Sporterised Lee Enfields

[bladeracer]

I've seen plenty of "sporterised" .303's that mainly involve cutting back some of the wood, replacing the sights, and maybe cutting a bit off the muzzle, or even rebarrelled to something different entirely.

But I've seen some where the socket has been milled away to allow the action to drop into a conventional one-piece stock. Is that common in Oz or perhaps too specialised for most of the farmers that did this to their old bangers after the war?

[No1Mk3]

G'day bladeracer,
Very uncommon, wouldn't even rate 100-1. Even Parker Hale chose to simply sporterize the wood rather than re-machine the action, let alone our own gunshops making hunting rifles from old 303's, Cheers

[bladeracer]

G'day bladeracer,
Very uncommon, wouldn't even rate 100-1. Even Parker Hale chose to simply sporterize the wood rather than re-machine the action, let alone our own gunshops making hunting rifles from old 303's, Cheers

That explains why I haven't seen many then

[in2anity]

I briefly looked into this before, a quick google search yielded this:

5FB13452-A0C9-4DDF-A625-1E81EF6B8BD7.jpeg (80.65 KiB) Viewed 2640 times

AD8B6C9D-25AB-4BA2-B7E9-647EFF1056F5.jpeg (92.83 KiB) Viewed 2638 times

I wondered if there was some thought that it wouldn’t be conducive to accuracy, because it’s straying from the og design so heavily. But I have a feeling it would be accurate, provided it was close tolerances + headspace well and using a quality, heavy-ish match barrel.

I wonder about recoil bearing surface however.

[bladeracer]

I briefly looked into this before, a quick google search yielded this:

5FB13452-A0C9-4DDF-A625-1E81EF6B8BD7.jpeg

AD8B6C9D-25AB-4BA2-B7E9-647EFF1056F5.jpeg

I wondered if there was some thought that it wouldn’t be conducive to accuracy, because it’s straying from the og design so heavily. But I have a feeling it would be accurate, provided it was close tolerances + headspace well and using a quality, heavy-ish match barrel.

I wonder about recoil bearing surface however.

Yes, that's them. A more in-depth conversion from just being a military rifle adapted to sporting to use to actually turning it into a sporting rifle. The next step would be making an integral magazine to do away with the 10rd box. I suspect it would make a very nice rifle, but I've never come across one in the flesh. I can't see any issue with lacking accuracy as it has to be more rigid than the socket setup.

[in2anity]

What about recoil abutment Blade? Where does it go? I can see the stock splitting…

[bladeracer]

What about recoil abutment Blade? Where does it go? I can see the stock splitting…

It looks stronger than the socket to me, though you'd likely want to weld in something to replace the socket, or put a forward cross-lug through like Mauser did. The socket setup separates the recoil into the sides of the front stock and the butt stock itself. A conventional stock transmits all recoil straight back to the buttplate. The socket has the advantage in fabricating the wood, I don't think the design is of any recoil management benefit. Two-piece stocks went out of favour before the Lee Enfield was invented, it really only stuck around in levers and single-shot designs I think, for ease of manufacture and aesthetics. Inletting the stock around the action is a pain, much simpler to butt both ends up to the action, but it's not as strong.

[in2anity]

I guess the drawers would still be there, to take the recoil.

[straightshooter]

What about recoil abutment Blade? Where does it go? I can see the stock splitting…

It looks stronger than the socket to me, though you'd likely want to weld in something to replace the socket, or put a forward cross-lug through like Mauser did. The socket setup separates the recoil into the sides of the front stock and the butt stock itself. A conventional stock transmits all recoil straight back to the buttplate. The socket has the advantage in fabricating the wood, I don't think the design is of any recoil management benefit. Two-piece stocks went out of favour before the Lee Enfield was invented, it really only stuck around in levers and single-shot designs I think, for ease of manufacture and aesthetics. Inletting the stock around the action is a pain, much simpler to butt both ends up to the action, but it's not as strong.

????
The socket system is the strongest possible method of recoil management for a rifle.
Have you ever seen a split or broken buttstock in even the most beat up worn out Lee Enfield?
The function of the draws is to support and damp the highly flexible L E action. They are also involved in a lot of jiggery-pokery to do with accurising Lee Enfields.

[in2anity]

I feel we would have seen it a lot more over the last 50 years - if the removal of the socket was a valid approach. Heck you could cut it off with a hacksaw and then just bed it in some one piece stock - target shooters are king bubbas. IMO, a recoil lug would need to be added somewhere.

[Mini Hulk]

What about recoil abutment Blade? Where does it go? I can see the stock splitting…

It looks stronger than the socket to me, though you'd likely want to weld in something to replace the socket, or put a forward cross-lug through like Mauser did. The socket setup separates the recoil into the sides of the front stock and the butt stock itself. A conventional stock transmits all recoil straight back to the buttplate. The socket has the advantage in fabricating the wood, I don't think the design is of any recoil management benefit. Two-piece stocks went out of favour before the Lee Enfield was invented, it really only stuck around in levers and single-shot designs I think, for ease of manufacture and aesthetics. Inletting the stock around the action is a pain, much simpler to butt both ends up to the action, but it's not as strong.

????
The socket system is the strongest possible method of recoil management for a rifle.
Have you ever seen a split or broken buttstock in even the most beat up worn out Lee Enfield?
The function of the draws is to support and damp the highly flexible L E action. They are also involved in a lot of jiggery-pokery to do with accurising Lee Enfields.

IMHO: I think the socket is there due to the Lee Enfield's rear bolt lugs. Because of the rear bolt lugs, the force (recoil) of the round being fired is transmitted down the bolt and into the action quite far back compared to modern bolt guns. Recoil goes from the rear of the action through the socket and straight into the butt stock, and I think the the stock and action forward of the charging bridge probably has a surprisingly low amount of load put through it.

If you remove the socket, then you're going be relying on the the action screws and the small area at the back of the action (see below) to transmit the recoil to the stock. You could install some kind of larger front recoil lug, but then you're probably going to be loading up the action in ways it wasn't designed for, and may not see any benefit anyway.

5FB13452-A0C9-4DDF-A625-1E81EF6B8BD7.jpeg (80.71 KiB) Viewed 2457 times

[in2anity]

I thought the draws (not visible in the photo) are what absorb most of the recoil, not the socket. Whether the action will function properly without the socket, remains to be seen.

[bladeracer]

What about recoil abutment Blade? Where does it go? I can see the stock splitting…

It looks stronger than the socket to me, though you'd likely want to weld in something to replace the socket, or put a forward cross-lug through like Mauser did. The socket setup separates the recoil into the sides of the front stock and the butt stock itself. A conventional stock transmits all recoil straight back to the buttplate. The socket has the advantage in fabricating the wood, I don't think the design is of any recoil management benefit. Two-piece stocks went out of favour before the Lee Enfield was invented, it really only stuck around in levers and single-shot designs I think, for ease of manufacture and aesthetics. Inletting the stock around the action is a pain, much simpler to butt both ends up to the action, but it's not as strong.

????
The socket system is the strongest possible method of recoil management for a rifle.
Have you ever seen a split or broken buttstock in even the most beat up worn out Lee Enfield?
The function of the draws is to support and damp the highly flexible L E action. They are also involved in a lot of jiggery-pokery to do with accurising Lee Enfields.

I don't think anybody seriously considers the Lee Enfield design contributes to an accurate rifle though. It's fine for battlefield accuracy, but it struggles to offer similar hunting or competition accuracy as other designs of the era.

As for accurising them, sure you can make them more accurate than an unaccurised one, but it's still not great.

[JimTom]

My dad has one he has sporterised. First thing I’ll do when I inherit it is to convert it back into its former glory. It’s a great rifle, good headspace and fairly accurate to. Unfortunately it has been drilled and tapped and has a bridge mount on it.

[bigrich]

I feel we would have seen it a lot more over the last 50 years - if the removal of the socket was a valid approach. Heck you could cut it off with a hacksaw and then just bed it in some one piece stock - target shooters are king bubbas. IMO, a recoil lug would need to be added somewhere.

i think you nailed it with this comment . a lot of old customs were built on p14's,m17's and mausers for the recoil lug reason . that's not to say a LE can't be a wonderful all weather ,reasonably accurate ,durable rifle . i personally think the sportco 303-25 sporter is a great thing for a lot of shooting duties in australia

[dnedative]

Not common, a lot of work and the drawers still take most of the load.
A lot of No4T's fell victim to target shooters back in the day.

[in2anity]

Not common, a lot of work and the drawers still take most of the load.
A lot of No4T's fell victim to target shooters back in the day.

She’s a beauty. I bet it shoots better than most around here would assume. Maybe not “only possibles” but still high 40s if you’re doing your bit.

[bladeracer]

Not common, a lot of work and the drawers still take most of the load.
A lot of No4T's fell victim to target shooters back in the day.

She’s a beauty. I bet it shoots better than most around here would assume. Maybe not “only possibles” but still high 40s if you’re doing your bit.

I would assume it would out-shoot most more conventionally-sporterised Lee Enfields.

[in2anity]

I would assume it would out-shoot most more conventionally-sporterised Lee Enfields.

For sure - but mainly because of the target barrel.

[bladeracer]

I would assume it would out-shoot most more conventionally-sporterised Lee Enfields.

For sure - but mainly because of the target barrel.

Very difficult to quantify, but I reckon the one-piece stock will play a relevant part.