118-192801_Gallery.jpg

Here are some of mine which I weighed 2 weeks ago. Guess which 2 I don’t use f*** all coz they're heavy c*** of things ? You carry a hunting rifle more than shoot it. I'd dearly love one of those howa superlites....a 308 that weighs under 5lb bare ? Yes please ! But not for 1800 bucks...not yet anyway



The Howa Superlite recently posted is false, the quoted weight is only for the Mini-Action, not the Short-Action of the 6.5CM/.308.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by in2anity » 19 Jan 2022, 1:38 pm

Bill wrote:I do like a light action thou cause then you can apply a bit of weight in the barrel and optics to still having a medium weight long range rig :thumbsup:


I agree. Contrary to what's popular in the target circles (i.e. barnards), here's a target rig I built on a lightweight Tikka t3 action:

https://youtu.be/yaJuaiKBH6s

This rifle with scope and bipod weighs 6kg. It's a crossover TR / F-SH rifle. Definately not a carry rfile, but far from a full-on F-class build. Good for PSR and PRS also.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by Bill » 19 Jan 2022, 1:48 pm

Bladeracer nothing False about it and its not hard to do with a Carbon Fibre stock and plenty of action/mag ligtening. The Super lite is most definitely a Short Action :drinks:

https://shootingsurplus.com/legacy-spor ... yptek-alt/

https://www.legacysports.com/super-lite ... 2-DWsqEnco

LSI - We are excited to announce one of our latest products of 2022 - the Howa Super Lite!
This new offering has a unique Howa Action build that is in between the popular Howa Mini Action and standard Short Action platform.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2022, 1:53 pm

in2anity wrote:Interesting subject. I compete with a Spanish Mauser Cavalry Carbine 308, but only use it for 100m offhand matches - it weighs 3.4kg with x5 in the internal magazine. It’s a lovely offhand gun because it’s light on the arms from standing, points quickly, does not “catch the wind” as badly as the full length service rifles, and the Mauser CRF feed can be counted on when the pressure is on. By far my biggest criticism is the short sight radius - compared with a full length service rifle, it’s just not possible to shoot as tight group. If you have plenty of seconds, and a stable position to settle your sights, a long sight radius always trumps. 100m offhand snaps on the other hand - different story.

416D9DA1-B44D-4CF6-876F-2EB1DE1E6B7B.jpeg


If I put a red dot on this, the sights would be a lot stronger, and the sight radius issue would disappear. Winner.

Now onto my crappy hunting rifle. I have a Ruger American Ranch carbine 300blk - it’s 3.6kg with scope and sling with x5 in the flush magazine (not this x10 shot magazine in the photo - that’s only for target shooting).

7AFA4382-875F-4C7E-956A-67C83A179F35.jpeg


I am comfortable taking shots on medium sized game out to 300m with this gun - provided I can read the wind ok, and it’s not too fishy particularly from head or tail. I’m only slight built 5”10 and I built this rifle up specifically because it’s light and pointable, and yet still plenty accurate for hunting. Plenty.

I’ve carried plenty of rifles over the years, including the Steyr AUG and it’s masochistic to be carrying north of 4kg, especially with today’s technology.


I like those Spanish Carbines, but not in .308, how did that happen :-)

Love the Ranch Rifle, but that sling looks like a quarter-kilo on it's own :-)
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by Bill » 19 Jan 2022, 1:53 pm

in2anity wrote:
Bill wrote:I do like a light action thou cause then you can apply a bit of weight in the barrel and optics to still having a medium weight long range rig :thumbsup:


I agree. Contrary to what's popular in the target circles (i.e. barnards), here's a target rig I built on a lightweight Tikka t3 action:

https://youtu.be/yaJuaiKBH6s

This rifle with scope and bipod weighs 6kg. It's a crossover TR / F-SH rifle. Definately not a carry rfile, but far from a full-on F-class build. Good for PSR and PRS also.


Nice shooting, whats scopes ontop, looked like almost perfect conditions :thumbsup:
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2022, 1:57 pm

Bill wrote:Bladeracer nothing False about it and its not hard to do with a Carbon Fibre stock and plenty of action/mag ligtening. The Super lite is most definitely a Short Action :drinks:

https://shootingsurplus.com/legacy-spor ... yptek-alt/

https://www.legacysports.com/super-lite ... 2-DWsqEnco

LSI - We are excited to announce one of our latest products of 2022 - the Howa Super Lite!
This new offering has a unique Howa Action build that is in between the popular Howa Mini Action and standard Short Action platform.


I know the Superlite is a short-action, it's also a mini-action and a long-action, the weight they quoted in the article is for the mini, not the short action.
The "build" is in between the mini-action and the short-action, but the actions are the same, there is no "new" action length. If you can find me any information about them having designed a new maxi-mini-action please post it.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2022, 1:59 pm

Blr243 wrote:My unscoped 357 Rossi comes to mind as the easiest rifle I have carried .. I no longer have it , currently my syn stocked 308 7600 pump is probably the lightest ...then medium profile sporters , and then I have those fat tubed howas that I ain’t carting thru the Bush ever


I think I need to make or find a lightweight stock replacement for the Win94.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by in2anity » 19 Jan 2022, 1:59 pm

Bill wrote:Nice shooting, whats scopes ontop, looked like almost perfect conditions :thumbsup:


Just a vortex Strike Eagle - I'm not much of a scoped shooter, so I didn't go all-out with the spend. Conditions were favorable that day; although the 8o'clock wind was a up down - the dust gives clues; it died halfway through then picked up again. No flags on that range, which makes it trickier.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2022, 2:04 pm

Agreed, outright lightness is possible, but usually by compromising some part of its function or versatility.
And, yes it all starts with a lightweight barreled-action, then you can add the bits you want where you want them.

Bill wrote:I reckon their are to ways at looking at Light rifles, 1 is outright weight and the other is application.

Most of my Varmint and range guns are what Id called heavy ie more than 9lbs, then I have a few hunting guns that tip the scales in the 6lbs thru to 8lbs range scoped which are light, then I have a sub 10lb 50 cal which is pharking ridiculously light :lol: :drinks:

I do like a light action thou cause then you can apply a bit of weight in the barrel and optics to still having a medium weight long range rig :thumbsup:
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2022, 2:09 pm

Bill wrote:Bladeracer nothing False about it and its not hard to do with a Carbon Fibre stock and plenty of action/mag ligtening. The Super lite is most definitely a Short Action :drinks:


The Howa barrelled short-action in .223 weighs 2.42kg (5.33lb) bare, without any stock. They did not build a 2kg complete rifle with it. The 2kg quoted is the weight of the Superlite Mini-Action, in its standard mini chamberings.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bigpete » 19 Jan 2022, 2:14 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigpete wrote:
Screenshot_20220118-192801_Gallery.jpg

Here are some of mine which I weighed 2 weeks ago. Guess which 2 I don’t use f*** all coz they're heavy c*** of things ? You carry a hunting rifle more than shoot it. I'd dearly love one of those howa superlites....a 308 that weighs under 5lb bare ? Yes please ! But not for 1800 bucks...not yet anyway



The Howa Superlite recently posted is false, the quoted weight is only for the Mini-Action, not the Short-Action of the 6.5CM/.308.


Thsts what i thought but there's 2 different rifles,a carbon lite and a super lite. The super lite is the one with only 308 and 6.5 creedmore that weighs 4lb 7oz
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by Bill » 19 Jan 2022, 2:50 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Bill wrote:Bladeracer nothing False about it and its not hard to do with a Carbon Fibre stock and plenty of action/mag ligtening. The Super lite is most definitely a Short Action :drinks:


The Howa barrelled short-action in .223 weighs 2.42kg (5.33lb) bare, without any stock. They did not build a 2kg complete rifle with it. The 2kg quoted is the weight of the Superlite Mini-Action, in its standard mini chamberings.


I give up Bladerace. The complete Super Lite SA rifle weighs 4lbs 7oz (yes thats 2kg), thats with the stocky CF stock and it comes chambered in 6.5CM and 308. Thats what the article states. You can see from the pictures its clearly not the current Mini action length that the 223, 6mm Grendel is based upon.

Having the receiver the same size (speculation) as the current Mini action but the same length as the current SA makes it a an all new Short Action :drinks:

The Carbon Stalker Mini weighs 4lb 10oz but you get 2 inch more barrel and a magazine that weighs more than the new Super Lite 6.5CM/308 on page 4 of the catalogue below.

https://www.howausa.com/wp-content/uplo ... FxbActgG5g

I built a 260rem years ago on a Rem 7 and had no trouble getting it down to 4lbs 11oz even with a metal floor plate so what Howa has done is leap frog the whole market including Sako/Tikka/Kimber and good on em :thumbsup:
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2022, 2:53 pm

bigpete wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
bigpete wrote:
Screenshot_20220118-192801_Gallery.jpg

Here are some of mine which I weighed 2 weeks ago. Guess which 2 I don’t use f*** all coz they're heavy c*** of things ? You carry a hunting rifle more than shoot it. I'd dearly love one of those howa superlites....a 308 that weighs under 5lb bare ? Yes please ! But not for 1800 bucks...not yet anyway



The Howa Superlite recently posted is false, the quoted weight is only for the Mini-Action, not the Short-Action of the 6.5CM/.308.


Thsts what i thought but there's 2 different rifles,a carbon lite and a super lite. The super lite is the one with only 308 and 6.5 creedmore that weighs 4lb 7oz


I was unable to find anything about that, and if it were fact it would be the biggest advancement in bolt-action rifles since the Ruger American.
To be chambered in 6.5CM and .308 it has to be a short-action, if it were a tenth-of-an-inch shorter it wouldn't feed those cartridges...
The carbon lite isn't much lighter than the polymer version, carbon fibre is strong by sectional density, but it is still just as bulky as polymer so there is virtually no weight saved - I know this from motorcycle racing. To be able to attach anything to carbon fibre you have to cast in bosses (like pillar bedding), usually aluminium or magnesium, which increases the weight significantly. There are some places where you can benefit from carbon fibre being lighter, but firearms aren't one of them.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by MontyShooter » 19 Jan 2022, 6:14 pm

My tikka t3x superlite in 7mm mag can't be much more than 3kg scoped. No one who has shot it has suggested taking any weight out of it...
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by jwai86 » 19 Jan 2022, 10:01 pm

Isn't lightness a subjective opinion based on your level of physical fitness and willingness to put up with walking around with a given load?
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by Bill » 19 Jan 2022, 10:07 pm

jwai86 wrote:Isn't lightness a subjective opinion based on your level of physical fitness and willingness to put up with walking around with a given load?


correct, the last two hunts I carried a 9.5lb Howa with a 4-16 scope ontop and Im fit as a fiddle :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by 6mm Remington » 07 Feb 2022, 10:09 am

A mate used to have a BSA 243 Royal Majestic "featherweight"
It was made in 1957 and had a muzzle brake as standard.
Beautiful rifle, and like the name suggested it was as light as a feather.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by Biscuits » 07 Feb 2022, 11:56 pm

This is quite an interesting subject. Personally, I would define "light" as a rifle which you can shoot offshand, unsupported, without having your accuracy affected by having to weightlift a heavy gun.

I'm a bit sparse in hunting rifles; infact this is it and even this is quite heavy at 5.5kg as shown in European spec with a suppressor, 5.2kg without the suppressor. Remington 700, with a KRG Bravo stock and S&B PMII scope. I rarely shoot this offhand and if I do, I only have a few seconds to aim and fire before I get tired. It's fine off shooting sticks or a high seat. Would always have a sling for it if hunting.

For carrying this rifle, I do not find it heavy but I do find it uncomfortable as the scope turrets or the bolt handle will dig into me somewhere.

I'm thinking I should buy a 308 scout rifle or a 308 straight pull and put a light, low power scope on it and this would serve for a hunting rig and for CSR competitions.

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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by Mini Hulk » 10 Feb 2022, 1:46 pm

My Howa 308 with 20" heavy fluted barrel sits a hair under 4.4kg (9.7 lbs) when it's empty. It still has the original pillar bedded Hogue stock and feels quite front heavy.

Do you guys reckon it's worth the extra weight for a timber stock (such as a boyds) to help bring the weight a bit more backwards? I was thinking it it might make it heavier to carry, but help with off hand shots?

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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by in2anity » 10 Feb 2022, 4:22 pm

Mini Hulk wrote:My Howa 308 with 20" heavy fluted barrel sits a hair under 4.4kg (9.7 lbs) when it's empty. It still has the original pillar bedded Hogue stock and feels quite front heavy.

Do you guys reckon it's worth the extra weight for a timber stock (such as a boyds) to help bring the weight a bit more backwards? I was thinking it it might make it heavier to carry, but help with off hand shots?

Howa 308.jpg


4.4kg is still heavy for a carry rifle in my books, but balance is rather important, for offhand competition shooting. There is a good video about the subject here:

https://youtu.be/TUJ4hk0_YoU

Nevertheless for a couple of shots from offhand with fresh arms, poor balance is probably not a huge problem. Groups will always start tight and open up, by the end of a match, when arm fatigue starts to set in.

To cut a long story short, I don’t think switching to timber (and adding more weight) will help you bag more game. It’s just gonna make it more of a haul.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bladeracer » 10 Feb 2022, 5:20 pm

in2anity wrote:
Mini Hulk wrote:My Howa 308 with 20" heavy fluted barrel sits a hair under 4.4kg (9.7 lbs) when it's empty. It still has the original pillar bedded Hogue stock and feels quite front heavy.

Do you guys reckon it's worth the extra weight for a timber stock (such as a boyds) to help bring the weight a bit more backwards? I was thinking it it might make it heavier to carry, but help with off hand shots?

Howa 308.jpg


4.4kg is still heavy for a carry rifle in my books, but balance is rather important, for offhand competition shooting. There is a good video about the subject here:

https://youtu.be/TUJ4hk0_YoU

Nevertheless for a couple of shots from offhand with fresh arms, poor balance is probably not a huge problem. Groups will always start tight and open up, by the end of a match, when arm fatigue starts to set in.

To cut a long story short, I don’t think switching to timber (and adding more weight) will help you bag more game. It’s just gonna make it more of a haul.



I would agree with that, if you're taking offhand shots on game, you're probably very close, 50m or less, if you're not close then you should have time to find a better supported position, leaning against a tree or dropping to a knee.

On the other hand though, you might be carrying the rifle for eight hours to take that ten-second shot, and I'd rather carry a lighter rifle and a take a few more seconds making the shot.

When I'm shooting things that are front heavy, I turn my left shoulder in more alongside the rifle so I can push my left hand much further forward along the forend. I also like to keep my left arm almost straight out rather than bunched up near my body.

If it's front heavy due to the heavy barrel, it's going to be difficult to remedy without putting a lighter barrel on it. You could try taking an inch or two off the butt stock so your support hand is further out toward the balance point, assuming it doesn't get too short to be comfortable to shoot.

You could also shorten the barrel further, but in .308 the muzzle blast is likely to be unpleasant if you use the rifle for anything other than an occasional shot on game. You could add a muzzle device to reduce blast in those situations though.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by in2anity » 10 Feb 2022, 9:11 pm

bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:
Mini Hulk wrote:My Howa 308 with 20" heavy fluted barrel sits a hair under 4.4kg (9.7 lbs) when it's empty. It still has the original pillar bedded Hogue stock and feels quite front heavy.

Do you guys reckon it's worth the extra weight for a timber stock (such as a boyds) to help bring the weight a bit more backwards? I was thinking it it might make it heavier to carry, but help with off hand shots?

Howa 308.jpg


4.4kg is still heavy for a carry rifle in my books, but balance is rather important, for offhand competition shooting. There is a good video about the subject here:

https://youtu.be/TUJ4hk0_YoU

Nevertheless for a couple of shots from offhand with fresh arms, poor balance is probably not a huge problem. Groups will always start tight and open up, by the end of a match, when arm fatigue starts to set in.

To cut a long story short, I don’t think switching to timber (and adding more weight) will help you bag more game. It’s just gonna make it more of a haul.



I would agree with that, if you're taking offhand shots on game, you're probably very close, 50m or less, if you're not close then you should have time to find a better supported position, leaning against a tree or dropping to a knee.

On the other hand though, you might be carrying the rifle for eight hours to take that ten-second shot, and I'd rather carry a lighter rifle and a take a few more seconds making the shot.

When I'm shooting things that are front heavy, I turn my left shoulder in more alongside the rifle so I can push my left hand much further forward along the forend. I also like to keep my left arm almost straight out rather than bunched up near my body.

If it's front heavy due to the heavy barrel, it's going to be difficult to remedy without putting a lighter barrel on it. You could try taking an inch or two off the butt stock so your support hand is further out toward the balance point, assuming it doesn't get too short to be comfortable to shoot.

You could also shorten the barrel further, but in .308 the muzzle blast is likely to be unpleasant if you use the rifle for anything other than an occasional shot on game. You could add a muzzle device to reduce blast in those situations though.


If it’s an offhand comp gun then it makes sense to try and balance her in the middle. There’s this guy who always shoots “non-service” category in our club, think he came from Alpine. He uses a t3 varmint barrel. The guy can shoot - his 100m offhand application stages always start super strong - I’ve scored for him many a time; all Vs and 5s. But by the end, he gets sloppy. Stage two is where he drops big points because his arms are obviously tiring. He openly admits the dilemma. The rifle is otherwise sublime for the sit and prone mounds.
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by bladeracer » 10 Feb 2022, 9:32 pm

in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:
Mini Hulk wrote:My Howa 308 with 20" heavy fluted barrel sits a hair under 4.4kg (9.7 lbs) when it's empty. It still has the original pillar bedded Hogue stock and feels quite front heavy.

Do you guys reckon it's worth the extra weight for a timber stock (such as a boyds) to help bring the weight a bit more backwards? I was thinking it it might make it heavier to carry, but help with off hand shots?

Howa 308.jpg


4.4kg is still heavy for a carry rifle in my books, but balance is rather important, for offhand competition shooting. There is a good video about the subject here:

https://youtu.be/TUJ4hk0_YoU

Nevertheless for a couple of shots from offhand with fresh arms, poor balance is probably not a huge problem. Groups will always start tight and open up, by the end of a match, when arm fatigue starts to set in.

To cut a long story short, I don’t think switching to timber (and adding more weight) will help you bag more game. It’s just gonna make it more of a haul.



I would agree with that, if you're taking offhand shots on game, you're probably very close, 50m or less, if you're not close then you should have time to find a better supported position, leaning against a tree or dropping to a knee.

On the other hand though, you might be carrying the rifle for eight hours to take that ten-second shot, and I'd rather carry a lighter rifle and a take a few more seconds making the shot.

When I'm shooting things that are front heavy, I turn my left shoulder in more alongside the rifle so I can push my left hand much further forward along the forend. I also like to keep my left arm almost straight out rather than bunched up near my body.

If it's front heavy due to the heavy barrel, it's going to be difficult to remedy without putting a lighter barrel on it. You could try taking an inch or two off the butt stock so your support hand is further out toward the balance point, assuming it doesn't get too short to be comfortable to shoot.

You could also shorten the barrel further, but in .308 the muzzle blast is likely to be unpleasant if you use the rifle for anything other than an occasional shot on game. You could add a muzzle device to reduce blast in those situations though.


If it’s an offhand comp gun then it makes sense to try and balance her in the middle. There’s this guy who always shoots “non-service” category in our club, think he came from Alpine. He uses a t3 varmint barrel. The guy can shoot - his 100m offhand application stages always start super strong - I’ve scored for him many a time; all Vs and 5s. But by the end, he gets sloppy. Stage two is where he drops big points because his arms are obviously tiring. He openly admits the dilemma. The rifle is otherwise sublime for the sit and prone mounds.


I think his mention about carrying the rifle probably means he's not shooting competition.

I wish I could shoot offhand like Paul Harrell, but I probably need another thirty years of solid practice :-)
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Re: Light hunting rifles, how is "light" defined?

Post by Mini Hulk » 10 Feb 2022, 9:46 pm

bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:4.4kg is still heavy for a carry rifle in my books, but balance is rather important, for offhand competition shooting. There is a good video about the subject here:

https://youtu.be/TUJ4hk0_YoU

Nevertheless for a couple of shots from offhand with fresh arms, poor balance is probably not a huge problem. Groups will always start tight and open up, by the end of a match, when arm fatigue starts to set in.

To cut a long story short, I don’t think switching to timber (and adding more weight) will help you bag more game. It’s just gonna make it more of a haul.



I would agree with that, if you're taking offhand shots on game, you're probably very close, 50m or less, if you're not close then you should have time to find a better supported position, leaning against a tree or dropping to a knee.

On the other hand though, you might be carrying the rifle for eight hours to take that ten-second shot, and I'd rather carry a lighter rifle and a take a few more seconds making the shot.

When I'm shooting things that are front heavy, I turn my left shoulder in more alongside the rifle so I can push my left hand much further forward along the forend. I also like to keep my left arm almost straight out rather than bunched up near my body.

If it's front heavy due to the heavy barrel, it's going to be difficult to remedy without putting a lighter barrel on it. You could try taking an inch or two off the butt stock so your support hand is further out toward the balance point, assuming it doesn't get too short to be comfortable to shoot.

You could also shorten the barrel further, but in .308 the muzzle blast is likely to be unpleasant if you use the rifle for anything other than an occasional shot on game. You could add a muzzle device to reduce blast in those situations though.


If it’s an offhand comp gun then it makes sense to try and balance her in the middle. There’s this guy who always shoots “non-service” category in our club, think he came from Alpine. He uses a t3 varmint barrel. The guy can shoot - his 100m offhand application stages always start super strong - I’ve scored for him many a time; all Vs and 5s. But by the end, he gets sloppy. Stage two is where he drops big points because his arms are obviously tiring. He openly admits the dilemma. The rifle is otherwise sublime for the sit and prone mounds.


I think his mention about carrying the rifle probably means he's not shooting competition.

I wish I could shoot offhand like Paul Harrell, but I probably need another thirty years of solid practice :-)


Wow thanks for all the replies. At the moment I'm not using it for any competitions although I'd like to try field rifle or something like that to help improve my shooting. The only problem is the nearest place to me to do it is 2 hours drive away at Little River.
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