Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

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Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by flashman » 05 Jun 2022, 9:52 am

Hi probable been asked before ...........but i would like to know if there is a difference in break in procedure between the 2 , I feel Hammer forge would be a lot smoother in the manufacturing process to Button rifling ........your thoughts........ :thumbsup:
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by straightshooter » 05 Jun 2022, 12:32 pm

A waste of time.
One of the biggest con tricks in shooting ever.
Just clean thoroughly after every use.
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by on_one_wheel » 05 Jun 2022, 12:52 pm

straightshooter wrote:A waste of time.
One of the biggest con tricks in shooting ever.
Just clean thoroughly after every use.


Agreed, other than a very thorough clean before its first use, use it and clean it exactly as you would long term.

Breaking in has been a long running argument however Im yet to see any scientific evidence put forward by the "run it in crowd" to back the claims, no side by side / shot for shot comparisons, no before / during / after bore scope pictures, no side by side projectile friction tests.. it should be a very easy concept to prove :unknown:
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by flashman » 05 Jun 2022, 2:40 pm

OK Point taken , will go through my un scientific brake in thanks just a thought .......thanks
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by SCJ429 » 05 Jun 2022, 4:32 pm

If it copper fouls badly after only a couple of shots, you are going to have to clean it, until the copper settles down. When this occurs, you have broken the barrel in.
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by flashman » 05 Jun 2022, 5:52 pm

ok this is a hammer forge barrel in 308 win so i will stick with my normal brake in procure ,............THANKS
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by on_one_wheel » 05 Jun 2022, 5:56 pm

flashman wrote:OK Point taken , will go through my un scientific brake in thanks just a thought .......thanks


Hang tight... there'd definitely a few here that will chime in with their breaking in techniques. I reckon it's about 50% of shooters believe that it's beneficial.
I reckon SCJ429 summed it up extremely well.

At the end of the day you've got little to loose by excessive cleaning other than time and money.
I watched a video of a bloke bust the "cleaning wears out your barrel" myth, he used a power drill and frantically reamed his barrel making sure to be extra aggressive.... all from the muzzle end and despite his best efforts the barrel looked great.

Found that video https://youtu.be/shqUtDdX4QM
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by in2anity » 05 Jun 2022, 6:26 pm

SCJ429 wrote:If it copper fouls badly after only a couple of shots, you are going to have to clean it, until the copper settles down. When this occurs, you have broken the barrel in.


Where have you been!?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by SCJ429 » 05 Jun 2022, 8:14 pm

Forgot my login???
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by Wyliecoyote » 06 Jun 2022, 9:36 am

About 100% of benchrest shooters run in their barrels or use some sort of throat polishing treatment prior to shooting. I see no need to break in a barrel for minute of pig as the pig is not concerned whether your barrel fouls or shoots quarter MOA.
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by Diamond Jim » 06 Jun 2022, 10:39 pm

If it does no harm then why not follow a "break in" routine? That's what I do until someone shows me the alternative gives better results. I do the same when I buy a new car, chainsaw, generator, lawnmower, etc. - I follow the break in routine. Why would you not do it for a rifle?
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by flashman » 11 Jun 2022, 12:00 pm

Ok I did my break in , well I feel good ,Yes it cost me 20rnds don`t care ,it just feels wright ,im the same as Diamond J breaking in just a habit I guess... :thumbsup:
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by northdude » 12 Jun 2022, 10:53 am

Never broken one in yet and they all shoot how they are supposed to. Just a really good clean before initial first time out and ckean it after its first outing. The patches should give a good indication of whats going on..
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by Wyliecoyote » 12 Jun 2022, 11:02 am

northdude wrote:Never broken one in yet and they all shoot how they are supposed to. Just a really good clean before initial first time out and ckean it after its first outing. The patches should give a good indication of whats going on..


Just two points there. Would it have been possible that your rifles performed better after a break in regime and what exactly do the patches tell you?
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by northdude » 12 Jun 2022, 2:16 pm

Considering they are budget hunting rifles 1/2inch groups off bags when I'm doing my bit are pretty hard to argue with. If the patch comes out with heaps of copper on it its an indication it could be copper fouling. Only been doing it for 40+ years and admit I'm no expert but that's what I've come to believe from my experiences so far
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by flashman » 12 Jun 2022, 3:56 pm

Dont know the science but have done the same break in to all my weapons ,it works .....it dose not work ,my old man told me ,fire 1 clean ..fire 3 clean....fire 3 lots of 5 cleaning after every group .....done ....any way thats what dad said.. :drinks:
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by northdude » 12 Jun 2022, 6:25 pm

yea its one of those questions you could ask 10 different people and get 10 different answers. I recon just do whatever you feel comfortable with, Its your gun. I knew one guy that would first clean the new barrel and then pour jiff into the barrel and do 50 strokes clean it out and that was his break in. The only thing I watch with the first session is not to get it to hot I guess.
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by Boundry Rider » 13 Jun 2022, 8:46 am

My new barrel break in routine, SS seems easier to clean, most of mine from new are hammer, however I recently fitted a TSE axle to a 7Mag (chromo) and it’s definitely much tougher wearing and button rifled not hammer forged.
5 x each shot clean, 3 x each 3rd shot clean, 2 x each 5th shot clean. Pull a bore snake every 5 shots for the next 50 shots or so and clean every 20 shots until you’re easily over 100.
Not interested in schooling anyone on this, just posting what works for me.
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by flashman » 13 Jun 2022, 10:41 am

Yes I see the patten ,mind over mater ,if it feels good do it........................
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by JohnV » 13 Jun 2022, 6:04 pm

Hammer forging by it's very nature has less tendency to produce any burs as can happen with button rifling but not as bad as cut or broach rifling is .
However any rubbish in the bore hole or on the mandrel will get hammered into the bore surface and that can cause issues as the barrel is used .
Overall good clean hammer forging makes a smooth barrel , button rifling pretty good also and cut or broach about last .
With button rifling a lot depends on operator skill , how good the hole is as far as no reamer marks etc. go and how fast they drag the button .
Some barrels come out better than others and usually end up marked as select match or similar . Sometimes they will do a real slow production run for match barrels . I paid MAB ( now TSE ) to make three barrels for me and paid $300 extra to get selected match quality bores . I thought I was wasting my money but all three shoot great and look and feel really smooth .
The smooth feeling hammer forged or top grade lapped match barrel probably won't get much from a run in but it can't hurt either .
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by flashman » 15 Jun 2022, 9:25 am

How do u define a match barrel, can u see the quality inside and out , it’s the inside that counts..what am I looking for in a match barrel, except the extra cost
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by JohnV » 16 Jun 2022, 9:06 pm

flashman wrote:How do u define a match barrel, can u see the quality inside and out , it’s the inside that counts..what am I looking for in a match barrel, except the extra cost

All we can do without a bore scope and air gauging equipment is trust the barrel maker to do his job well and gauge the barrels well so that the precise made bores can be set a side .
A match barrel should look pristine inside the bore and when you push a patch through with a small amount of oil on it there should be no hang-ups , no tight spots and no lint clinging to any rough spots . It should clean easily , not foul easily and shoot well . Your not really going to know if you have a good barrel until you shoot it . Match barrels are more expensive because they make them slower and do more gauging and lapping work . If you pay the extra and don't get a good shooting barrel the gunsmith who fitted it can usually get you another one on warranty replacement .
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by Elmer » 23 Jun 2022, 8:49 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:
flashman wrote:OK Point taken , will go through my un scientific brake in thanks just a thought .......thanks


Hang tight... there'd definitely a few here that will chime in with their breaking in techniques. I reckon it's about 50% of shooters believe that it's beneficial.
I reckon SCJ429 summed it up extremely well.

At the end of the day you've got little to loose by excessive cleaning other than time and money.
I watched a video of a bloke bust the "cleaning wears out your barrel" myth, he used a power drill and frantically reamed his barrel making sure to be extra aggressive.... all from the muzzle end and despite his best efforts the barrel looked great.
Yeah that was in part to test if short stroking with a bronze brush would damage the bore
Apparently, there was NO damage done.

Found that video https://youtu.be/shqUtDdX4QM
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Re: Button / Hammer forge same break in ??

Post by JohnV » 25 Jun 2022, 12:05 pm

Elmer wrote:
on_one_wheel wrote:
flashman wrote:OK Point taken , will go through my un scientific brake in thanks just a thought .......thanks


Hang tight... there'd definitely a few here that will chime in with their breaking in techniques. I reckon it's about 50% of shooters believe that it's beneficial.
I reckon SCJ429 summed it up extremely well.

At the end of the day you've got little to loose by excessive cleaning other than time and money.
I watched a video of a bloke bust the "cleaning wears out your barrel" myth, he used a power drill and frantically reamed his barrel making sure to be extra aggressive.... all from the muzzle end and despite his best efforts the barrel looked great.
Yeah that was in part to test if short stroking with a bronze brush would damage the bore
Apparently, there was NO damage done.

Found that video https://youtu.be/shqUtDdX4QM

I can assure you that cleaning from the muzzle end is a bad idea . Just because a bore looks shiny and good does not give any indication of how much metal has been removed . However the extra cleaning in a run in will not do any harm as long as the cleaning is done properly and not from the muzzle end if possible .
I once saw a guy at Mick Smiths in Sydney complaining about his Sako Manlicher model not shooting accurately . As soon as he described how he cleaned the gun I knew that the crown area would be F*cked . Eventually I walked over and asked could I inspect the gun and sure enough the lands were gone inside the muzzle . Never use a bore snake .
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