variety of game with 223

[bladeracer]

A grazier told me there’s a part of the brain u have to destroy for instant kill. He said the word but it’s technical name part of the brain I can’t remember... prior to that I just thought brain shot was just the same. Obviously it matters more if u using a small gun and matters less with a bigger gun

You need to destroy or shock the brain-stem, mid-brain, or the top part of the spinal cord, that's the primitive part of the brain that controls life support. It sends the signals to the heart, lungs and diaphragm to keep them functioning.

[animalpest]

Taking out the back part of the brain (cerebellum) stops the animal from moving.
Destroying the brain will kill the animal fairly instantaneously, but shooting the cerebellum makes them drop like a rock. Not a twitch.

The Medulla Oblongata is the main part of the upper spinal cord and controls automatic functions such as breathing etc.

[Die Judicii]

A grazier told me there’s a part of the brain u have to destroy for instant kill. He said the word but it’s technical name part of the brain I can’t remember... prior to that I just thought brain shot was just the same. Obviously it matters more if u using a small gun and matters less with a bigger gun

Hey Russ, You would be referring to the "Medulla Oblongata"

Ha Ha Ha,,,,,,,,,, beaten by seconds by Animal Pest.

[Blr243]

I never heard of the m o thing before but cera rings a bell so I think that’s what the bloke told me couple of months back

[JohnV]

Any bullet that lodges well into the brain is going to kill the beast pretty darn quick .

[Boundry Rider]

A grazier told me there’s a part of the brain u have to destroy for instant kill. He said the word but it’s technical name part of the brain I can’t remember... prior to that I just thought brain shot was just the same. Obviously it matters more if u using a small gun and matters less with a bigger gun

Brainstem? disruption of the brainstem is critical for death to occur with a head shot.

Brain stem is in the rear connects from inside the spinal conduit- the central nerve

[Border_Bloke]

I had a mate once that wanted me to help him butcher a cow . So I said I will bring the knives , saw , tackle and tripod to hang the beast and you bring a gun to shoot it .
Well he turned up with a manky old 22 single shot and a few bullets that looked so old and crappy . Anyway he lined it up in the yard and first shot , misfire , second shot went off and hit the cow in the right brain area but the cow just lurched away and tried to jump out of the yard . I said go up to the station house and get a real gun a center fire . I knew at that stage the meat was ruined from adrenalin but no turning back now . I needed to get the cow down and if I could I would just slit it's neck open and cut the main artery . So in I go Rambo style with knife in pouch and grab the cow by the tail and reefed it around and pull it down on it's side the jump onto it's neck so it can't get up and then administer the coup de grace . It worked because the cow was kinda stunned anyway . So my mate gets back with 303 and to his surprise the cow is down and bled out . So moral of the story is never use anyone else's gun , use your own gun and ammunition you can rely on . I made a mistake that day .

Similar thing happened when I was a lad. We shot a bull in the centre of the forehead with a 22. Four shots later I ran and got my uncles 22 magnum- dead on the first shot.

A bloke who worked for me had a similar story, his neighbour shot a cow with a 22 and it didn’t work, then borrowed their 12 gauge shotgun which did work.

After that I used to use a 308 with FMJ’s to head shoot cattle with 100% success rate.

[JohnV]

I had a mate once that wanted me to help him butcher a cow . So I said I will bring the knives , saw , tackle and tripod to hang the beast and you bring a gun to shoot it .
Well he turned up with a manky old 22 single shot and a few bullets that looked so old and crappy . Anyway he lined it up in the yard and first shot , misfire , second shot went off and hit the cow in the right brain area but the cow just lurched away and tried to jump out of the yard . I said go up to the station house and get a real gun a center fire . I knew at that stage the meat was ruined from adrenalin but no turning back now . I needed to get the cow down and if I could I would just slit it's neck open and cut the main artery . So in I go Rambo style with knife in pouch and grab the cow by the tail and reefed it around and pull it down on it's side the jump onto it's neck so it can't get up and then administer the coup de grace . It worked because the cow was kinda stunned anyway . So my mate gets back with 303 and to his surprise the cow is down and bled out . So moral of the story is never use anyone else's gun , use your own gun and ammunition you can rely on . I made a mistake that day .

Similar thing happened when I was a lad. We shot a bull in the centre of the forehead with a 22. Four shots later I ran and got my uncles 22 magnum- dead on the first shot.

A bloke who worked for me had a similar story, his neighbor shot a cow with a 22 and it didn’t work, then borrowed their 12 gauge shotgun which did work.


After that I used to use a 308 with FMJ’s to head shoot cattle with 100% success rate.

Bulls and steers have a ridge of bone in the very middle of the skull . If a 22 rimfire hits that it won't penetrate . On Bulls . steers and old cows I always aim slightly left or right of center if using a light cartridge . I am with you on the 308 , drops them like a stone . Most of the mobile butcher people are killing 12 to 24 month old cattle so the skull is not that thick and the ridge not developed .

[animalpest]

Not a good photo but here is the shot placement on a bull of unknown age, but he was big.
Dropped him at about 35m yesterday.

[Hoppa 101]

DBCA have got it wrong. Most people do because they dont know any different. Not the first time and wont be the last.
Remember, these are not written by the "government", they are written by a public servant. And they certainly get many things wrong.

Most of the information is taken off national Standard Operating Procedures, which are written by people who have never used firearms to any degree. They are pretty good researchers though.

Note that in the accompanying photo, it was only the uppermost shot that killed the animal. The others, including those shot between the eyes, and at the X between the ears and eyes, all failed to kill the animal.

The public servant who runs this training course is an extremely experienced shooter and trainer. His program includes helicopter shooting for feral control. I'd put that and my own experience up against "I know a bloke who shot a cow once" any day. Looking at that photo drawing a line from the top of the ears to the opposite eye you're pretty much in line with the kill shot. Given we don't know the angle of the cows head and hence the angle of bullet entry you really are picking at straws.

I was a firearms instructor in the WA government long, long before DBCA even picked up a gun. And that included chopper shooting. Experienced shooters still get it wrong. Nothing wrong with that - its what these forums are for.

Other game animals have different locations of the brain. People take one location and assume all animals have the same anatomy, but they don't.

The same can be said for the location of the lungs, eg pigs and camels

Soooo working for the WA Government you used to be one of those "Public Servants" So when I shoot cows and they drop dead instantly then an ex public servant with all the research comes along and tells me I've got it wrong you can understand why I'm going yeah nah. It's been fun stirring but I'm bored now. Bye Ps What if the cow doesn't have horns?

[animalpest]

You will note that the bull in the photo didn't have horns. The poll is where it is.

Actually most of my research has been in the private sector. Beats me why some people's comments on other people's knowledge/experience are derogatory.

Whatever floats your boat

[CRF]

DBCA have got it wrong. Most people do because they dont know any different. Not the first time and wont be the last.
Remember, these are not written by the "government", they are written by a public servant. And they certainly get many things wrong.

Most of the information is taken off national Standard Operating Procedures, which are written by people who have never used firearms to any degree. They are pretty good researchers though.

Note that in the accompanying photo, it was only the uppermost shot that killed the animal. The others, including those shot between the eyes, and at the X between the ears and eyes, all failed to kill the animal.

That is some terrible shooting for sure.

I've noticed some of the local young blokes these
Days don't think there is a difference between brain and head shooting.

[bigpete]

DBCA have got it wrong. Most people do because they dont know any different. Not the first time and wont be the last.
Remember, these are not written by the "government", they are written by a public servant. And they certainly get many things wrong.

Most of the information is taken off national Standard Operating Procedures, which are written by people who have never used firearms to any degree. They are pretty good researchers though.

Note that in the accompanying photo, it was only the uppermost shot that killed the animal. The others, including those shot between the eyes, and at the X between the ears and eyes, all failed to kill the animal.

That is some terrible shooting for sure.

I've noticed some of the local young blokes these
Days don't think there is a difference between brain and head shooting.

Not just young blokes either....

[bigrich]

the problem pete , is everybody is a expert these days .look stuff up on the internet , and hey, bingo . instant know-it-all .
and due to pride and ego , lot's of people are closed minded to learning of people who have more experience .
i'll eat humble pie and listen if somebody has something to say

[mickb]

100% bigrich, why I started the thread. I have shot 223's in the past, borrowed mates, used similar cal of course in army, but never owned one or explored what they can do. I could BS that I know 223's, but easier to be honest and listen.

[bigrich]

100% bigrich, why I started the thread. I have shot 223's in the past, borrowed mates, used similar cal of course in army, but never owned one or explored what they can do. I could BS that I know 223's, but easier to be honest and listen.

I agree with ya mick . Soon as people turn into know-it-alls, that’s when they become ignorant and stop learning. I’m heading towards 54, and in my trade and with cars I’ve never stopped learning new things. Firearms and hunting is no different

[Blr243]

Timber casement windows with friction stays are not usually pleasant to deal with .. I have been doin a stack of them the last couple of days and managed to develop a far superior installation procedure . Wish I had thought of it sooner but doin them for the last 30 years always the same way ..... much better now. NEVER TOO OLD TO LEARN

[mickb]

Just adding this to my old thread rather than start a new one.

On ADI online I see a load for about 19 grains of 2207 with a 55 grain SP, 2850fps and pressure only 35K...

Was thinking this reduced load makes pretty good economy for sending the roo bullets out, probably bit lower blast too running 20kpsi lower than max. I dont need max velocities or ranges(200m most often). Worth trying some loads with it you reckon fellas?

Main questions would be
1. Will this bullet still expand in the low 2000's if its down to those speeds.

2. Any other reduced loads anyone can recommend? Not after pistol powder loads( blue dot, trail boss etc, the stuff is now too precious to waste in a rifle ha ha) but any rifle powder reduced loads would be interested. Possible to get any bullets closer to 22 hornet level?

[bladeracer]

Just adding this to my old thread rather than start a new one.

On ADI online I see a load for about 19 grains of 2207 with a 55 grain SP, 2850fps and pressure only 35K...

Was thinking this reduced load makes pretty good economy for sending the roo bullets out, probably bit lower blast too running 20kpsi lower than max. I dont need max velocities or ranges(200m most often). Worth trying some loads with it you reckon fellas?

Main questions would be
1. Will this bullet still expand in the low 2000's if its down to those speeds.

2. Any other reduced loads anyone can recommend? Not after pistol powder loads( blue dot, trail boss etc, the stuff is now too precious to waste in a rifle ha ha) but any rifle powder reduced loads would be interested. Possible to get any bullets closer to 22 hornet level?

Generally I've found most jacketed small game bullets specify around 1600fps minimum terminal velocity. I would stay above about 2000fps muzzle velocity if I want the bullet to deform out to about 100m. Adjust the load for accuracy so you can place it where it needs to be - the head. They won't blow a rabbit to pieces like a 3900fps 35gn bullet but they will definitely kill it. If you're using them in a tighter-twist barrel they'll deform more readily due to the much higher rpm.

I shoot the 55gn SGK (SuperRoo) at 3300fps in 8"-twist. By 250m it's down around 2000fps, and I'm confident it would be effective out there. By 300m it's down around 1750fps, and I would still consider it effective. Launched at 2000fps, it's down to 1750fps by about 50m, and 1600fps by about 100m.

I had a look at the Code of Practice for 'Roos and can't find any mention of velocity, but you can't use subsonic ammo. With no further information you could launch at 1125fps and it will be subsonic by about 3m from the muzzle. Only .22LR and WMR specify requiring an expanding bullet.

Yes, use AR2206H and you can go down to low subsonic if you want. I'm saving my Trailboss until I've switched all my reduced loads over to AR2206H, just in case TB never gets produced again.

[mickb]

Cheers mate. Using Seirras BC for the 55gr gameking( .235-.255 depending on velocity) and shooterscalculator.com started at 2850fps it should have 2033fps at 200 and 1872fps left at 250. Wont be looking to run low speeds with this, just less than max.

[animalpest]

Running a .223 at optimal speed would be what the right thing to do is when you are shooting roos. Having significantly reduced loads compared to factory would be frowned upon if not specifically put in the Code. (pretty sure the old Code had velocities, but not this one).

Having said that, running a .223 at .222 speeds should be fine.

[mickb]

I wont be shooting roos

[animalpest]

Cool. Assumed using roo bullets and asking about expansion at lower velocity meant using on roos.

[mickb]

ok yeah meant the (super)roo bullet, 55 grain seiirra gamekings. Will be mostly on pigs, some dogs