Considering a 44 mag lever

[mickb]

I have had a long love affair with the 357. What I would like though is a little more thump with subsonics and there is a difference between an expanding 125-135gn 38 special bullet and a 180-200 grain 44 mag bullet on a pig at night. The other one is occasional shots on horses and maybe scrub bulls if I start hunting north again. 44 mag with JHP nope, but a 300 grain hardcast at 1600fps. yep. While its no 375H&H I know a fella in the NT uses similar load on banteng.

Next question is do you sell off your considerable 357 component load to fund it or keep it all and sell for an arm and a leg when shortages get worse . My problem is I dont like accumulating guns, when I rarely get a new one, its to replace another. its 1:21 in the morning which is when these decisions need to be made.

[womble]

Lots of 45-70 second hand market. Have’nt been flogged, not a western action gun.

[wrenchman]

i am getting great results with spear 158 flat point and h110 powder from my lever action henry if you choose to go with the 44 you will like it but you will miss the 357 lots of fun with the 38s and cheeper to shoot if you go factory round

[Blr243]

I tried lighter loads initially in 300 blk but it didn’t work so I tried lighter loads in a 450 bushmaster but it still did not work ( useing 300 grain pistol bullets on pigs ). I realised that without decent speed it was unethical no matter how good my shot placement was ...The muzzle energy simply wasn’t there now I’m useing a 4570 with 500 grains but not yet tested In The field. I home cast for the 4570 to ensure expansion with my soft lead mix but I was having accuracy and leading issues so I will have to start powder coating to see if I can solve the problem. I don’t want to start useing hard cast

[Blr243]

I tried lighter loads initially in 300 blk but it didn’t work so I tried lighter loads in a 450 bushmaster but it still did not work ( useing 300 grain pistol bullets on pigs ). I realised that without decent speed it was unethical no matter how good my shot placement was ...The muzzle energy simply wasn’t there now I’m useing a 4570 with 500 grains but not yet tested In The field. I home cast for the 4570 to ensure expansion with my soft lead mix but I was having accuracy and leading issues so I will have to start powder coating to see if I can solve the problem. I don’t want to start useing hard cast

[Blr243]

1100-1200 type loads were not fast killing via hydraulic shock , they were more like a broad head blood loss method .... I was trying to keep the noise down to protect my dogs hearing but now to ensure quick clean kills I use conventional high speed ammo. My dog is tied to my waist on a ten foot lead. Just prior to taking the shot I wrap the lead short around my ankles and lay down to shoot prone off a bipod. This ensures he is as far behind me as possible for the noise factor

[Blr243]

I tried lighter loads initially in 300 blk but it didn’t work so I tried lighter loads in a 450 bushmaster but it still did not work ( useing 300 grain pistol bullets on pigs ). I realised that without decent speed it was unethical no matter how good my shot placement was ...The muzzle energy simply wasn’t there now I’m useing a 4570 with 500 grains but not yet tested In The field. I home cast for the 4570 to ensure expansion with my soft lead mix but I was having accuracy and leading issues so I will have to start powder coating to see if I can solve the problem. I don’t want to start useing hard cast

[mickb]

Blr243 we are in the same camp regards percieved noise. I like what you do to preserve your dogs hearing.

[bigpete]

Definitely get a 44 mag. Or even better a 45 long colt and reload or a 454 casull.

[mickb]

i am getting great results with spear 158 flat point and h110 powder from my lever action henry if you choose to go with the 44 you will like it but you will miss the 357 lots of fun with the 38s and cheeper to shoot if you go factory round

Wish we could get that powder here mate. Aus powders are AR2205 in this class, and whatever stocks of Alliant Lilgun, 2400 and 300-MP can still be found. Also Alliant 410 the 410ga powder which runs slightly faster than 2400, still a good magnum driver in big pistol cases.

[animalpest]

I have had a long term love affair with the .44 mag. Have taken plenty of buff and scrub bulls with it. The Winchester 240gr worked well.

My favourite rifle was a Ruger Deerslayer.

[mickb]

I tried lighter loads initially in 300 blk but it didn’t work so I tried lighter loads in a 450 bushmaster but it still did not work ( useing 300 grain pistol bullets on pigs ). I realised that without decent speed it was unethical no matter how good my shot placement was ...The muzzle energy simply wasn’t there now I’m useing a 4570 with 500 grains but not yet tested In The field. I home cast for the 4570 to ensure expansion with my soft lead mix but I was having accuracy and leading issues so I will have to start powder coating to see if I can solve the problem. I don’t want to start useing hard cast

Hi BLR243, I think I remember you doing this. 300gn pistol bullets you mentioned usually meant for 454 casull speeds and wont open at low power. There are only a few offerings that will being the 45 acp and 45 colt specific JHP. You wont get lights out kills with this power level no, its more like pistol or muzzleloader hunting, still better than broadheads though. Regards your 45-70 did you slug the barrel to get the exact diameter?

[mickb]

I have had a long term love affair with the .44 mag. Have taken plenty of buff and scrub bulls with it. The Winchester 240gr worked well.

My favourite rifle was a Ruger Deerslayer.

Pretty good endorsement right there, thanks animal pest. also big rich and others.

Now to just decide the platform. Wish I could find a 24" barrel octagonal Rossi, almost non existant at the minute. A bunch of 20" came onto the market it looks like recently but not the 24. I prefer longer barrels. Most other brands are 20" except for uberti 73's which arent the strongest action to house 44mag.

Anyone want to buy 357 brass and bullets with a bulk discount pm me.( unless its not allowed on this site)

[Blr243]

No I never did slug my bore of the 4570 I should because my 4570 accuracy prob could be bullets too small , barrel already leaded or too soft a pill not engaging rifleing Or lead stripping off easily because it’s too soft ... it shoots commercial hard cast fine

[bigrich]

well i'll weigh in on this . i'll say straight up i haven't used lever guns on game but i've owned and loaded for a few . most of the property's i've hunted on have been scrub to open grazing land , so i always took bolt guns for better long range use . i've had marlins in 45-70, 30-30, 357 and 44mag. as well as model 94's in 30-30 . the model 94 carries and points extremely well , and one , a 64A would shoot one moa at 100 easy . half magazine and no barrel bands would've contributed to this . my marlin 45-70 was a laminate, large lever, guide gun , ballard rifling, and functioned well with acceptable accuracy . marlin 30-30 was a earlier model and was as good, but with a scope was as heavy as a bolt gun . so i got a bolt gun in 308

the 357 marlin i had , after i de-burred the action was the slickest, smoothest feeding lever gun i owned . accuracy was quite good as well . used to get over 1800fps with little gun with clover leafs at 50 meters of a rest . now ,the 44 mag marlin i had wasn't that accurate . it has the same barrel profile as the 357. so 357 has a thick barrel wall , 44mag is a bit thin . the other thing is because the 44 mag is a fatter case than 357 , the cartridge has to load at a steeper angle. check american forums and feed issues with the marlin 44's aren't uncommon . some de-burring and tweaks improved this a lot . on all my marlins a "wild west guns trigger happy kit" gave all my marlins a great trigger and was easy to fit if your mechanically minded . i never found the need to modify triggers on any of my pre 80's model 94's . they were good as they came .

if i was looking for a 44mag rifle , i'd hunt around for a ruger 44mag bolt gun . JMHO

[bigrich]

"the barn" on used guns has a ruger 77/44 in a syn stock . they don't make these any more , so if you want one , be quick if they turn up

[straightshooter]

I have 2 Marlins in 44 mag and I am familiar with their foibles. But in my opinion they are superior to a Win 94 based on the one example in 44 mag that I once owned.
My son owns a 77/44 and I have to admit that on paper it looks the goods. Having played with it a little I don't think I would swap it for the lesser of my Marlins.

[bigrich]

I have 2 Marlins in 44 mag and I am familiar with their foibles. But in my opinion they are superior to a Win 94 based on the one example in 44 mag that I once owned.
My son owns a 77/44 and I have to admit that on paper it looks the goods. Having played with it a little I don't think I would swap it for the lesser of my Marlins.

yes the winchester 94 in 44 mag is problematic . the 94 was designed for the 30-30, 38-55 cartridge . the short 44 mag does not function well in 94's. the other thing to consider at the moment is the pistol powder and projectile shortage if you handload. my three main centrefire bolt guns run well with 2208 and 2209 . i have a 22 hornet and 2205 and 2400 can't be found for this . i use what i have sparingly . lil gun was my prefered powder until it stopped being imported . i wonder if i can't get a importer to bring this in for me

[in2anity]

yes the winchester 94 in 44 mag is problematic . the 94 was designed for the 30-30, 38-55 cartridge . the short 44 mag does not function well in 94's. the other thing to consider at the moment is the pistol powder and projectile shortage if you handload. my three main centrefire bolt guns run well with 2208 and 2209 . i have a 22 hornet and 2205 and 2400 can't be found for this . i use what i have sparingly . lil gun was my prefered powder until it stopped being imported . i wonder if i can't get a importer to bring this in for me

Yes the lack of lil-gun and 05 is a bit scary. My stalking rifle relies on these. I'm no longer punching paper with it to, conserve what powder i have left.

[bigpete]

I have 2 Marlins in 44 mag and I am familiar with their foibles. But in my opinion they are superior to a Win 94 based on the one example in 44 mag that I once owned.
My son owns a 77/44 and I have to admit that on paper it looks the goods. Having played with it a little I don't think I would swap it for the lesser of my Marlins.

Why is that?

[mickb]

Thanks for the comments fellas. The ruger 77/44 are a bit short in the barrel for me and a bit hit and miss as shooters due to the split bolt design. Pity ruger didnt go for a setup like the old Remington 788's which better shooters in 44mag. Also prefer the faster handling of a lever.

[mickb]

Well I put money down on the roughest and toughest of the bunch. Rossi Stainless 20" in 44mag. Some of these are good shooters out of the box. . Bore on these is big, .432 from my research thanks to the dumb ass SAAMI rule that 44 mag in a revolver has a nice tight bullet matching .429 , but in a rifle its " Anywhere between .430 and .435 will do ". 1:30 twist on these, bit slow for heavy cast but will try some 300 grains at speed.

[bigrich]

Well I put money down on the roughest and toughest of the bunch. Rossi Stainless 20" in 44mag. Some of these are good shooters out of the box. . Bore on these is big, .432 from my research thanks to the dumb ass SAAMI rule that 44 mag in a revolver has a nice tight bullet matching .429 , but in a rifle its " Anywhere between .430 and .435 will do ". 1:30 twist on these, bit slow for heavy cast but will try some 300 grains at speed.

I briefly had a Rossi in 357mag it had a nice slick action and was VERY accurate. But I got rid of it because of the dreadful hard wood stock with cracking in it. Bit of a lucky dip with Rossi at times I hear. But if you get a good one you won’t want to part with it

[bigpete]

Well I put money down on the roughest and toughest of the bunch. Rossi Stainless 20" in 44mag. Some of these are good shooters out of the box. . Bore on these is big, .432 from my research thanks to the dumb ass SAAMI rule that 44 mag in a revolver has a nice tight bullet matching .429 , but in a rifle its " Anywhere between .430 and .435 will do ". 1:30 twist on these, bit slow for heavy cast but will try some 300 grains at speed.

I had one,was brilliantly accurate with 240-265gn jacketed bullets at top loads,and not too bad with Lee 310gn hard cast at top speed. Easily minute of pig. Just decided I don’t like levers as much as bolt actions.

[mickb]

Yes that brazilian rubber wood can be a bit hit and miss. Good to know on the accuracy possibilities fellas. I will find a mild power load, like a '44 Special +P' level load that can serve on pigs feeding at night, usually shot from a parked tractor under red light at a distance of 30 yards or so. And a full power load, or heavy factory ammo it likes.

[Fionn]

Boyds do stocks for Rossi's if you don't like the standard ones.

[mickb]

nice mate is that your gun?

[bigrich]

Yes that brazilian rubber wood can be a bit hit and miss. Good to know on the accuracy possibilities fellas. I will find a mild power load, like a '44 Special +P' level load that can serve on pigs feeding at night, usually shot from a parked tractor under red light at a distance of 30 yards or so. And a full power load, or heavy factory ammo it likes.

From memory, lots of fellas reckon Winchester 240 sp factory ammo works really good on pigs with regards to expansion. Lots of buffaloes got culled with the 44-40 from horseback in times past . Depending on range,and your eyesight, 44 mag will be very capable. The trick is to find the right projectiles for the game. Get onto American forums like “paco Kelly” that are lever gun specific. Lots of good advice for Rossi owners there too. The Rossi is very popular in cowboy action shoots in the US apparently

[Fionn]

nice mate is that your gun?

No, my Rossi is in 357, with standard stock with a skinner rail and red dot fitted. I am not a big fan of the standard stock colour, so have been looking at other stocks, but the boyds is close to $300US shipped, which is almost half the value of the rifle, so for that much I may just refinish the standard stock.

I do have a 44mag rifle but its not a lever action, but which is my go to deer rifle.

[mickb]

Yes that brazilian rubber wood can be a bit hit and miss. Good to know on the accuracy possibilities fellas. I will find a mild power load, like a '44 Special +P' level load that can serve on pigs feeding at night, usually shot from a parked tractor under red light at a distance of 30 yards or so. And a full power load, or heavy factory ammo it likes.

From memory, lots of fellas reckon Winchester 240 sp factory ammo works really good on pigs with regards to expansion. Lots of buffaloes got culled with the 44-40 from horseback in times past . Depending on range,and your eyesight, 44 mag will be very capable. The trick is to find the right projectiles for the game. Get onto American forums like “paco Kelly” that are lever gun specific. Lots of good advice for Rossi owners there too. The Rossi is very popular in cowboy action shoots in the US apparently

cheers bigrich, im a member of pacos site. Good material there. What I like about the yanks is they have all their pistol hunting- big game even with 357, 44 mags and 45 colts etc. Im into similar level shooting myself, that is via moderately loaded lever guns.