Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calibre?

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Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calibre?

Post by Rathie » 20 Jan 2022, 11:42 am

G'day most beautiful people,

As a quick update - the Tikka M55 in 6mmTCU is shooting very well. On trips to Ripley Range have fireformed nearly 200 cases and am now in the process of load development. FWIW fireform loads (when i bothered trying to shoot groups) easily stayed under 1"

OK - have a 20 gauge single barrel on order, but have now got the urge for a light weight and light recoil short range srub rifle for goats, piggs and the occasional fallow for use in the NSW New England tablelands. Those who familiar with the area know there can be long walks in very rough and steep country. Average shot is probably 25-50 metres and a long shot would be 150 metres.

Looking for a short bolt action (CZ 527, Howa Mini etc), short barrel (20") in a low recoiling cartridge.

I would prefer factory this time - one wildcat in the family is enough. Would consider a common wildcat if cases easy to make/procure.

Started my thinking with 7.62x39 - but there is not much in the way of projectile choice for reloading. Have thought about 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC II - would rather a bigger calibre and be a minimum of 7mm (but 6.8 SPC still interesting). 7mmBR or 30mmBR is a thought - i think factory cases are available.

300 savage looks interesting - though i suspect recoil would be very similar to a 308. I'm fine with 308 - but perhaps not on an outfit around 7 pounds.

This will be used by my daughters, visitors to the property etc etc - so id rather put something in their hands they can enjoy and not be afraid to learn to shoot with.

welcome all thoughts and suggestions, cheers rathie
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by disco stu » 20 Jan 2022, 11:58 am

30/30 would be a pretty close alternative to 7.62x39 wouldn't it?
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by scoot » 20 Jan 2022, 12:22 pm

300 blackout?
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by in2anity » 20 Jan 2022, 12:26 pm

Blackout all day long. It’s exactly what you need. Run supersonic heavies. Pretty much any 308 proji for the matter.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bigpete » 20 Jan 2022, 12:42 pm

44 mag lever action
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Rathie » 20 Jan 2022, 12:54 pm

300 blackout - interesting, had not had a look. Will do some research.

For the lever action suggestions - thanks for that. Lever had never really been on the radar - but a handy little 44 Mag with a red dot could be ideal.

I'm thinking 7.62x39 would be easiest given readily available ammo - but 7mmBR (and 30BR) easily obtainable shells - offers just that little bit more oomph.

If a Zaztava or CZ ( or similar) pops up in the right calibre or bolt face size ill attempt to grab it.

Don't mind the expense of a rebarrel as I tend to keep and use them.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by in2anity » 20 Jan 2022, 1:48 pm

Rathie wrote:300 blackout - interesting, had not had a look. Will do some research.

For the lever action suggestions - thanks for that. Lever had never really been on the radar - but a handy little 44 Mag with a red dot could be ideal.

I'm thinking 7.62x39 would be easiest given readily available ammo - but 7mmBR (and 30BR) easily obtainable shells - offers just that little bit more oomph.

If a Zaztava or CZ ( or similar) pops up in the right calibre or bolt face size ill attempt to grab it.

Don't mind the expense of a rebarrel as I tend to keep and use them.


.311 proji choice is much more limited. But yeah steel case ammo may be an option.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Wm.Traynor » 20 Jan 2022, 2:58 pm

Rathie,
Pardon me for saying so but if your daughters are learning, then they need to start with a 22lr.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Rathie » 20 Jan 2022, 3:07 pm

When i say 'learning' - they are all in their 20's and are quite proficient with a 22.

They are not 'seasoned' hunters are therefore not used to the recoil and report of 'larger' centerfires.

This is for them (and me) to have a suitable firearm AND have a lightweight bush rifle for my nearly 60 year old legs to go hunt for a day in the steep new england tablelands.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bigpete » 20 Jan 2022, 3:48 pm

Rathie wrote:When i say 'learning' - they are all in their 20's and are quite proficient with a 22.

They are not 'seasoned' hunters are therefore not used to the recoil and report of 'larger' centerfires.

This is for them (and me) to have a suitable firearm AND have a lightweight bush rifle for my nearly 60 year old legs to go hunt for a day in the steep new england tablelands.


Maybe stick with the bolt actions if thats what they're familiar with.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by LawrenceA » 20 Jan 2022, 4:42 pm

bigpete wrote:44 mag lever action


This
Or if you want to handload go 45-70 and load back until you dont want or need to.

A 30 cal can expand but a 45 dont shrink.
Having said that the 30-30 pretty well wiped out the 44-40 as a deer cartridge and still does the job really well.
One well placed shot is all it takes.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Jan 2022, 4:48 pm

As mentioned. 30.30 OR 308 reloaded with 130gr bullet using about 29 to 39gr of AR2206H. Nice mild load. :D

Edit: Load was not correct
Last edited by Oldbloke on 21 Jan 2022, 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by northdude » 20 Jan 2022, 7:05 pm

I got my daughter a 243
22 hornets and most things 6.5
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Hardcast » 20 Jan 2022, 7:28 pm

Pretty much any centrefire cartridge can be loaded with a 'reduced' load.
So why buy a special rifle to shoot animal 'X' but it won't shoot animal 'Y' .
As mentioned already, 308 or 30.06, 7mm, 6.5, etc can all be used this way, by children if necessary.
I've enjoyed reduced loadings as part of the shooting Sports for many years. Add to that Cast projectiles and there's another aspect of utilizing the same rifle to do many things. :thumbsup:
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bladeracer » 20 Jan 2022, 7:41 pm

.44Mag lever-action is going to be tough to beat for that, or maybe a .357Mag.

.303/7.62x39mm actually has quite a useful range of bullets for hunting, try the Hornady 123gn SST, 123gn SP, or the 150gn SP. Speer do a 150gn SP, and a 123gn Gold Dot SP, though I haven't seen the GD in Oz. Sierra do 125gn and 150gn SP. It's also worth trying some .308" bullets, sometimes they shoot fine. Barnes even do a copper TSX 150gn, but it might be too long to be useful in the 7.62x39mm cartridge. Berry's do cheap hardcast copper-plated 123gn bullets you can file the points off, but they're under-size for my .303/7.62x54R bores.

If you're loading your own though, 7mm-08 is the go. 145gn Speer SP in reduced loads is like a pussycat to shoot.


Rathie wrote:G'day most beautiful people,

As a quick update - the Tikka M55 in 6mmTCU is shooting very well. On trips to Ripley Range have fireformed nearly 200 cases and am now in the process of load development. FWIW fireform loads (when i bothered trying to shoot groups) easily stayed under 1"

OK - have a 20 gauge single barrel on order, but have now got the urge for a light weight and light recoil short range srub rifle for goats, piggs and the occasional fallow for use in the NSW New England tablelands. Those who familiar with the area know there can be long walks in very rough and steep country. Average shot is probably 25-50 metres and a long shot would be 150 metres.

Looking for a short bolt action (CZ 527, Howa Mini etc), short barrel (20") in a low recoiling cartridge.

I would prefer factory this time - one wildcat in the family is enough. Would consider a common wildcat if cases easy to make/procure.

Started my thinking with 7.62x39 - but there is not much in the way of projectile choice for reloading. Have thought about 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC II - would rather a bigger calibre and be a minimum of 7mm (but 6.8 SPC still interesting). 7mmBR or 30mmBR is a thought - i think factory cases are available.

300 savage looks interesting - though i suspect recoil would be very similar to a 308. I'm fine with 308 - but perhaps not on an outfit around 7 pounds.

This will be used by my daughters, visitors to the property etc etc - so id rather put something in their hands they can enjoy and not be afraid to learn to shoot with.

welcome all thoughts and suggestions, cheers rathie
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by disco stu » 20 Jan 2022, 7:55 pm

I have now heard 2 people say that the hardest kicking rifles they've shot have been 44 magnum. I was surprised by this. One of these guys hunts buffalo and builds a lot of big rifles for guys, so shoots a lot of really big cartridges
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bladeracer » 20 Jan 2022, 8:12 pm

disco stu wrote:I have now heard 2 people say that the hardest kicking rifles they've shot have been 44 magnum. I was surprised by this. One of these guys hunts buffalo and builds a lot of big rifles for guys, so shoots a lot of really big cartridges


Full-house 240gn loads do certainly have some recoil, but I don't find it anything near as bad as 12ga. or most milsurps. Hot loads with 300gn bullets might be painful though.
Since he intends to reload anyway he can tailor the loads down as far as he wants, 180gn bullets at 1750fps for example.

By calculation, a 240gn bullet at 1750fps in a 7lb Marlin1894 would give very similar recoil numbers to a 150gn .30-30 in a 7lb Win94 (I have both of these rifles but haven't fired them alongside each other for comparison at the shoulder).
But a 180gn XTP at 1750fps drops recoil numbers to around two-thirds that of the .30-30 or .44 240gn factory loads. Perhaps a little hotter than .357 factory 158gn loads, but with the heavier 180gn bullet.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bigpete » 20 Jan 2022, 8:15 pm

disco stu wrote:I have now heard 2 people say that the hardest kicking rifles they've shot have been 44 magnum. I was surprised by this. One of these guys hunts buffalo and builds a lot of big rifles for guys, so shoots a lot of really big cartridges

Sounds like crap to me. My rossi 92 was pleasant to shoot even running 310gn pills as hard as they can go,not even remotely comparable to my 2 45-70 rifles or my 458wm, and lighter to boot.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Jan 2022, 9:16 pm

bigpete wrote:
disco stu wrote:I have now heard 2 people say that the hardest kicking rifles they've shot have been 44 magnum. I was surprised by this. One of these guys hunts buffalo and builds a lot of big rifles for guys, so shoots a lot of really big cartridges

Sounds like crap to me. My rossi 92 was pleasant to shoot even running 310gn pills as hard as they can go,not even remotely comparable to my 2 45-70 rifles or my 458wm, and lighter to boot.


Tend to agree. Never shot one,
but looking at the load data the most I saw was 24 gr of powder. Should be a pussy-cat. Or am I missing something.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bigpete » 20 Jan 2022, 9:22 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
bigpete wrote:
disco stu wrote:I have now heard 2 people say that the hardest kicking rifles they've shot have been 44 magnum. I was surprised by this. One of these guys hunts buffalo and builds a lot of big rifles for guys, so shoots a lot of really big cartridges

Sounds like crap to me. My rossi 92 was pleasant to shoot even running 310gn pills as hard as they can go,not even remotely comparable to my 2 45-70 rifles or my 458wm, and lighter to boot.


Tend to agree. Never shot one,
but looking at the load data the most I saw was 24 gr of powder. Should be a pussy-cat. Or am I missing something.


I bet one of those guys was a certain gunsmith from Gove who talks that much crap I've blocked his phone number after 2 conversations with him....
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Jan 2022, 9:24 pm

Your a nasty man. :sarcasm: :clap:
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by bigpete » 20 Jan 2022, 9:34 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Your a nasty man. :sarcasm: :clap:


In those 2 conversations he contradicted himself that often and spoke so much crap about a subject I've spent 30 years doing that I just couldn't take him ringing me again
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by boingk » 20 Jan 2022, 10:56 pm

Yeah, a full-on 44 Mag round will give you a bit of boot if you're unprepared, especially in the light rifles they tend to be in. Nothing like the properly loaded big calibres, though, as above.

Where were we? Ah yes, light short-range puncher for visitors and the like.

357 Magnum lever action all the way. Cheap factory ammo, plenty of projectile choices, easy to cast and load for if thats your jam, very nice thing all around. Won't intimidate a young or new shooter, either, and you can always run 38 Special type loads which are easily available or made with loading gear.

The Rossi 92 will do you well, or the Citadel (same parent company as Rossi) Levtac 92 - the blacked-out tactical version of the Rossi 92 :D

Cheers - boingk.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by jovialjosie2002 » 21 Jan 2022, 4:58 am

"Started my thinking with 7.62x39 - but there is not much in the way of projectile choice for reloading."

Many people shoot 308 cal bullets in a 311 bore and they shoot just fine. You just have to find one that shoots good in a 7.62x39. Mine shoots the speer 308 125gr hp excellent.....shoits the sierra 308 125gr hunters terribly. Anyways 7.62x39 ammo is cheap....you can easily find PPU for around $1.
A Howa in 7.62x39 would be great or even a Ruger. I have a cz....and I definetly wouldn't recommend one of them.


My 44 Rossi with a 16 inch barrel and a steel buttplate can be very hard kicking sometimes. I just put a cheap slip on pad on it. I wouldn't recommend a 44 mag lever to a small person. Plus I can't seem to hit anything past 50m with iron sights on it. I hoping a new red dot I just bought last week will improve things.

I'd be getting a 357 mag Rossi...."nothing kicks lighter and hits harder"....they're light to carry, cheap to buy, cheap to feed. My only concern would be accuracy past 50m, especially if it has no scope. My Rossi started out pretty rough, however, it's smoothed out with use.
I personally wouldn't touch the marlins, if you research what happened when they were taken over by remington, it's pretty horrible. No wonder the quality went down, they basically turned it from a skilled workforce to a "monkey" workforce inorder to save $$$$$$.
If you wanted a Marlin and hence a scope, I'd wait and see if Ruger can "fix" marlin. I think it will be a while before you can get a decent Ruger built Marlin cause the shops will still be full of remlins they need to get rid of.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by KellyM » 21 Jan 2022, 5:36 am

30/30…simply proven performer…get ammunition anywhere….bugger all this yuppie stuff!
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by Rathie » 21 Jan 2022, 6:27 am

Wow, it is very humbling to have some of the luminaries of this site respond.

Cannot say thanks enough to all of you for your valuable and reasoned input. As a person who tends to completely over analyse every purchase - some good solid reasoning from you lot certainly helps.

Ok - now to comb the classifieds.

I’ll probs put the A Bolt Hornet on the market to appease the Minister for Finance.

No final decision yet - let’s see what the market provides.

Cheers and happy Friday
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by deanp100 » 21 Jan 2022, 7:30 am

Mate, there is no right answer. Your idea of 762 x39 is very good. So is a 30/30, pump 223/243/308. Bolt carbine in nearly any calibre 223 and above will work. They are just pigs and goats. If you miss a shot because you couldn’t work the bolt quick enough who cares. If you miss a shot because it is too far away for an open sighted lever who cares. They even out. Pick a gun that comes to the shoulder nicely and feels handy. If you enjoy the feel of it you’ll get good with it. If you find it doesn’t suit sell it. I wouldn’t be too worried about the bad marlin stories . They will work fine.
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by disco stu » 21 Jan 2022, 7:37 am

bigpete wrote:
I bet one of those guys was a certain gunsmith from Gove who talks that much crap I've blocked his phone number after 2 conversations with him....


We have a winner! I can't remember who the other person was who said it though. Probably very light rifles too. Didn't make sense to me though. I've never shot one, so didn't want to sound like it was fact or anything, but thought I should mention it seeing recoil was one issue being considered for this rifle
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by JimTom » 21 Jan 2022, 7:43 am

300 AAC
6.5 Grendel
7.62x39
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Re: Light weight light recoil close range pig and goat calib

Post by disco stu » 21 Jan 2022, 7:43 am

Just in case you hadn't seen this thread Rathie. Tight it was relevant to what you're asking

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16326
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