Transporting guns and ammo in a car.

[Johnat21]

New question from the newbie... Reading the firearms regs, transportation of guns and ammo is allowed in the same vehicle with a lockable glove box, but my holden equinox doesn't have one...how do you get around this when going to the range or on a hunt?

[bladeracer]

New question from the newbie... Reading the firearms regs, transportation of guns and ammo is allowed in the same vehicle with a lockable glove box, but my holden equinox doesn't have one...how do you get around this when going to the range or on a hunt?

Grab an MTM ammo crate and a couple of padlocks.
I believe the glove box is not considered "secure" if you're in deer habitat - somebody should be able to clarify that I'm sure.

[in2anity]

Under NSW law, ammunition must be stored in a locked container, separate from firearms. This can be a separate locked compartment or container in a gun safe, or a separate container entirely.

[Oldbloke]

Any lockable container complies,,within reason I guess.

Bunnings sell these. Just add a padlock.

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[deye243]

In Victoria there is no regulation stating that you must lock up your ammunition I went through this one myself until somebody may have even been here set me straight the only time it needs to be locked is if you are in a vehicle that has a Spotlight fixed to the vehicle and you are in state forest recognised deer habitat I was under the assumption that it didn't matter where you were in Victoria that it had to be locked away I was clearly wrong unless they have amended it.
And if you are in recognised deer habitat going to or from a hunt and have a light fixed to your roof or side of your vehicle a glovebox does not pass neither does a lockable console which I thought was very strange that you can lock it up in a plastic container with a tiny padlock who would of thought that would happen when you have a bunch of people who know nothing about firearms and hunting and shooting making regulations

[Johnat21]

I'm in Vic BTW... thanks deye243

[deye243]

It would be worth checking out problem is whenever you talk to a copper all you get is the way they want things I suppose a phone call to the Registry might be in order if you don't mind waiting for an hour to get through .
What I said was the way it was a couple years ago and you know how they like making amendments and they don't tell anybody about it , funny how when they change or create a new road law it's in news and newspapers for weeks.

[Oldbloke]

Uncertain what is regulated. But cops guidelines here. Just scroll down.

https://www.police.vic.gov.au/firearm-storage

[Blr243]

I had a police officer tell me I needed a licence for a compound bow I had in my car in Qld. We are not the only ones struggling with the laws

[Fionn]

In Victoria there is no regulation stating that you must lock up your ammunition I went through this one myself until somebody may have even been here set me straight the only time it needs to be locked is if you are in a vehicle that has a Spotlight fixed to the vehicle and you are in state forest recognised deer habitat I was under the assumption that it didn't matter where you were in Victoria that it had to be locked away I was clearly wrong unless they have amended it.
And if you are in recognised deer habitat going to or from a hunt and have a light fixed to your roof or side of your vehicle a glovebox does not pass neither does a lockable console which I thought was very strange that you can lock it up in a plastic container with a tiny padlock who would of thought that would happen when you have a bunch of people who know nothing about firearms and hunting and shooting making regulations

I assume you mean no law saying ammunition needs to be locked up while transporting?

Then no, ammunition doesn't need to be locked up while transporting (with a caveat)

As its depends on the circumstances as Its a grey area of the law and its open to interpretation and case law as to what meant by "a manner that is secure" and what are considered "reasonable precautions to ensure that the cartridge ammunition is not lost or stolen",

Here is the law which covers it.

The Firearms Act 126 Safekeeping of firearms and cartridge ammunition, while being carried or used
(4) A person who is carrying or using cartridge ammunition must—
(a) ensure that the cartridge ammunition is carried and used in a manner that is secure and is not dangerous; and
(b) must take reasonable precautions to ensure that the cartridge ammunition is not lost or stolen

Its the same as transporting a firearm.

Also as pointed out their are different laws while in a recognised deer habitat.

[deye243]

In Victoria there is no regulation stating that you must lock up your ammunition I went through this one myself until somebody may have even been here set me straight the only time it needs to be locked is if you are in a vehicle that has a Spotlight fixed to the vehicle and you are in state forest recognised deer habitat I was under the assumption that it didn't matter where you were in Victoria that it had to be locked away I was clearly wrong unless they have amended it.
And if you are in recognised deer habitat going to or from a hunt and have a light fixed to your roof or side of your vehicle a glovebox does not pass neither does a lockable console which I thought was very strange that you can lock it up in a plastic container with a tiny padlock who would of thought that would happen when you have a bunch of people who know nothing about firearms and hunting and shooting making regulations

I assume you mean no law saying ammunition needs to be locked up while transporting?

Then no, ammunition doesn't need to be locked up while transporting (with a caveat)

As its depends on the circumstances as Its a grey area of the law and its open to interpretation and case law as to what meant by "a manner that is secure" and what are considered "reasonable precautions to ensure that the cartridge ammunition is not lost or stolen",

Here is the law which covers it.

The Firearms Act 126 Safekeeping of firearms and cartridge ammunition, while being carried or used
(4) A person who is carrying or using cartridge ammunition must—
(a) ensure that the cartridge ammunition is carried and used in a manner that is secure and is not dangerous; and
(b) must take reasonable precautions to ensure that the cartridge ammunition is not lost or stolen

Its the same as transporting a firearm.

Also as pointed out their are different laws while in a recognised deer habitat.[/quote]
Yes and the deer habitat law is not a Vic police 1 it is Department of Sparks and Embers but the coppers are very quick to act upon it and as for the act as you say open to interpretation but if you're not stopping between your home and where you're using that gun on the back floor of the car I have a dual cab so have no boot to lock things in and my hunting bag on the passenger seat with the ammunition in it is perfectly safe nobody can steal it I'm sitting right next to it can't be lost either unless I roll my car.

[perentie]

So what is the definition of ammunition?
I thought it was a round of ammo was case, powder primer and projectile all assembled in to one unit.
Yet here we have the NT coppers nabbing a container of air rifle pellets.
I travel with a muzzle loading target rifle. The components are separate so I dont keep them locked away. Would the coppers treat each component as ammo now?

[bladeracer]

So what is the definition of ammunition?
I thought it was a round of ammo was case, powder primer and projectile all assembled in to one unit.
Yet here we have the NT coppers nabbing a container of air rifle pellets.
I travel with a muzzle loading target rifle. The components are separate so I dont keep them locked away. Would the coppers treat each component as ammo now?

Most states consider cartridge ammunition to be a combined unit of brass, primer, powder and bullet.
Some states ignore the bullet so as to encompass blank ammo as well.
Some states specifically include air-rifle pellets as ammo, most don't.
Generally, primed brass is not classed as ammunition, thus must be stored as per Worksafe regs for primers.

WA also considers bullets to be ammunition - and requires ammunition to be secured to the same standard as firearms - I have no idea whether that would include home-made bullets, like cast or machined bullets, as that would include virtually any sort of projectile you can stuff down the barrel. WA firearm laws are very likely the most ridiculous of any place in the world, and WA Police add their own "laws" on top of the actual laws.

[Boundry Rider]

Just to clarify BR, WA legislates “projectiles” as live ammo and therefore can’t even be transported as a piece of metal; instead as DG. Also WA within it’s infinite expertise on firearms activities legislates a spent cartridge with a spent primer as ammo also.

Al least until the current amendments are enacted anyhow, once the 2022 amendments are proclaimed it’ll be another ball game of interpretation.
And hold you breath as the WA Mcsmegol government is writing an entire new act for release as a bill in 2023. So after that point in time shooters won’t be welcome anymore.

Rant over

[deye243]

Yes I have read a little bit about this new legislation for Western Australia and I wouldn't mind betting that one of the big ones is limiting the amount of firearms one can possess with what they've been putting in the paper over there lately it just seems they're beating up public support for restriction

[Fionn]

Yes and the deer habitat law is not a Vic police 1 it is Department of Sparks and Embers but the coppers are very quick to act upon it and as for the act as you say open to interpretation but if you're not stopping between your home and where you're using that gun on the back floor of the car I have a dual cab so have no boot to lock things in and my hunting bag on the passenger seat with the ammunition in it is perfectly safe nobody can steal it I'm sitting right next to it can't be lost either unless I roll my car.

Recognised deer habitat comes under the Wildlife Act, its not a DELWP law per say, but they administer and enforce most of it. The police also have powers to enforce certain parts as do other agencies.

The Firearms Act section 126, doesn't just apply to transporting ammunition in a car, the same requirements apply to carrying ammunition while hunting and is is the grey area.

While not saying Oldbloke is wrong about a tool box, I am sure he doesn't carry his ammo in it while out walking around hunting. But its the same law that applies to both circumstances.

Its like this video https://youtu.be/1YyXUzEyR38, its still perfectly legal to carry a rifle (unloaded) like this at this location (if you hold a licence), definitely not recommend these days, but perfectly legal.

[Oldbloke]

Yes and the deer habitat law is not a Vic police 1 it is Department of Sparks and Embers but the coppers are very quick to act upon it and as for the act as you say open to interpretation but if you're not stopping between your home and where you're using that gun on the back floor of the car I have a dual cab so have no boot to lock things in and my hunting bag on the passenger seat with the ammunition in it is perfectly safe nobody can steal it I'm sitting right next to it can't be lost either unless I roll my car.

Recognised deer habitat comes under the Wildlife Act, its not a DELWP law per say, but they administer and enforce most of it. The police also have powers to enforce certain parts as do other agencies.

The Firearms Act section 126, doesn't just apply to transporting ammunition in a car, the same requirements apply to carrying ammunition while hunting and is is the grey area.

While not saying Oldbloke is wrong about a tool box, I am sure he doesn't carry his ammo in it while out walking around hunting. But its the same law that applies to both circumstances.

Its like this video https://youtu.be/1YyXUzEyR38, its still perfectly legal to carry a rifle (unloaded) like this at this location (if you hold a licence), definitely not recommend these days, but perfectly legal.

For in the car mate. Sheesh. That what the OP asked, not about deer habitat.

[Fionn]

For in the car mate. Sheesh.

I would hope so but who knows

But, you seem to miss the point I made that the laws are the same for both circumstances and yet you act differently.

[Oldbloke]

Yes, I realised that. But it really has nothing to do with the OPs question.

[Fionn]

Yes, I realised that. But it really has nothing to do with the OPs question.

It has everything to do with the OP question as its the same law that governs it.

[Oldbloke]

New question from the newbie... Reading the firearms regs, transportation of guns and ammo is allowed in the same vehicle with a lockable glove box, but my holden equinox doesn't have one...how do you get around this when going to the range or on a hunt?

The question has nothing to do with walking in deer habitat after dark. It's irrelevant to the OP if it's the same section in the Act. He is a newby and needs a simple solution, not a lecture about legislation that is likely to confuse.

[Fionn]

New question from the newbie... Reading the firearms regs, transportation of guns and ammo is allowed in the same vehicle with a lockable glove box, but my holden equinox doesn't have one...how do you get around this when going to the range or on a hunt?

The question has nothing to do with walking in deer habitat after dark. It's irrelevant to the OP if it's the same section in the Act. He is a newby and needs a simple solution, not a lecture about legislation that is likely to confuse.

You seem to be misunderstanding something

I am not talking about a deer habitat except to say different laws apply then normal.

The law I posted and the comments I made about you locking ammo up in a tool box vs walking around hunting, its the same law, but in one circumstance you say to lock it up in a tool box when the law is the same for both circumstances.

I am not saying your idea is a bad idea/suggestion, just you act differently even though the requirements are the same under law.

To put it another way to help you understand what I mean,

The law when carrying ammo whilst out hunting normally is the same as when your transporting ammo in a car to the range or home from a gunshop and yet you suggest to storing it differently.

[Oldbloke]

"The law when carrying ammo whilst out hunting normally is the same as when your transporting ammo in a car to the range or home from a gunshop and yet you suggest to storing it differently"

Yes, that's because each situation is different. It gets back to what is practicable & what a judge would consider reasonable & what info or recommendations are freely available. The law is deliberately vague (to a degree) and open to interpretation.

When transporting in a car, cops recommend a lockable container. I posted a link earlier. Sensible I guess. When hunting after dark in deer habitat in the back pack is recommended or closed container. No mention of lock. Because judges understand a tool box (for example) would be utterly ridiculous. It would be argued in court. You cant cover every situation in legislation because it would be 3 times longer and even more difficult to understand.

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Pretty much everything hunters need to know is available in this down load "Victorian Hunting Manual,"

https://www.gma.vic.gov.au/education/fact-sheets

And

https://www.police.vic.gov.au/firearm-storage