Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calibre?

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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by deanp100 » 21 Jan 2022, 7:56 am

bigpete wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
bigpete wrote:
disco stu wrote:I have now heard 2 people say that the hardest kicking rifles they've shot have been 44 magnum. I was surprised by this. One of these guys hunts buffalo and builds a lot of big rifles for guys, so shoots a lot of really big cartridges

Sounds like crap to me. My rossi 92 was pleasant to shoot even running 310gn pills as hard as they can go,not even remotely comparable to my 2 45-70 rifles or my 458wm, and lighter to boot.


Tend to agree. Never shot one,
but looking at the load data the most I saw was 24 gr of powder. Should be a pussy-cat. Or am I missing something.


I bet one of those guys was a certain gunsmith from Gove who talks that much crap I've blocked his phone number after 2 conversations with him....

Does this guy like making extra large caliber wildcats ?
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bladeracer » 21 Jan 2022, 2:41 pm

Absolutely spot on, the cartridge becomes irrelevant if you load your own.
.45-70 can be loaded down to pussycat .45 Colt levels, but it's still able to do .45-70 things when required.
8x57mm shoots like a .22 at subsonic velocities, but can still sling a 180gn Nosler very hard when required to.
.30-06 with 1700fps 123gn bullets is great fun (cheap Berry's .311" copper-plated) to shoot all day long, then zero with something heavier and go drop some big beast.
In 7mm-08 I mainly use a 145gn SP subsonic for shooting small stuff, then hot TTSX loads for big stuff.
My .204 I shoot 90% of the time as a "Hornet" at 2400fps, but when I need to reach out I can.


Hardcast wrote:Pretty much any centrefire cartridge can be loaded with a 'reduced' load.
So why buy a special rifle to shoot animal 'X' but it won't shoot animal 'Y' .
As mentioned already, 308 or 30.06, 7mm, 6.5, etc can all be used this way, by children if necessary.
I've enjoyed reduced loadings as part of the shooting Sports for many years. Add to that Cast projectiles and there's another aspect of utilizing the same rifle to do many things. :thumbsup:
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bladeracer » 21 Jan 2022, 3:01 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
bigpete wrote:
disco stu wrote:I have now heard 2 people say that the hardest kicking rifles they've shot have been 44 magnum. I was surprised by this. One of these guys hunts buffalo and builds a lot of big rifles for guys, so shoots a lot of really big cartridges

Sounds like crap to me. My rossi 92 was pleasant to shoot even running 310gn pills as hard as they can go,not even remotely comparable to my 2 45-70 rifles or my 458wm, and lighter to boot.


Tend to agree. Never shot one,
but looking at the load data the most I saw was 24 gr of powder. Should be a pussy-cat. Or am I missing something.


I don't think I would call full-house 240gn loads pussycat-like, you are aware you're shooting, but they're not painful or difficult to handle. I probably wouldn't enjoy shooting 100 of them in a session much, but I'd prefer it to 20rds of 12ga. :-)

Probably more to do with the .44 rifles being under 7lb.
If he likes shooting stuff that recoils he could be so inclined, but those heavy rifles might be well over 10lb.
The Ruger 77-44 is listed at 5.2lb or 2.35kg.

But, it sounds to me like he was just talking ******.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bigpete » 21 Jan 2022, 3:45 pm

Thats what he does best.
Fwiw,310gn full power loads are pleasant in a nice light rossi 92
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bladeracer » 21 Jan 2022, 4:43 pm

bigpete wrote:Thats what he does best.
Fwiw,310gn full power loads are pleasant in a nice light rossi 92


Perhaps if you're a "big Pete" they might be pleasant, most of us aren't much over 6'1" and 100kg though ;-)
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bigpete » 21 Jan 2022, 5:08 pm

I've seen a skinny,40kg girl happily absorb recoil from my 45-70 double rifle and my 458wm firing full house loads....size has got nothing to do with it ;)
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Jan 2022, 5:16 pm

bigpete wrote:I've seen a skinny,40kg girl happily absorb recoil from my 45-70 double rifle and my 458wm firing full house loads....size has got nothing to do with it ;)


IMO the lighter you are the more likely you will "roll" with the punch. Easing the pain. If your a big boy that won't happen, so it "punches" you. And the shoulder takes all of it. This is due to inertia.

This is why off hand shooting is easier on the shoulder that bench shooting.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Jan 2022, 5:25 pm

Just to add.
If you have a lot of natural shoulder "padding", it could help a bit. Lol
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by SJFT » 04 Mar 2022, 6:42 am

44mag and 357mag are great for the in close stuff.. but at 150 metres you've got a fair bit of holdover for irregular or new shooters to need to manage (a little over 4Moa or 1.2mils with a 100m zero and over 6moa or just under 2mils with a 50m zero).. I'd be more inclined to look at something like a T3x lite in .243 or 6.5 (under 7 pounds) or a Howa mini action in 7.62x39 or 300AAC Blackout (just over 7).. you'll find it easier to get projectiles to reload the blackout with if you plan to reload.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by mickb » 12 Mar 2022, 9:27 am

Im in the Rainforest regions, I use a 357 mag Rossi 92 for most of my hunting. Recoil is minimal, about 2x what a 223 is, which is still less than half a 308. It works well. I stick to heavier 140, 158 level bullets though, not factory 125gns which are lightweight hollowpoints meant for pistols. All carbines add velocity to the original pistol ballistics. 357 more than all others, 400,500, even 600fps increase from the longer barrel.

There is no problem using a 357 at 150 yards if you can get an accurate load. Particularly if you handload- a 158 XTP at 2000fps is no problem for a rossi and this will shoot relatively flat to that range. An 1892 rossi, chiappa, browning, winchester whatever feels like a toy gun in the hands but kills out of proportion to its size. A heavily loaded 180xtp at 1700fps I believe will take most things except very large game. I'm going to try it on wild horse at some point. Regards choice of 357's or for that matter 44 mag it goes something like this.

1892 actions in modern repros( rossi/puma, chiappa, browning, winchester) are the strongest(fastest loads), lightest but as they are top eject if you want scope or red dot you need to get a gunsmith to mount an aftermarket rail etc in the forward position. This doesnt bother a red dot but a forward mounted scope needs to be long eye relief.

Marlin. Almost as strong as the 1892, a bit heavier, side eject so you can mount a scope in the normal position aka much easier to scope right out of the box.

1873 reproductions. The 1873 was an older , much weaker action but is being marketed again in high pressure cals like 357 and 44. Its technically okay to use them, but some people still have concerns over the actions strength. Not blowing up, but lengthening of headspace over time

Of brands Rossis are the go-to for cheap, rough, and strong. Their faults are usually related to final finish, if you get one that is chewing up rims, or scraping brass when you load it into the gate a gunsmith can usually fix them no probs. Usually most of the faults if any can be smoothed out. The guns themselves usually good accurate shooters( for lever actions) and STRONG. Not that I suggest it but fells in the US run them up to 50,000 PSI.

New Winchester/mirokus are much nicer our of the box and the price reflects it.

Chiappa, well all I can say is I wont use the brand again as too many warranty issues for me in another model.

Browning were probably the best 1892 ever made in the late 70's/80's, if you can find one grab it.

Uberti does the modern repros in 1873 actions. Very nice guns, same price as miroku roughly. Again personally not my choice for high pressure rounds but no one has blown one up yet.

The other great advantage of the 357 (and 44's, 45colts) has been somewhat nullified and that is cheap reloading. Hunting bullets are usually under half a dollar, brass you can pick up almost free as fellas who dont reload sell buckets of it second hand, powder charges in 357 only 12-20 for magnum loads. The issue of course is pistol powders are now almost unavailble, the last stocks of US made Alliant are about gone and ADI has stopped production of theirs for now. For factory ammo all round hunting at low cost I would probably try the dirt cheap geco stuff in 158 grain
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bladeracer » 12 Mar 2022, 9:59 am

mickb wrote:The other great advantage of the 357 (and 44's, 45colts) has been somewhat nullified and that is cheap reloading. Hunting bullets are usually under half a dollar, brass you can pick up almost free as fellas who dont reload sell buckets of it second hand, powder charges in 357 only 12-20 for magnum loads. The issue of course is pistol powders are now almost unavailable, the last stocks of US made Alliant are about gone and ADI has stopped production of theirs for now. For factory ammo all round hunting at low cost I would probably try the dirt cheap geco stuff in 158 grain


.357 bullets are still relatively cheap, the .44's are getting expensive just due to their weight, 240gn of lead and copper costs more than 158gn does. Their biggest advantage is that casting your own bullets is pretty easy, and their large diameter makes them fairly effective on live targets. If you have a source of free lead (best is to recover your own plinking bullets), you can shoot the .357 and .44 for about the same cost as shooting .22LR. Even if you have to buy new lead for $12/kg, a kilo gives you 100 150gn bullets or 60 240gn bullets, so 12c to 20c apiece. The pistol-calibers make for pretty cheap shooting.

Try AR2206H in the .357, should work okay in the .44 as well.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by mickb » 12 Mar 2022, 12:22 pm

True about projectiles bladeracer, but as to powders, no load data exists for 2206H ( or H4895 as hodgon calls it) in 357 , its too slow.

Ar2205 is good for magnum loads, but the last stocks of it have been gobbled up some months ago. Until some Alliant powders come in or ADI restarts production, reloading 357 for new shooters is a no go.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bladeracer » 12 Mar 2022, 1:17 pm

mickb wrote:True about projectiles bladeracer, but as to powders, no load data exists for 2206H ( or H4895 as hodgon calls it) in 357 , its too slow.

Ar2205 is good for magnum loads, but the last stocks of it have been gobbled up some months ago. Until some Alliant powders come in or ADI restarts production, reloading 357 for new shooters is a no go.


You don't need somebody else's data, make your own - it works, especially in rifle-length barrels.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by mickb » 12 Mar 2022, 3:10 pm

bladeracer wrote:
mickb wrote:True about projectiles bladeracer, but as to powders, no load data exists for 2206H ( or H4895 as hodgon calls it) in 357 , its too slow.

Ar2205 is good for magnum loads, but the last stocks of it have been gobbled up some months ago. Until some Alliant powders come in or ADI restarts production, reloading 357 for new shooters is a no go.


You don't need somebody else's data, make your own - it works, especially in rifle-length barrels.


No thanks, I have plenty of pistol powders. What velocity and SD do you get, a lot of that rifle powder will be exiting unburnt in any barrelI am thinking.

Also, why 2206H? 2206H doesnt come after 2205 in burn rate, its actually slower than AR2206, AR2207, AR2219 and a bunch of other rifle powders...

http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/burning-rates/
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bladeracer » 12 Mar 2022, 4:38 pm

mickb wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
mickb wrote:True about projectiles bladeracer, but as to powders, no load data exists for 2206H ( or H4895 as hodgon calls it) in 357 , its too slow.

Ar2205 is good for magnum loads, but the last stocks of it have been gobbled up some months ago. Until some Alliant powders come in or ADI restarts production, reloading 357 for new shooters is a no go.


You don't need somebody else's data, make your own - it works, especially in rifle-length barrels.


No thanks, I have plenty of pistol powders. What velocity and SD do you get, a lot of that rifle powder will be exiting unburnt in any barreI am thinking.

Also, why 2206H? 2206H doesnt come after 2205 in burn rate, its actually slower than AR2206, AR2207, AR2219 and a bunch of other rifle powders...

http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/burning-rates/


Don't be so afraid of learning new stuff :-)
If it works in 9x19mm in a pistol barrel it'll definitely work in a much bigger case in a rifle barrel.
I have plenty of pistol powders as well, but a lot of other people have none at all.
I got 560fps on 12.5gn of AR2206H in the 9mm. Not great, but more useable than having no ammo at all. At least you can practice with these loads and save your proper loads for actual competition.
If you can get some AR2205, or some pistol powder to duplex load it works much better. Another member here was experimenting with duplex loads in .357 Magnum with decent results. I think he was using a pistol though, I'd have to find his posts.
AR2206H is slower than a lot of powders that don't exist currently...so it's a good choice to experiment with compared to other rifle powders which are even slower. You may be able to find some AR2207 perhaps, but as it's also hard to find it seems a waste to be experimenting with it. No point getting results with a powder nobody can get.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by mickb » 12 Mar 2022, 6:33 pm

Don't be so afraid of learning new stuff :-)

Just pointing out for the OP that when you say a medium speed rifle powder works 'okay' for 44 and 357, what you really should say it produces under half the cases normal velocity and no published data either. As you say below with the 9mm, twice the powder burnt for half the normal velocity.

My comment was reloading 357 and 44 is a no go until powder supply resumes and this is a fact. (barring home experimental loads at half power which I am sure the OP isnt intending to take on pigs and goats).

I have plenty of pistol powders as well, but a lot of other people have none at all.
I got 560fps on 12.5gn of AR2206H in the 9mm. Not great, but more useable than having no ammo at all.
At least you can practice with these loads and save your proper loads for actual competition.
If you can get some AR2205, or some pistol powder to duplex load it works much better. Another member here was experimenting with duplex loads in .357 Magnum with decent results. I think he was using a pistol though, I'd have to find his posts.AR2206H is slower than a lot of powders that don't exist currently...so it's a good choice to experiment with compared to other rifle powders which are even slower. You may be able to find some AR2207 perhaps, but as it's also hard to find it seems a waste to be experimenting with it. No point getting results with a powder nobody can get.


Survival reloading( whatever works to eat)is a separate subject. Personally I wouldnt use rifle powders this way anyway. Twice the powder for half the speed is going against the principle. Better money in that case is getting a smallbore rifle. 12 grains in a 22 hornet does better work than a pistol at 560fps..
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bladeracer » 12 Mar 2022, 6:39 pm

The 9mm is particularly difficult due to the tiny case capacity, even more so in a pistol-length barrel, that's why I experimented with it - if I could get that to work with AR2206H then I knew most anything else would work even better. The .357 and .44 work much better, especially in rifle-length barrels.

If you have .357 and .44 handguns, and can't use them because you have no pistol powders, try AR2206H. If you're using these cartridges in rifles definitely try AR2206H.

mickb wrote:
Don't be so afraid of learning new stuff :-)


Just pointing out for the OP that when you say a medium speed rifle powder works okay for 44 and 357, what you really should say its works like crap and is unsuitable for the hunting the OP is talking about.

As you say below with the 9mm, twice the powder burnt for half the normal velocity.


I have plenty of pistol powders as well, but a lot of other people have none at all.
I got 560fps on 12.5gn of AR2206H in the 9mm. Not great, but more useable than having no ammo at all.
At least you can practice with these loads and save your proper loads for actual competition.
If you can get some AR2205, or some pistol powder to duplex load it works much better. Another member here was experimenting with duplex loads in .357 Magnum with decent results. I think he was using a pistol though, I'd have to find his posts.AR2206H is slower than a lot of powders that don't exist currently...so it's a good choice to experiment with compared to other rifle powders which are even slower. You may be able to find some AR2207 perhaps, but as it's also hard to find it seems a waste to be experimenting with it. No point getting results with a powder nobody can get.


Survival reloading( whatever works to eat)is a separate subject. Personally I wouldnt waste rifle powders in this way anyway. Twice the amount for half the powder is going the wrong direction. Better money is getting a smallbore rifle and using it properly.

But again to the OP, reloading a 357 or 44( For NORMAL loads lol) is a no-go right now.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by mickb » 12 Mar 2022, 6:57 pm

Your a more intrepid experimenter than me Blade,. Not knocking you either, each to his own. Just a caveat to anyone reading ultra low power loading is expert level, check barrel to make sure bullet exited, check chrony for weird variances. If it doesnt exit, you hammer it out. Cowboy action shooters developing loads have to do this not uncommonly. Thats with slippery cast bullets and approved pistol powders too. Anyone trying with rifle powders is in unknown territory. Jacketed bullets make bullets sticking much more likely too.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bladeracer » 12 Mar 2022, 8:21 pm

mickb wrote:Your a more intrepid experimenter than me Blade,. Not knocking you either, I know you make it work. Just a caveat to anyone reading remember ultra low power loading is expert level, check barrel to make sure bullet exited, check chrony for weird variances. If it doesnt exit, you hammer it out. Cowboy action shooters developing loads have to do this not uncommonly. Thats with slippery cast bullets and approved pistol powders too. Anyone trying with rifle powders is in unknown territory. Jacketed bullets make bullets sticking much more likely too.


I'm happy to experiment, and I'd rather do it and post the results, than have somebody less experienced get hurt trying new ideas.
I've had quite a few jacketed bullets too lazy to leave home, they push out easily enough with a rod :-)
It takes about 250fps for a jacketed bullet to overcome bore friction and push out the muzzle, I've never measured one lower than 275fps, and at that speed they're pretty much falling on the ground (that was in .243). I've found them while walking up to the target.

The issue with rifle powders in tiny cases behind heavy bullets is getting enough pressure to get decent velocity, the longer barrel helps with that. A duplex load of a grain or two of something faster on the primer is a big help in getting a charge of slower powder to burn. 9mm is a bust if you only have rifle powders - in my opinion. You can make it shoot but not in a very useful way, and it won't cycle a semi-auto pistol. But if you only have rifle powders and you need to kill something, you can make it do the job. And it'll be zero-recoil :-)

I haven't tried AR2206H in 12ga yet, which is something I'd like to do. I expect the issue to be even bigger due to the volume of the pipe and the greatly-reduced bore friction of the shotcup, but there's only one way I'll know for sure.

In the old days there was one powder that did everything, blackpowder. There's no reason a modern smokeless can't do everything as well, but it won't do everything very well, and some of it very poorly. I don't see it as any different to the guys that spend hours grinding "strike anywhere" match heads to make ammo work :-)
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Peter988 » 13 Mar 2022, 11:35 am

I am an oldie and have done most of my shooting in 222. That includes deer pigs and goats. I now shoot 223. I don’t understand this desire to get into the 300 and 400 calibres. Or into the more exotic and harder to source calibres. A 243 or 270 will do everything you ask.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bigpete » 13 Mar 2022, 11:48 am

Peter988 wrote:I am an oldie and have done most of my shooting in 222. That includes deer pigs and goats. I now shoot 223. I don’t understand this desire to get into the 300 and 400 calibres. Or into the more exotic and harder to source calibres. A 243 or 270 will do everything you ask.


Why not ? There's no replacement for displacement
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bladeracer » 13 Mar 2022, 12:13 pm

Peter988 wrote:I am an oldie and have done most of my shooting in 222. That includes deer pigs and goats. I now shoot 223. I don’t understand this desire to get into the 300 and 400 calibres. Or into the more exotic and harder to source calibres. A 243 or 270 will do everything you ask.


Perhaps if you try them you might understand why some people prefer poking larger-diameter holes in things.

For general usage I would agree that it's silly to use something you can't easily make ammo for. But for purely enjoying shooting, the variety available can be a lot of fun.

Some Youtubers I follow have recently gotten into very big things, like Nitro Express stuff, which costs anywhere from US$30 to $100 a shot apparently. I look at it and can't see the cost at all, but if I had one I'd be reloading for it. It's similar to .50BMG in using around 250gn of powder and 600gn to 1000gn bullets. You might be paying $5 or $10 apiece for the jacketed bullet, or you can cast your own for no cost at all. Load it back to about 1500fps with a 500gn bullet and you're basically shooting 12ga slugs.

But even shooting stuff that hasn't been made for many decades, like some of the early military chamberings is no issue at all once you've made yourself some brass. You could hunt for a lifetime with twenty pieces of 6.5x58mm brass and never be stuck looking for ammo (I haven't tried it myself yet but I suspect you could just shoot factory 6.5x55mm out of these rifles). The chambering doesn't matter at all if you want to go shooting. Worst case you might have to turn some brass up on a lathe out of bar stock.

The really old rimfires are their own issue, but you can make or buy brass that uses offset .22RF blanks instead of a centrefire primer.

Or if you never want to have to rely on even owning brass get into muzzleloading :-)
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bigpete » 13 Mar 2022, 12:59 pm

Or if you never want to have to rely on even owning brass get into muzzleloading :-)[/quote]

Now we're talking....
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Blr243 » 13 Mar 2022, 1:42 pm

Side ejection lever action 357
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by solarpak » 02 Apr 2022, 9:35 pm

7.62x39 or 30/30 Win - out to 200metres - its goodnight Dick!!
Howa Mini Action in the former or ant lever gun in the latter .......will do the job nicely

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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by womble » 03 Apr 2022, 4:15 am

I do like mickb’s evaluation.
I’m a 38 special/357 fanboy. Can shoot it all day long.
Cheap and easy and rugged, fast aiming lever actions. Easy to carry around all day. Simple open sights. Don’t care if i scratch it. Don’t need a sling. And they;re just good fun. Not loud, no recoil. It’s just an upscaled 22 really, that can punch. Can’t beat it.
Do tend to burn through a box of ammo pretty quickly, but thats ok.
Op asked for close range pigs and goats. There’s your winner. Keep it simple.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Wyliecoyote » 03 Apr 2022, 1:34 pm

I had and still have Ruskies that I use for hogs where all of them have been easy to load for and very mild to shoot. The only difference being all mine were built on 308 cal barrels where bullet selection was widened though all had the ability to run factory ammo in 0.311" without any adverse pressure. The only drawback is the cases being somewhat expensive to lose in the field.
More recently I took a 300 BO reamer and sunk it in deeper to Apache depth. From there the reloading process is simply running 223 brass one pass through Hornady BO dies wound out. Their eliptical expander ball makes it possible to do this in one pass and the same seater also wound out is used to complete the cartridge. The load data of the Ruskie applies directly as capacities are nearly identical.
Any 223 based rifle can be used as long as a maximum of 125 grain pills are used in rifles fitted with detachable magazines. Beyond that you need an internal magazine rifle feed for the longer OAL. The main advantage really is the disposable brass where any of the current 223 discards found in range bins can be used. The only caveat to that would be Remington as i found the necks brittle and often split during the sizing stage.
Blackout dies as stated can be used wound out but Apache dies are available, are not stock items and are expensive. The final cartridge is formed ready to shoot with no fireforming required. As I have done to a few, a stock BO can be converted or any 223 based rifle can be rebarreled. All that is needed is a BO or Whisper reamer.
The Apache will exceed Ruskie speeds slightly but exceeds the BO considerably using the same powders. Using CFE BLK the Apache can perform well in both speed and accuracy as it can with 2207.
Two pills i mainly use are the 125 SST and 125 TNT both at 2600 fps. Lighter pills, like with the Ruskie, don't exceed those speeds by much simply because you can't get enough powder in the case. So 125s are about optimum though I have loaded 150 grain flat nose pills meant for 30/30s to just over 2400 fps. Spitzer style 150 grain bullets or heavier are very magazine restrictive so really do not apply.

Now I can hear the detractors, the BO dies don't size the base at all (I used to do this before any expanding process in a FL 223 die) and the reamer taper cuts slightly oversize at that base. The truth is you can take any once fired 223 case you scavenge at the local range, one pass in a BO sizing die, load with bullet of choice, fire it in the paddock, eject it and keep on walking. It is cheap, low recoil and very effective on hogs and dogs and exactly why more and more shooters in the US are go through this process including in their ARs in methods as i described or with reamers and dies specific to this cartridge. The 30 WTs (30×40) are another popular option as well, but the brass cost with this proprietary case is still an issue and in an AR is just simply not viable.

PS The Apache is also known as 30 TCU, 30/223 and 30x45. The 30 WT or Wilson Tactical is a proprietary case sitting between the BO and Apache and contrary to the factory hype does not have the capability of the Apache but does have the capability to make that factory wealthy if it were to land a military contract for the AR platform.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by geoff » 03 Apr 2022, 3:18 pm

I just want to put this out there, and it might be a controversial opinion in these parts, but i susoect you're overthinking it here

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geoff
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by animalpest » 03 Apr 2022, 8:28 pm

Getting back to subject... I think the .44mag out of a lever is just perfect. Hard hitting, plenty of rounds in the mag and recoil is light.

The biggest issue with recoil is that they often have a hard buttplate. Change it.
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animalpest
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by in2anity » 03 Apr 2022, 8:37 pm

I’m reloading my little 300bo as we speak - and what a fun caliber! And so convenient that you can easily see the fall of the shot, even at close range. Me and my mate were hitting 500m steel the other day with it, because winds were quite favorable:

https://youtu.be/9urwpURf3aI

Totally not a good gun for serious target shooting, but it can be accurate when all factors are highly tuned, and the wind is fairly constant.

My BO shooting 125gr supers over a full case of 05 has more than DOUBLE the windage of my 308 target rifle running 155gr palmas :lol: but thats ok, I just double the distance factor in my head- 100m has a factor of x2, 200m=x4 and 300m=x6 (instead of distance/100-1 for TR). Then wind angle and wind speed factors remain the same as my normal TR calculation. Gets me bloody close to the bull on opening shot.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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