Running in a new rifle

[offtarget]

Is running in a new rifle really needed?

I have talked to a lot of older shooters that never have even heard of it.

Or is it just modern day rifles that need it?

[Chronos]

There seems to be a lot of passionate debate over "run in" of barrels so i won't tell you one way or the other is correct. lots of target shooters will methodically run in a match grade target barrel, lots of hunters shooting low cost factory barrels tell you it's a waste of time. Make of that what you will.

However I will point out that a rifle barrel will shoot differently when it's new, slightly worn and worn out. it will also shoot differently when it's clean and when it's dirty. a barrel will also wear differently when its dirty, i try to shoot mine when it's clean because i have read about accelerated throat wear when excessive fouling is present.

I tend to run a quick shoot/clean/repeat procedure on a new gun, firstly it gives me a chance to get to know the gun on the first outing but secondly it allows me to monitor copper fouling in the bore which gives me a guide as to how badly it fouls and how often it needs a good clean.

Chronos

[Apollo]

Is running in a new rifle really needed?. I have talked to alot of older shooters that never have even heard of it.
All is it just moden day rifles that need it?

I suppose I would come into the category of " older shooters" having had firearms on and off for at least the last 50 years if not longer.

Back in the old days running in a barrel was not even thought of in the true sence but it certainly was clean a brand new rifle barrel. There was no interest in target shooting but it was still clean first, mount a scope or fire a shot to set open sights and that may have been it, then clean and put away. No dozens of plinking rounds one after another just for fun. So, next time it came out it may have been a shot or two then cleaned. It may have been fire a shot to check zero or the sight setting and out for a hunt and shoot nothing.

What I'm getting at here is that in one way I was running in the barrel without knowing it. I can remember that accuracy in my mind improved over the first period of use then was pretty much stable. If I had have just gone out and fired hundreds of plinking rounds for some reason then it may have been a different story.

These days I have more Match Grade barrels than factory standard, from new I can see what happens to a new Match Grade barrel from the first shot. I don't waste shots so setting up a new barrel, setting the scope all starts with one shot on a 100m target to set scope zero, Then I clean, the second shot is the adjustment to make zero, a clean and the third shot confirms I'm set at 100m so a clean again the the third shot to set my intended longer range zero for target/hunting/varminting. With a good Match Grade barrel the copper fouling I have found has stopped and I will call it "Run In".

I do the same with my own or a mate's factory standard barrels. There is no waste and if it looks good as far as copper fouling then the rest is done with normal field shooting. In one case the copper fouling was so bad the rifle just was not accurate or consistant with each shot (Marlin 336) so just more shooting was required over a period of time. Some 50 odd rounds that shoots a lot better. Call it run in or just trying to establish a reliable accuracy in the field. I won't be buying a Marlin any day soon.

It's really always been around but the statement of running in a barrel has come more to light over recent times of better communications (internet) of different people talking about firearms. One shot for ten, then 3 shot groups, then five shot groups all with a clean in between is more from target shooters than anything else. Do I believe in it for a near $1,000 very high quality target barrel...Yes..!!! I would not treat a new barrel any other way and it's no loss in the way of wear or anything because all those shots are setting up accuracy standards for the outfit's tune.

My version only.

[Hatter]

The talk of shooting 100 or 200 rounds or whatever some different people suggest before 'using your rifle' properly is rubbish IMO.

Buy. Clean it real good. Start shooting it like you want to.

[Baldrick314]

I've always followed a 50 round break in procedure with new rifles which is aimed at smoothing out imperfections in the bore from the barrel making process.

Whether it works or not I couldn't tell you cos I've never done it any other way but the rifles I've used this procedure on are accurate and don't seem to collect much copper fouling so I'm happy to do it

[Lorgar]

I mostly agree with Hatter.

A very good clean from the factory to get out the grease etc. from storage, then start shooting.

I can see a little merit in doing a quick run in like Chronos mentioned. Put one box of ammo through then clean, after that shooting as normal. None of this 1 shot clean, 1 shot clean, 1 shot clean for a hundreds rounds... Waste of time and ammo IMO.

I got a new Tikka for hunting a few months ago. The first 4 shots out of it shot under 0.4 MOA, the next groups were just as good.

Why waste hundreds of bullets "wearing it in" when it shoots like that already? After I was sighted in I was away and hunting, no running in.

2c.

[Humir]

offtarget,

Unfortunately you won't get a definitive answer for this, there's just lots of opinion and people sharing their experience.

AFAIK, no one has ever done a side-by-side of a broken in and non-broken in barrel where that can show that there was a measurable benefit in doing it?

Some people do it because it feels right for them, obviously others don't both like a few mentioned above.

I'd just clean your new rifle and shoot it and see what the results is. If you're happy with how it shoots then there you go.

[Hercl]

From another topic on this...

There was some old-school gunsmith in the states who mostly did barrel replacement work, he reckons he started the whole "shoot 500 rounds before you start 'shooting'" years ago so that people went through their barrels faster.

Burning through all those shots knocks 20% (or whatever) off the life of your centre fire barrel in a flash = 20% more frequent business for the gunsmith.

I still can't remember this guys name, grrr. If anyone else knows what I'm talking about let me know. I'd like to have the guys name again.

[Lorgar]

How'd you go with your new .308 BTW Chronos?

Or was my feedback totally useless?

[Mark TAC]

From another topic on this...

There was some old-school gunsmith in the states who mostly did barrel replacement work, he reckons he started the whole "shoot 500 rounds before you start 'shooting'" years ago so that people went through their barrels faster.

Burning through all those shots knocks 20% (or whatever) off the life of your centre fire barrel in a flash = 20% more frequent business for the gunsmith.

I still can't remember this guys name, grrr. If anyone else knows what I'm talking about let me know. I'd like to have the guys name again.

I know who / what you mean .... on the tip of my tongue but can't recall his name

OTOH I am pretty sure I read an article that debunked that claim, or contacted him and he recanted his story. Maybe ChuckHawks.com or an article by Craig Boddngton in Rifle Shooter mag?

[Chronos]

How'd you go with your new .308 BTW Chronos?

Or was my feedback totally useless?

LOL, not at all. PM inbound

Chronos

[Hercl]

Mark,

That's all I can remember about it to be honest.

Haven't got any 'proof' on the subject.

[SendIt]

Is running in a new rifle really needed?

I have talked to a lot of older shooters that never have even heard of it.

Or is it just modern day rifles that need it?

What rifle are we talking about exactly?

[offtarget]

Tikka T3 forest in 223.

And yes I'm a very new shooter. Had my 22 for over a year and had lots of fun with it.

Thought it was time for a small upgrade that wouldn't cost me my house to run.

[beerhog]

When I have run in a barrel cleaning it every shot I have been amazed at how much copper comes out after 1 shot. After 20 or so the barrel no longer seems to collect much copper at all after running it in.

I only wonder if you were to run 20 rounds through without a clean would a copper layer build up that would require a huge amount of cleaning to completely remove or even lay down a layer that will never budge at all.

[Lorgar]

Tikka T3 forest in 223.

Honestly mate I think it comes down to if you feel the need to do it. Or will worry about not doing it.

Like I said, my Tikka 7mm-08 shot under .4 MOA out of the box.

I have a mate with a Tikka .243 and 300 win mag, and he got similar results.

I don't see why yours should be any different.

Over to you.

[Elek]

I only wonder if you were to run 20 rounds through without a clean would a copper layer build up that would require a huge amount of cleaning to completely remove or even lay down a layer that will never budge at all.

However thick it is, it's still just copper.

It will always come of with solvent. An extra application may be needed, but it will always come off.

[Norton]

If in doubt, just put a box through while shooting it normally to start. Then clean and start again.

I can understand a little breaking, no idea though why guys just send dozens of rounds into the dirt though to break in barrels without shooting at anything though.

You might as well get the extra practice behind the trigger then just be loading and firing it with no effort.

[offtarget]

if i was to clean it after every shot how much of a clean do i do?
The way the shop tells me to clean it, takes about 25 minutes. So sone shot 25min clean for 5 shots then 3 shot then 25 min clean
At that rate i will spend all day shooting air

[Baldrick314]

if i was to clean it after every shot how much of a clean do i do?
The way the shop tells me to clean it, takes about 25 minutes. So sone shot 25min clean for 5 shots then 3 shot then 25 min clean
At that rate i will spend all day shooting air

25 minutes to clean after one shot? Jeez, you'll scrub half your barrel out.

Just apply solvent to the bore, run a brush through a few times and patch out. Repeat if necessary.

Also to avoid wasting time/ammo you should sight your rifle in while you're doing your break in

[Chronos]

if i was to clean it after every shot how much of a clean do i do?
The way the shop tells me to clean it, takes about 25 minutes. So sone shot 25min clean for 5 shots then 3 shot then 25 min clean
At that rate i will spend all day shooting air

25 minutes to clean after one shot? Jeez, you'll scrub half your barrel out.

Just apply solvent to the bore, run a brush through a few times and patch out. Repeat if necessary.

Also to avoid wasting time/ammo you should sight your rifle in while you're doing your break in

problem with that is the chemical reaction used by a few copper solvents takes 10-13 mins to work, so by rushing the process you never really remove the serious copper fouling (i'm talking about centerfire rifles here of course)

take a look at your solvents instructions if in doubt

Chronos

[Baldrick314]

problem with that is the chemical reaction used by a few copper solvents takes 10-13 mins to work, so by rushing the process you never really remove the serious copper fouling (i'm talking about centerfire rifles here of course)

take a look at your solvents instructions if in doubt

Chronos

Still shouldn't take near half an hour to clean though. Takes say a minute to apply and scrub the bore, allow 10 minutes for it to do it's job, another minute to patch out and you should be good to go

[Chronos]

i agree in part but if i do a full clean with a full wet patch, soak, nylon brush, wet patch, soak and dry patch out for powder then 2-3 cycles the same or similar of copper solvent i'd be looking at an hour but i'm doing other stuff while thats going on. and that would only be on a "special occasion" LOL

Chronos

[chilliman]

if running in a barrel is it necessary to patch out the solvent? why not fire, apply solvent, then brush and repeat? will firing with 'unpatched' solvent in the barrel have any adverse affect on anything? sorry if these are dumb questions.

[Baldrick314]

i agree in part but if i do a full clean with a full wet patch, soak, nylon brush, wet patch, soak and dry patch out for powder then 2-3 cycles the same or similar of copper solvent i'd be looking at an hour but i'm doing other stuff while thats going on. and that would only be on a "special occasion" LOL

Chronos

Ah, I'm only talking one pass through. I remember when I was breaking my rifle in I could get through 4 cleans per shooting session. The shooting sessions at our range are approximately 40 minutes long and I'd be doing the 4th cleaning during the break.

When I'm cleaning my rifles for storage though it takes me around 40 minutes per rifle to clean the barrel, chamber, bolt and oil them up for storage.

[offtarget]

This is a break down of what the store has told me to do

Carbon remval, Hoppes 9, brush let soakfor 5 min then patch clean,

copper remval
Sweets solution, brush soak for 15 min patch clean

shot once clean as above for 5 shots
shot 3 clean as above for 3 shots.

As most of you have just talk about copper is the carbon part a waste of time

[Chronos]

This is a break down of what the store has told me to do

Carbon remval, Hoppes 9, brush let soakfor 5 min then patch clean,

copper remval
Sweets solution, brush soak for 15 min patch clean

shot once clean as above for 5 shots
shot 3 clean as above for 3 shots.

As most of you have just talk about copper is the carbon part a waste of time

Sounds pretty close, I'm not sure I'd leave the sweets in for the full 15 mins, I'd rather do 2 X 10 minute runs cleaning out in between. The reason is that sweets 7.62 is a quite aggressive (but effective) ammonia based cleaner that will damage the bore if left in.

Probably the main reason most done talk about carbon is because in general its easy to remove with a simple soak and a scrub.

Copper in the other hand can be difficult to remove , particularly from bores in poor condition or badly machined. My K98k Israeli Mauser copper fouls terribly, while my match grade target barrels rarely show signs of copper fouling, IVe changed to copper free jags so I can identify and copper in that barrel and it usually takes just one cycle to remove all the copper

Chronos

[jays]

copper remval
Sweets solution, brush soak for 15 min patch clean

You can't use Sweets on all metals though right?

I can't remember which way, but you can use it on stainless, but not blued? (or vice versa, I forget)

?

[Baldrick314]

I haven't heard about not being able to use it on certain types of barrel.

Just don't leave it in too long

[Warrigul]

I haven't heard about not being able to use it on certain types of barrel.

Just don't leave it in too long

Apparently the ammonia in Sweets copper solvent can affect stainless barrels by leaching out component metals in the alloy - I can neither say this is true or not as I can't test it, but just to be very safe I have taken the precaution of only leaving it in for 15 minutes at a time with stainless and as my stainless barrels don't hold copper as badly as my steel ones copper solvent isn't necessary every time I clean them.