5023 yards with Mark and Sam

[bladeracer]

.375 Gibbs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Sfrh0XDCk

[dnedative]

Would be like getting hit with a rock at that distance

[bladeracer]

Would be like getting hit with a rock at that distance

From the target camera you can hear the shot fired 4.6km away about 2.5-seconds before the bullet impacts.

I couldn't find load data but he has shot the .375 Gibbs before using the Cheytac 350gn bullet. I'm guessing velocity around 3000fps but could be a bit higher. Puts the bullet about 230m above line of sight at the midway point, terminal velocity around 700fps which seems about right, time of flight about 13-seconds. Amazingly it drops to subsonic about halfway - but the BC of .988 helps it hang onto the remaining velocity very well indeed.

[bigpete]

Would be like getting hit with a rock at that distance

From the target camera you can hear the shot fired 4.6km away about 2.5-seconds before the bullet impacts.

I couldn't find load data but he has shot the .375 Gibbs before using the Cheytac 350gn bullet. I'm guessing velocity around 3000fps but could be a bit higher. Puts the bullet about 230m above line of sight at the midway point, terminal velocity around 700fps which seems about right, time of flight about 13-seconds. Amazingly it drops to subsonic about halfway - but the BC of .988 helps it hang onto the remaining velocity very well indeed.

350gn at 700fps would definitely not be like being hit by a rock.....

[northdude]

230m above line of sight. Thats a morter

[Boundry Rider]

Hope it's not filmed in WA.
WAPOL would have a fit and arrest everybody involved

[bladeracer]

Hope it's not filmed in WA.
WAPOL would have a fit and arrest everybody involved

Toodyay area.

[bladeracer]

230m above line of sight. Thats a mortar

Shooting upwards at roughly 320 minutes or 5.25 degrees, so fairly steep. The bullet comes down into the target at about 17 degrees.

[in2anity]

they need to just build the jackal gun and control from a computer. Then they'll be the best shooters in the world.

[bladeracer]

they need to just build the jackal gun and control from a computer. Then they'll be the best shooters in the world.

I know NSW specifically prohibits firing a firearm remotely, I would assume all states are the same?

I don't think Mark needs to remove himself from the equation though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPxloOlzmjA

[solarpak]

Gee - those two chaps must me made of $$ with all the ELR shenanigans they post on Poo-tube!!
All we can say is "Whats next M&S?????"
C.

[in2anity]

I don't think Mark needs to remove himself from the equation though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPxloOlzmjA

Yeah with his offhand, I guess he goes about average for a shooting enthusiast. I’m sure you could do that too Blade, given enough ammo. I’ve seen your offhand vids - you can shoot offhand! Granted he seems like a good F class shooter - although I think he literally does do F class?

His offhand “shotgun” stance isn’t conducive to accuracy though, considering he’s shooting slowly and carefully. Needs to pop the hip out and tuck that arm in.

[dnedative]

Would be like getting hit with a rock at that distance

From the target camera you can hear the shot fired 4.6km away about 2.5-seconds before the bullet impacts.

I couldn't find load data but he has shot the .375 Gibbs before using the Cheytac 350gn bullet. I'm guessing velocity around 3000fps but could be a bit higher. Puts the bullet about 230m above line of sight at the midway point, terminal velocity around 700fps which seems about right, time of flight about 13-seconds. Amazingly it drops to subsonic about halfway - but the BC of .988 helps it hang onto the remaining velocity very well indeed.

350gn at 700fps would definitely not be like being hit by a rock.....

I dont know, I can throw em pretty hard

[bladeracer]

I don't think Mark needs to remove himself from the equation though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPxloOlzmjA

Yeah with his offhand, I guess he goes about average for a shooting enthusiast. I’m sure you could do that too Blade, given enough ammo. I’ve seen your offhand vids - you can shoot offhand! Granted he seems like a good F class shooter - although I think he literally does do F class?

His offhand “shotgun” stance isn’t conducive to accuracy though, considering he’s shooting slowly and carefully. Needs to pop the hip out and tuck that arm in.

I suspect he must have an F-Class background just from the design of the various rests and long-range shooting gear he makes and sells. Whether he currently competes I don't know, and he runs a fairly busy workshop (he's a mechanic). Why would he go to clubs when he can go out to the paddocks and shoot however he wants. I don't follow F-Class (though I am on several forums and FB groups) but I don't see his name on the current lists.

[bladeracer]

350gn at 700fps would definitely not be like being hit by a rock.....

I dont know, I can throw em pretty hard

Considering 350gn .44 Magnum loads make around 1200fps from a handgun, this is going to be similar to being shot with a .44 Magnum at about 200m - that's going to leave a mark

[on_one_wheel]

I don't think Mark needs to remove himself from the equation though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPxloOlzmjA

Yeah with his offhand, I guess he goes about average for a shooting enthusiast. I’m sure you could do that too Blade, given enough ammo. I’ve seen your offhand vids - you can shoot offhand! Granted he seems like a good F class shooter - although I think he literally does do F class?

His offhand “shotgun” stance isn’t conducive to accuracy though, considering he’s shooting slowly and carefully. Needs to pop the hip out and tuck that arm in.

Taking offhand pot shots that far with open sights on a windy day, I doubt stance would really help greatly
I'm surprised he wasn't throwing them over his shoulder with the aid of a mirror to sight.
I'll add one thing to stance, personally I find it impossible to stick my elbow into my hip like you should, perhaps that works well with narrow shoulders, average muscle & fat mass and reasonable flexibility? For me, unfortunately it just doesn't work.

[Die Judicii]

Fckn impressive. I want one of those.

My partner watched it several times,, then walked away saying,, "that's bullsh!t"

Not in a derogatory way by any means. She was really impressed.

[in2anity]

Taking offhand pot shots that far with open sights on a windy day, I doubt stance would really help greatly
I'm surprised he wasn't throwing them over his shoulder with the aid of a mirror to sight.

Couldn't agree more. Which is why I'm not that impressed by particularly those videos. Of course he will hit it, if enough slugs get sent down - it's a statistical certainty. If yu wanna see some good offhand shooting go to a OPM Metallic Silhouette shoot - those guys are the pinnacle of offhand. Now that's impressive. But even Service Rifle shooters get very good at it too - there are some phenomenal offhand shooters in our SR club, who get particularly good at higher speed offhand. That's when the shotgun pose comes into its own.

I'll add one thing to stance, personally I find it impossible to stick my elbow into my hip like you should, perhaps that works well with narrow shoulders, average muscle & fat mass and reasonable flexibility? For me, unfortunately it just doesn't work.

At the end of the day you gotta do what works for you. i know plenty of amazing offhand service shooters who only shoot from the shotgun pose, As i mentioned, the shotgun pose actually suited to offhand shooting that requires quick follow up shots. It's just the slow fire applications and deliberates where you see particularly Master grade shooters doing the weird olympic pose. But then they generally switch to the shotgun pose for the stage2 which will often be a quick fire course - and they don't drop the gun from the shoulder. Quick reload/target-acquisition, slow aim - that's the ticket.

[bladeracer]

Taking offhand pot shots that far with open sights on a windy day, I doubt stance would really help greatly
I'm surprised he wasn't throwing them over his shoulder with the aid of a mirror to sight.
I'll add one thing to stance, personally I find it impossible to stick my elbow into my hip like you should, perhaps that works well with narrow shoulders, average muscle & fat mass and reasonable flexibility? For me, unfortunately it just doesn't work.

I can do the elbow tuck but it's not at all comfortable, better with something with an extended magazine. For offhand shooting I don't like any support, I grip the rifle out front and pull it back into my shoulder.

[bladeracer]

That was more than a mile though, not many people shoot offhand competitions anywhere near that distance. He only fired 25 shots in that instance, without making any hits. But if you look at the size of the "group" he was making it was pretty good shooting...at a 600mm square...with iron sights...and a 20m wind hold. He wasn't even using a rear notch, just holding the front sight above the top of the elevated ramp and trying to find a hold that worked. The group was probably no more than three meters or so. With a rifle that probably doesn't group much better than two-minutes off the bench with a scope. At 1650m, one-minute is 480mm.

At 4600m, one-minute is 1.34m, so his target is less than a third of a minute. I could send hundreds of rounds down there, perhaps thousands, with little expectation of actually making a hit outside of a fluke Considering the cost of shooting .375 Cheytac, and the barrel life, I doubt he's shooting many hundreds of rounds at those ranges.

I did ask him once on one of his videos in heavy wind whether he was holding anywhere within what we were seeing on screen - nope, his wind hold was well outside the area we could see.

Taking offhand pot shots that far with open sights on a windy day, I doubt stance would really help greatly
I'm surprised he wasn't throwing them over his shoulder with the aid of a mirror to sight.

Couldn't agree more. Which is why I'm not that impressed by particularly those videos. Of course he will hit it, if enough slugs get sent down - it's a statistical certainty. If yu wanna see some good offhand shooting go to a OPM Metallic Silhouette shoot - those guys are the pinnacle of offhand. Now that's impressive. But even Service Rifle shooters get very good at it too - there are some phenomenal offhand shooters in our SR club, who get particularly good at higher speed offhand. That's when the shotgun pose comes into its own.

I'll add one thing to stance, personally I find it impossible to stick my elbow into my hip like you should, perhaps that works well with narrow shoulders, average muscle & fat mass and reasonable flexibility? For me, unfortunately it just doesn't work.

At the end of the day you gotta do what works for you. i know plenty of amazing offhand service shooters who only shoot from the shotgun pose, As i mentioned, the shotgun pose actually suited to offhand shooting that requires quick follow up shots. It's just the slow fire applications and deliberates where you see particularly Master grade shooters doing the weird olympic pose. But then they generally switch to the shotgun pose for the stage2 which will often be a quick fire course - and they don't drop the gun from the shoulder. Quick reload/target-acquisition, slow aim - that's the ticket.

[in2anity]

, better with something with an extended magazine..

This is literally one of the perks of the SMLE, ideally the lighter No5 for offhand - the mag hangs lower than most Mausers, and it’s the perfect place to balance the rifle on your support hand making the muzzle naturally higher. Another trick you can do is have the sling wedged in there to add even more height.

Me personally, from standing I like a two point sling across the chest - you wrap into it, and squeeze the rifle tight into your chest. My support elbow isn’t completely on the hip, but not too far forward as well - a compromise pose for both slow and quick fire.

The olympic pose is the most stable, but at the same time most fragile - if a strong side wind is buffeting, you hold will be all over the place which is a problem for a quickfire where you must break on cue. The shotgun pose allows you to muscle the forend better in this case - but it also speeds up the fatigue in your support arm, if you don't have time to drop the rifle between shots, a-la a service match. That's where being fit and strong helps.

Being basically able to put the rifle down between shots is a critical detail of metallic silhouette - it gives your arms a brief window of time to recover from arm fatigue. Same with Olympic 3p - they must take the weight of their arms between shots, else the group sizes would be doubled I'm sure.

It's all tradeoffs - you gotta figure out what works best for you and your given application.