Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

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Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by jwai86 » 16 Dec 2022, 10:24 am

After much bureaucratic wrangling, I'll be receiving my Category A/B licence (hopefully) within the new few weeks. Picking up a rimfire rifle to start learning to shoot is planned, but before that, I'll need a safe. However, I'm undecided on how much storage capacity to aim for because I'm unsure if I'll get enough use out of a centrefire rifle to consider budgeting spare capacity for at least one.

There are several ranges in metropolitan Sydney that I can easily travel to for shooting with a rimfire rifle. However, there are fewer ranges that allow centrefire rifles within the area that I can easily get to. The St Mary's indoor range allows centrefire rifles, but 50 metres might be a bit short to get maximum utility from expensive centrefire rounds. I can easily get to the Hornsby range, and their facilities are longer. However, the ranges at Malabar and Silverdale stretch the limits of easy travel with at least an hour's drive each way.

I've left hunting as an option on my licence, but I don't have have any prior experience let alone any possible hunting locations. A few people at my pistol club engage in hunting, but I can't assume that they'll let a complete newbie tag along.

The heart says to leave some space open, while the head reckons that rimfire can scratching the shooting itch on its own at lesser cost with more venues to choose from. Is there anything that I might have overlooked?
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Lazarus » 16 Dec 2022, 10:29 am

If you are planning on putting optics on your firearms, you will need a bigger safe than the advertised capacity.

I have found that I can only get 2 scoped rifles into a 3 gun safe, yet with a bit of jenga, I can get 5 bare rifles into the same space, leading me to need more than one safe.
Having said that, one of those scoped rifles is in a chassis with a pistol grip.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by jwai86 » 16 Dec 2022, 10:40 am

Lazarus wrote:If you are planning on putting optics on your firearms, you will need a bigger safe than the advertised capacity.

I'm already aware about getting a larger safe to avoid crowding, but adding another one or two rifles to the estimate when you're still not sure you'll need that space can complicate the decision on top of physical dimensions and cost.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by bigpete » 16 Dec 2022, 10:42 am

Lazarus wrote:If you are planning on putting optics on your firearms, you will need a bigger safe than the advertised capacity.

I have found that I can only get 2 scoped rifles into a 3 gun safe, yet with a bit of jenga, I can get 5 bare rifles into the same space, leading me to need more than one safe.
Having said that, one of those scoped rifles is in a chassis with a pistol grip.


Funny,I've got 17 in an 8 gun safe atm...
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Lazarus » 16 Dec 2022, 11:11 am

bigpete wrote:
Lazarus wrote:If you are planning on putting optics on your firearms, you will need a bigger safe than the advertised capacity.

I have found that I can only get 2 scoped rifles into a 3 gun safe, yet with a bit of jenga, I can get 5 bare rifles into the same space, leading me to need more than one safe.
Having said that, one of those scoped rifles is in a chassis with a pistol grip.


Funny,I've got 17 in an 8 gun safe atm...


I imagine different brands have different dimensions pete, my Range Rover station wagon has quite a bit more internal space than a Jeep.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by in2anity » 16 Dec 2022, 11:25 am

Do not. I repeat. DO NOT. Buy a small 3-gun safe. Start with a 12gun at least. :lol: :drinks:
Last edited by in2anity on 16 Dec 2022, 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Lazarus » 16 Dec 2022, 11:28 am

in2anity wrote:Do not. I repeat. DO NOT. Buy a small 3-gun safe. Start with a 12gun at least.


Wish someone had told me that years ago :drinks:
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by bigpete » 16 Dec 2022, 11:30 am

Lazarus wrote:
bigpete wrote:
Lazarus wrote:If you are planning on putting optics on your firearms, you will need a bigger safe than the advertised capacity.

I have found that I can only get 2 scoped rifles into a 3 gun safe, yet with a bit of jenga, I can get 5 bare rifles into the same space, leading me to need more than one safe.
Having said that, one of those scoped rifles is in a chassis with a pistol grip.


Funny,I've got 17 in an 8 gun safe atm...


I imagine different brands have different dimensions pete, my Range Rover station wagon has quite a bit more internal space than a Jeep.


All depends on how you utilise the space ;)
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by in2anity » 16 Dec 2022, 11:33 am

Lazarus wrote:Wish someone had told me that years ago :drinks:

We all did! :lol:
Please, explain to me the practical difference between the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5×55 Swedish cartridge. GO.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Lazarus » 16 Dec 2022, 11:33 am

Ah, the Tardis principle
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by jwai86 » 16 Dec 2022, 12:09 pm

I'm currently looking at the following options that can fit inside a relatively narrow built-in wardrobe space.

https://www.horsleyparkgunshop.com.au/p ... egoryId=90
https://www.horsleyparkgunshop.com.au/p ... egoryId=90
https://www.horsleyparkgunshop.com.au/p ... egoryId=92

I'm not sure if it came through in my initial post, but my concern is whether I can get enough use out of centrefire rifles (such as something in .223) to justify their generally higher initial and ongoing costs, including additional storage space. I'm currently leaning towards sticking with .22 LR because the ammunition is cheaper and there are more venues that permit rimfire rifles, but perhaps there's something I haven't thought about that could change that.
Last edited by jwai86 on 16 Dec 2022, 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Blr243 » 16 Dec 2022, 12:11 pm

Of the uncertain skeptical bunch of people not knowing how much you will expand. I reckon 80-90 per cent of them will end up buying more.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by jwai86 » 16 Dec 2022, 12:19 pm

Blr243 wrote:Of the uncertain skeptical bunch of people not knowing how much you will expand. I reckon 80-90 per cent of them will end up buying more.

As far as rimfire rifles go, I can only imagine owning two at most. One being a sporter model with a scope, and the other having either open sights or a heavy barrel.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by deye243 » 16 Dec 2022, 12:57 pm

in2anity wrote:Do not. I repeat. DO NOT. Buy a small 3-gun safe. Start with a 12gun at least. :lol: :drinks:

I wholeheartedly agree with this one as I absolutely hate any Nicks or scratches on firearms from putting rifles in or taking them out of a safe this is a photo of the smallest of three safes can't rightly remember that it was either supposably a 6 or an 8 gun the next one up from this I've got is a 12 gun it's only got 8 in it but this is how I store my Firearms easy in easy out.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by scoot » 16 Dec 2022, 1:11 pm

Agreed, unless you don't care about knocks and dings you will almost halve a safes capacity when it comes to rifles. Scopes, stocks, etc all take up space. Rated capacities are a stretch for single shot open sight rimfires in my opinion.
If the thought of centrefires is in the back of your mind now you WILL go there.
You may be willing later to drive further on occasion to test yourself at the range once you've settled in. As for hunting, I judge any would be companions more on their character than their experience. We all gotta start somewhere.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Lazarus » 16 Dec 2022, 1:12 pm

deye243 wrote: .......I absolutely hate any Nicks or scratches on firearms from putting rifles in or taking them out of a safe......


My sentiments exactly.

Funny thing, I like my car to run like a swiss watch, on the inside.
Don't give much of a bugger about the paintwork now it's oxidised from 33yrs in the sun.

Plus the old banger exterior belies what lurks under it.
Much rather a "sleeper" than shiny thief bait.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Dec 2022, 1:45 pm

bigpete wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
bigpete wrote:
Lazarus wrote:If you are planning on putting optics on your firearms, you will need a bigger safe than the advertised capacity.

I have found that I can only get 2 scoped rifles into a 3 gun safe, yet with a bit of jenga, I can get 5 bare rifles into the same space, leading me to need more than one safe.
Having said that, one of those scoped rifles is in a chassis with a pistol grip.


Funny,I've got 17 in an 8 gun safe atm...


I imagine different brands have different dimensions pete, my Range Rover station wagon has quite a bit more internal space than a Jeep.


All depends on how you utilise the space ;)


How?
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by deye243 » 16 Dec 2022, 6:03 pm

Lazarus wrote:
deye243 wrote: .......I absolutely hate any Nicks or scratches on firearms from putting rifles in or taking them out of a safe......


My sentiments exactly.

Funny thing, I like my car to run like a swiss watch, on the inside.
Don't give much of a bugger about the paintwork now it's oxidised from 33yrs in the sun.

Plus the old banger exterior belies what lurks under it.
Much rather a "sleeper" than shiny thief bait.

Yep same here mechanically sound my old Hilux goes anywhere I need to go from the high country to the paddocks yet it looks like it's not worth stealing and that's the point.
diff locks proper wired Electrics air compressor ARB stuff yeah it looks like old Farmer Brown owns it just the way I want it Drive Mine through the scrub scratch it or stick a little dent in it nothing but character scar
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by bigrich » 16 Dec 2022, 6:41 pm

jwai86 wrote:After much bureaucratic wrangling, I'll be receiving my Category A/B licence (hopefully) within the new few weeks. Picking up a rimfire rifle to start learning to shoot is planned, but before that, I'll need a safe. However, I'm undecided on how much storage capacity to aim for because I'm unsure if I'll get enough use out of a centrefire rifle to consider budgeting spare capacity for at least one.

There are several ranges in metropolitan Sydney that I can easily travel to for shooting with a rimfire rifle. However, there are fewer ranges that allow centrefire rifles within the area that I can easily get to. The St Mary's indoor range allows centrefire rifles, but 50 metres might be a bit short to get maximum utility from expensive centrefire rounds. I can easily get to the Hornsby range, and their facilities are longer. However, the ranges at Malabar and Silverdale stretch the limits of easy travel with at least an hour's drive each way.

I've left hunting as an option on my licence, but I don't have have any prior experience let alone any possible hunting locations. A few people at my pistol club engage in hunting, but I can't assume that they'll let a complete newbie tag along.

The heart says to leave some space open, while the head reckons that rimfire can scratching the shooting itch on its own at lesser cost with more venues to choose from. Is there anything that I might have overlooked?


If you’re looking at getting a centre fire, 223 is the affordable way to go. It’s also a good caliber to learn reloading if optimal accuracy and the technical challenge are your thing. As far as hunting goes, not knowing your abilities or contacts makes it a hard thing to gauge a centre fire for future use
Another option/ interest if it’s your thing, is 357 mag lever guns are fun to shoot and not overly expensive for factory ammunition. About on par with 223 for cost. A 357 could be used at shorter pistol ranges as well I believe. Just a idea. Good luck with your decision, and I would get a 8-10 gun safe as a minimum
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Oldbloke » 16 Dec 2022, 7:22 pm

Yep, 223 and 8 or 10gun safe.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by jwai86 » 16 Dec 2022, 7:51 pm

bigrich wrote:If you’re looking at getting a centre fire, 223 is the affordable way to go. It’s also a good caliber to learn reloading if optimal accuracy and the technical challenge are your thing.

.223 is indeed what I had in mind. I haven't thought about reloading given the uncertainty about using that calibre at all.

bigrich wrote:As far as hunting goes, not knowing your abilities or contacts makes it a hard thing to gauge a centre fire for future use

I concur. If going hunting was more probable, then I might have a stronger case. Without that, my case is currently weak given the relative scarcity of ranges in Sydney that permit the use of centrefire rifles.

bigrich wrote:I would get a 8-10 gun safe as a minimum

It will come down to what will fit inside my particular wardrobe space and not cost too much. The Lokaway LBA8 or LOK2K-BSG safes that I linked to from the Horsley Park Gun Shop website seem decent.

After getting a safe installed and acquiring a rimfire rifle, it might be better to play it by ear from that point instead of agonising over what to do far in advance.
Last edited by jwai86 on 16 Dec 2022, 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by animalpest » 16 Dec 2022, 7:52 pm

There is not much difference in price between a safe for 2 or so guns and one for more. Get the bigger one and you don't have to both again. Maybe
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Diamond Jim » 16 Dec 2022, 10:26 pm

jwai86 wrote:I'm currently looking at the following options that can fit inside a relatively narrow built-in wardrobe space.

https://www.horsleyparkgunshop.com.au/p ... egoryId=90
https://www.horsleyparkgunshop.com.au/p ... egoryId=90
https://www.horsleyparkgunshop.com.au/p ... egoryId=92

I'm not sure if it came through in my initial post, but my concern is whether I can get enough use out of centrefire rifles (such as something in .223) to justify their generally higher initial and ongoing costs, including additional storage space. I'm currently leaning towards sticking with .22 LR because the ammunition is cheaper and there are more venues that permit rimfire rifles, but perhaps there's something I haven't thought about that could change that.


I guess it comes down to "genuine reason" and "genuine need" as opposed to "want" (at least in WA anyway). Here we have to satisfy two questions for a FAL.
Reason - For what reason do you want a rifle? Is it for target shooting or hunting or both? "Recreational shooting and hunting" is a common reason.
Need - Why do you need that specific calibre? Can you do the task with a smaller or less powerful calibre? If you are competing in centrefire competition, then you need a centrefire rifle. If you are hunting large animals and/or at distances beyond the effective range of a rimfire then you need an appropriate centrefire.
Then you have to prove you have somewhere to use the firearm. Unless you own acreage, that means either proof of active club membership (I believe some states accept SSAA membership but not in WA) or a letter from a property owner with sufficient land area stating that you have permission to shoot on his/her property (we have no shooting on Crown Land so no hunting in state forests etc.).
If you don't have somewhere to shoot a centrefire then clearly you don't have a reason or a need for a centrefire.
Last edited by Diamond Jim on 17 Dec 2022, 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Faedy » 16 Dec 2022, 11:48 pm

I can definitely agree with all comments above.
Think about how many guns you may want, and multiply by 3 - buy that size safe..I started with a 5 gun safe, then 9, then 12..now 35 gun safe, plus kept the others for ammo etc.
>223 is by far the most versatile centrefire you will ever own. I have a couple, and love them. My pick for a hunter is a tikka t3 or plinking, Sauer.
177 Diana
177 Weihrauch
177 BSA
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C&H 22
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Remington 7600 .308
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Adler 12 ga
Miroku mk10 12 ga
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Oldbloke » 17 Dec 2022, 4:54 pm

Yep, 223 is a fantastic round.
You can easily end up with 8 or 10 firearms.
But.
If you want to be miserly,
22lr
223
308 or say 270/30.06
12g shotty
Will in reality cover nearly every thing. (hunting wise)

I'll wash my mouth out with soap now.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Biscuits » 17 Dec 2022, 6:48 pm

When safes get crowded, rifles get scratched. You want a 8-10gun safe. That will allow you to fit 4-6 rifles with scopes and pistol grips inside, without jamming them in. You absolutely cannot fit 5 guns in a 5 gun safe if they have any kind of optic or pistol grip on them.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by SCJ429 » 18 Dec 2022, 8:57 am

Lazarus wrote:
deye243 wrote: .......I absolutely hate any Nicks or scratches on firearms from putting rifles in or taking them out of a safe......


My sentiments exactly.

Funny thing, I like my car to run like a swiss watch, on the inside.
Don't give much of a bugger about the paintwork now it's oxidised from 33yrs in the sun.

Plus the old banger exterior belies what lurks under it.
Much rather a "sleeper" than shiny thief bait.

Is there an LS3 lurking in your 33 year old car??
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by Lazarus » 18 Dec 2022, 9:53 am

SCJ429 wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
deye243 wrote: .......I absolutely hate any Nicks or scratches on firearms from putting rifles in or taking them out of a safe......


My sentiments exactly.

Funny thing, I like my car to run like a swiss watch, on the inside.
Don't give much of a bugger about the paintwork now it's oxidised from 33yrs in the sun.

Plus the old banger exterior belies what lurks under it.
Much rather a "sleeper" than shiny thief bait.

Is there an LS3 lurking in your 33 year old car??


Oh, that's my current fantasy.

It started life as a mild mannered, bog standard 3.5 Rover V8.

A mob in Canberra who specialised in performance upgrades on Land Rovers in general and Range Rovers in particular, turned it into a 4.6 stroker with Motec injection, cold air induction, all manner of internal jiggery-pokery, 3" exhaust, etc.
They also replaced the standard landy brakes with big ventilated discs and swapped the standard suspension for Bilstien dampers and King Springs.
They put in ARB diff lockers as well, so it not only goes like a stabbed rat but will climb a snotty window.

The reason I'd like to go the LS3 or LSA, is that he's pushing 500,000 km now and starting to get tired.

So an LS3 with a nice 6 speed auto..........mmmm
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by jwai86 » 18 Dec 2022, 10:28 am

Oldbloke wrote:Yep, 223 is a fantastic round.
You can easily end up with 8 or 10 firearms.
But.
If you want to be miserly,
22lr
223
308 or say 270/30.06
12g shotty
Will in reality cover nearly every thing. (hunting wise)

I'll wash my mouth out with soap now.

I agree with your choice of calibres for covering most hunting targets, but if I'm already struggling to justify picking up .223 based on my projected usage (with hunting being a huge question mark), then .308 and 12 gauge may as well be moot. I already have many expensive items (not related to firearms) hoarded at home that don't get used as much I would have thought, so I doubt I'll want that many longarms unless I am sure I'll get regular use from each of them.

I don't have the same dilemma with handguns because I need to use them regularly to maintain my licence, and the weekly matches run at my club are known quantities that require specific types of handgun.
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Re: Unsure about branching out to centrefire rifles

Post by bladeracer » 18 Dec 2022, 2:04 pm

jwai86 wrote:I agree with your choice of calibres for covering most hunting targets, but if I'm already struggling to justify picking up .223 based on my projected usage (with hunting being a huge question mark), then .308 and 12 gauge may as well be moot. I already have many expensive items (not related to firearms) hoarded at home that don't get used as much I would have thought, so I doubt I'll want that many longarms unless I am sure I'll get regular use from each of them.

I don't have the same dilemma with handguns because I need to use them regularly to maintain my licence, and the weekly matches run at my club are known quantities that require specific types of handgun.


As you only want to shoot paper with it does your club have a club rifle you can use a bit to decide if you enjoy it?
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