First .223 bolt action

[newgunner]

Hi guys and gals, fairly new to rifle shooting and want a 223 to step up from .22

I have found 3 I like:
Tikka T3 Varmint
Remington 700 SPS Varmint
Savage model 12 FCV

Which is the better rifle to buy? I understand each person is different in setup etc. but for accuracy, reliability etc.

Which is the best to go for?

Thanks.

[petemacsydney]

T3, but i'm biased...

[RDobber]

Another vote for Tikka here.

Honestly any of those will shoot as accurately as the next with the right load.

Like say, personal preference is a factor.

[Seconds]

I assume this is for target shooting as you're looking at all heavy barrels?

Or is this for varmints?

[Chronos]

What is the rifle going to be used for?

The reason I ask is do you really want the weight of a varmint barrel? It can be a curse if you're walking around with it.

Are you going to want a detachable magazine?

Are you looking for a base rifle to build up or something to leave as is?

Chronos

[newgunner]

I am using it for target range shooting only, no hunting.

Hence the heavy barrel for better heat distribution, it will have a small detachable magazine.

[Chronos]

Firstly the Remington doesn't come with a detachable box magazine so you'd have to add a few hundred to have that fitted

That leaves the savage and the Tikka. The savage is limited to a 1:12" twist meaning you'd probably be restricted to bullets under 60gr where as the Tikka comes in 1:12" or 1:8" twist meaning with the 1:8 you could run high BC bullets up to around 90gr.

Both have good triggers, the Tikka can be lowered to around 12oz with the addition of a yodave trigger spring for about $17.

No idea on prices of the two however.

I did own a 1:8" twist tikka varmint which shot very well with 69gr Nosler CC's and BM2, one of those rifles I wish I had never sold

Chronos

[Apollo]

There is a rifle you should seriously add to your list. For two reasons, one it is suitable as a general carry and two it will perform as a target rifle.

That is a CZ 527 Laminate Varmint. It comes as 1:9 twist so you can use near 75gr target bullets but preferably 70gr maximum like the Berger 70gr VLD. It is in between a heavy varmint barrel like the Tikka/Sako and their Lite Hunter contour barrel. It has a stock that is semi flat in the forend and rides bags very well. It comes standard with a single set trigger so you have the choice of a light trigger for target or a hunting version. It is reasonably priced, a guess at around $1,300 but I have not looked for recent prices but that makes it cheaper than a Tikka Varmint with a Single Set Trigger and a lot cheaper than a Sako.

They are Controlled Round Feed so that makes it hard to feed as a single shot for target if you aren't allowed to load a magazine but since the magazine is a very tight fit you simply release and lower the magazine a couple of mills and you can sit a round on top and it will push feed. Takes a little practise to get the right setting but easy.

You can use bullets as light as 30 grains with great accuracy but having owned one for many years I will say that it really shines with a 52gr weight bullet and will make any Tikka T3 or Sako owner wonder what you have got. How do I know, from owning the opposition but my Sako is just that, a Sako.

I am not a liker of Remington other than the custom built / modified target version I own.

Savage, not owned but same twist rate and I'm going to give our Range Officer a run for his money since he won best group last Mudgee shoot with his fire forming loads and crazy trigger.

My view....!!!!

[newgunner]

Sorry, the savage I'm looking at is the Savage 12 LRPV model, which comes in a 1:9 twist and a 1:12 twist and also has a fluted barrel.

Tikka T3 is still pretty much on top of my list though for cost and reputation.

Thanks for all your replies so far.

[Chronos]

Ok, that sounds better. I just Googled the rifle in your OP and the Remington site said 12 twist.

Sounds like the same rifle Apollo is talking about, the owner seems happy with it.

Chronos

[Blu333]

My first rifle above .22lr was tikka supervarmint chambered in .223 coupled with a leupold vx-2 6-18*42 scope. I could put 3-5 shots inside a 10 cent piece the first day I took it to the range at 100m.(obviously after sighting it in lol) Not a bad word to say about it.

[Blu333]

Mines 1:8 twist as well.

[Apollo]

If you have the Tikka T3 on top of the list I hope you realise the nice Single Set Trigger for target shooting is an optional expensive extra, Even as standard any of those you list are basically set for hunting with a heavy trigger, all different.

If you can, at least try and dry fire each one to see what the trigger pull feels like. In my view the Savage is rather strange and needs some getting use to. It needs to suit you so if you can feel, handle, dry fire or even better have a shot out of each if someone at your range has those being considered.

[Apollo]

After some sighters, testing 52gr Nosler Shots....cheap bullets. 100 metres, 10 rounds in the group, bet you can't count them. CZ 527 Varmint Laminate but it has done better.

The grid lines are 1.00" (25mm) and the target circle is 2.00" (50mm).....

[Chronos]

After some sighters, testing 52gr Nosler Shots....cheap bullets. 100 metres, 10 rounds in the group, bet you can't count them. CZ 527 Varmint Laminate but it has done better.

The grid lines are 1.00" (13mm) and the target circle is 2.00" (25mm).....

1.00" is 25.4mm and 2.00" is 50.8mm, maybe you meant this

Chronos

[Apollo]

Opps, Sorry mate.... Now corrected....!!!!!

Must be the drugs, same reason I forgot about your "Factory Rifle" challenge last week and didn't do any reloading or bring the CZ 527......

I've already spoken to Hilux2003 and the challenge is on next month at 200m.....

Savage v CZ but I don't have the same bullets he's using, will have to go lighter or heavier.

[newgunner]

thanks apollo and others
, i will check out the cz 527 varmint
i have dry fired 3 tikka t3's,the lite,varmint and super varmint
dry fired and live fired a remington 700 varmint sf ,was very nice
have also dry fired the savage 12,was nice also

all reviews are very welcome,best way to learn about things i found is to ask people who have used the guns etc

cheers

[Apollo]

"newgunner" please do, especially the Single Set Triggers, they are different.

BTW, I am a pretty good shot with some 50 odd years of experience so I would not expect others to duplicate. I have instructed my mate and his son and I will say they have absorbed all the info and are now much better shots both shooting targets and varminting now doing head shots only.

I wish you well in your quest, what you end up with is your choice and I hope you are more than satisfied with your choice.

[newgunner]

Thanks again Apollo, I'll check out the single fire triggers. I'll talk to my gunsmith about them.

Take it easy

[cruze82]

I like the Remington VTR or SPS but I'm a Remington fan so take what you can from the forum but holding and shooting a gun is what's its about.

At the end of the day it's what you are happy with every shooter is a different size and shape (big hands,little hands fat cheeks boney cheeks) it's what works for you.

So get friendly with the guys at the range and shoot some guns.

[Warrigul]

thanks apollo and others
, i will check out the cz 527 varmint
i have dry fired 3 tikka t3's,the lite,varmint and super varmint
dry fired and live fired a remington 700 varmint sf ,was very nice
have also dry fired the savage 12,was nice also

all reviews are very welcome,best way to learn about things i found is to ask people who have used the guns etc

cheers

I am going through this at the moment, I have sold the Howa (pending funds) after much badgering- there was NOTHING wrong with it but just time for a change. It will mainly be a 300m rifle using 55 grain projectiles, it will be used for work and probably lent out a bit like the Howa has been and will be used as a 500m target rifle by others.

I tried the T3 varmint in .223 and was very impressed, the magazine is fault free and smooth feeding. I have had a long association with Tikkas.

I tried the CZ but didn't like the way the steel magazine fed, this is the second CZ centerfire that I wasn't happy with the way it fed- it isn''t the controlled round feed but the way they come out of the mag. I took it home and had a play but gave it back. I am afraid the Tikka magazine setup seems to be better.

The tikka shot better using factory rounds which for me at the moment is important.

But perhaps the biggest factor for me is the Tikka is available with a stainless barrel, I have had blued and stainless and stainless definately are superior needing less cleaning per round count and lasting longer. I could be wrong but was told he CZ aren't available in stainless?

As far as triggers go I don't think a light set trigger is any substitute for proper trigger control, I learnt to shoot distance centerfire with a fullbore weighted trigger and lightening off to the F class minimum didn't improve scores at all.

I will probably go a Varmint instead of a super varmint, I don't mind the stocks.

I desperately want to try a Savage as the 26" stainless barrel is appealing, I am in no rush to put any money down before I do anything(I still have the howa for a while). As the savage is starting to appeal it indicates I am heading more towards a rifle with a range bias again rather than hunting.

I have no interest in Remington whatsoever and cannot give an unbiased opinion.

Too many choices amongst many good rifles.

[tactice]

I have a pair of Remington 700 VTR's with both shoot great for me.

There is a bit of negative feedback on recent Remington's that it can be a bit of luck whether you get and accurate or less-accurate one.

Both mine are fine though

[Tinked]

Sorry, the savage I'm looking at is the Savage 12 LRPV model, which comes in a 1:9 twist and a 1:12 twist and also has a fluted barrel.

Tikka T3 is still pretty much on top of my list though for cost and reputation.

A well deserved reputation too.

The Tikka is $1,200.

The 12 LRPV is like $2,100 or something, right?

My money would be on the Tikka. Spend that left over $900 and get yourself some real nice glass to go on top of it.

[Westy]

X2 on the Tikka I got one and it's awesome shooter was going to get rid of her but I'm still deciding has a vx3 6.5 x 20 on top nice rifle alround

[newgunner]

Thanks Westy, for the vote on the Tikka.

I tried sending you a pm, not sure if it got through.

This site is a bit confusing compared to the archery forums.

Cheers.

[Blackened]

I tried sending you a pm, not sure if it got through.

This site is a bit confusing compared to the archery forums.

Hmm? Where are you getting stuck?

Click the PM icon underneath someone's name and it will take you to the message form.

Type the message, click send, you should get a confirmation.

The message stays in your 'outbox' which you can see until the person opens it.

That should do it for you...

[Monty]

So get friendly with the guys at the range and shoot some guns.

People are often happy to give you a couple of shots of their setup. Throw them a few coins for ammo costs or whatever.

Having a few shots with your possible options is definitely worthwhile if you have the opportunity.

[tactice]

I like the Remington VTR or SPS but I'm a Remington fan

Both my VTR's have always been good.

If/when I get a bench rifle it will probably be the SPS Tactical I think too.

[Chronos]

Both my VTR's have always been good.

If/when I get a bench rifle it will probably be the SPS Tactical I think too.

I take it yours aren't among the Remington rifles recently recalled for trigger replacement?

I've got two mates who both own remingtons and both have been recalled to fix trigger issues. I think they both plan to fit an aftermarket trigger rather than send their guns away for an unknown period of time.

Chronos

[Westy]

Have you considered a Howa 1500??? Half the price and they sure shoot every bit as good as a Tikka!!!!!