Pta refusal?

[AZZA'S HJ47]

Good afternoon gents

Wondering if any of you have come across the following is this something new does anyone have any pointers perhaps. Fyi i already have a sporter 308.

[No1Mk3]

Did they not give a reason for the refusal? Here in Vic the refusal is always accompanied by a letter stating the reason, if Qld doesn't I would email or ring your Weapons Licensing and ask

[AZZA'S HJ47]

All they have asked is why cant I use what i already have

[Blr243]

I got a slow pta once for a 308 From memory i have a howa , rem and a browning … when i called to see the progress they said tje pta was in tje hands of a supervisor to finslise tje decision. I got it. No refusal , but I believe there will be gradual pressure from the government to keep gun numbers down by policy rather than actual laws .. and they can do that anytime anyhow as they dit there making all the decisions by themselves. They can sort of really give us a hard time if they want. …. If they are asking why u need it i would be pointing out all the differences and applications , anything at all that shows one 308 is different from another 308. Afyer all only the cslibre is the same. Otjer than thst thete could be numerous differences.. if u put it together well ( your response) i think its likely it will b approved.. wishing u luck , and kerp us posted please

[bladeracer]

Good afternoon gents

Wondering if any of you have come across the following is this something new does anyone have any pointers perhaps. Fyi i already have a sporter 308.

This is pretty much what I get in Victoria with every CatB now (over 15 CatB). I just write a letter explaining why my current CatB rifles are not suitable. I haven't had one questioned so I guess it's just a record that they asked the question and I took the time to respond to them.

[GQshayne]

I have not had any recent PTA's done. But I have three .243's, two of them are BLR's. The original .243 was owned prior to any gun laws, but both BLR's were obtained via PTA, and neither were question. My dad also has two .243's and one was bought in the last 12 months and not questioned.

Most of us do not have the money to do so, but this sounds like a good reason to take legal action. They have no right to do this. But without creating further issues, I would be requesting a written advice showing cause as to why it was rejected.

[BMW]

Pretty standard now in S.A. my last pta was for a 470NE double. The pta went back to firearms branch 11 times before it was approved. Took 6 months. They kept saying I have a 460WBY and therefore have no justification for owning any other cat b's for purpose of use hunting. Had to join a big game club 800kms from where I live and apply for purpose of use, hunting, club use and target shooting. They were also of the opinion that no person has any justification for owning 28 cat b firearms.

[Fionn]

They were also of the opinion that no person has any justification for owning 28 cat b firearms.

I and most people would agree with that if your reason for owning them was hunting.

[Die Judicii]

Pretty standard now in S.A. my last pta was for a 470NE double. The pta went back to firearms branch 11 times before it was approved. Took 6 months. They kept saying I have a 460WBY and therefore have no justification for owning any other cat b's for purpose of use hunting. Had to join a big game club 800kms from where I live and apply for purpose of use, hunting, club use and target shooting. They were also of the opinion that no person has any justification for owning 28 cat b firearms

There are so many women working in WLB nowadays,,,,,,,,, I'd be tempted to ring them and (if u get a woman) talk to her about the "no justification",,,, and then ask her,, How many rings and necklaces do you have love ???

[Fionn]

There are so many women working in WLB nowadays,,,,,,,,, I'd be tempted to ring them and (if u get a woman) talk to her about the "no justification",,,, and then ask her,, How many rings and necklaces do you have love ???

Rather silly comparison as you don't need permission from the government to buy rings and necklaces, but you do firearms.

[Larry]

I have not had any recent PTA's done. But I have three .243's, two of them are BLR's. The original .243 was owned prior to any gun laws, but both BLR's were obtained via PTA, and neither were question. My dad also has two .243's and one was bought in the last 12 months and not questioned.

Most of us do not have the money to do so, but this sounds like a good reason to take legal action. They have no right to do this. But without creating further issues, I would be requesting a written advice showing cause as to why it was rejected.

The issue is that they do have a right to knock back PTAs and a policy and a guideline on the reasons to do it.

[BMW]

They were also of the opinion that no person has any justification for owning 28 cat b firearms.

I and most people would agree with that if your reason for owning them was hunting.

But it's not your business or anybody else's is it? It's between me and firearms branch. Incidentally I also own double that in cat A firearms registered for hunting, I can buy another 60 tomorrow and tick the box on the pta that says hunting and every pta will come back approved within 3 days. Now put that in your anti-firearms pipe and smoke it.

[bladeracer]

They were also of the opinion that no person has any justification for owning 28 cat b firearms.

I and most people would agree with that if your reason for owning them was hunting.

But it's not your business or anybody else's is it? It's between me and firearms branch. Incidentally I also own double that in cat A firearms registered for hunting, I can buy another 60 tomorrow and tick the box on the pta that says hunting and every pta will come back approved within 3 days. Now put that in your anti-firearms pipe and smoke it.

Correct, I don't have to write the same letter of explanation for CatA firearms, it's only CatB they're interested in, for the moment at least.

Just as I read lots and lots of different books, I enjoy shooting and hunting with lots of variety of firearms, and I consider it to be perfectly reasonable. One day I may find a single rifle that optimally deals with every convolution possible in the field, but I doubt such a thing exists. Until then I'm happy to continue to enjoy the testing process, with as many different firearms as I want to play with. When the government wants to pay me to shoot for them then they can issue me a single firearm and I'll use that, until then it is, and should be, entirely up to me as to which best suits the situation.

[BMW]

Dead right BR. I simply love firearms, I am an enthusiast. Hell I've bought firearms 30 years ago that I've never actually fired. Non shooters like this fionn chap will never understand the passion I have. I'm 49 years old and might live another 10 or so, why should I go the rest of my life without buying another centerfire, simply not going to happen. Guys here in S.A. are giving up after only 4 or 5 attempts at a pta. Just what our new superintendent in charge of firearms wants. His first speech when he took over went something along the lines of: "South Australian shooters have had it to good for too long. This ends now." And so began the practice here of sending all cat b ptas back to the applicant for 'further justification'.

[womble]

I don’t own heaps but that’s probably because I’ve somehow convinced myself that I can definitely get another in that safe if I have to.
But I think shooters who’ve invested more than me would have their favourite calibers and will have invested a lot of time and money into those calibers. All the reloading knowledge and equipment etc.
And you’re likely to own a few rifles in the particular calibers you favour and they’re all going to be set up differently for how you intend to use them.
And having plod micro managing your hobbies and interests is going to cause you endless frustration unless you learn how to speak his language.
So perhaps some advice on how Azza can word his application might be more useful than this mothers club hen fight.
Can we try than instead ladies

[bigrich]

Dead right BR. I simply love firearms, I am an enthusiast. Hell I've bought firearms 30 years ago that I've never actually fired. Non shooters like this fionn chap will never understand the passion I have. I'm 49 years old and might live another 10 or so, why should I go the rest of my life without buying another centerfire, simply not going to happen. Guys here in S.A. are giving up after only 4 or 5 attempts at a pta. Just what our new superintendent in charge of firearms wants. His first speech when he took over went something along the lines of: "South Australian shooters have had it to good for too long. This ends now." And so began the practice here of sending all cat b ptas back to the applicant for 'further justification'.

to people that don't shoot or hunt 28 firearms is too many . i've bought/owned/shot many old collectable firearms on the basis of their historical significance . once i've explained that to some non-shooting folks i know, they appreciate where i'm coming from . they also have understood the need for different calibers/rifles for different uses too once it's been explained that you don't shoot rabbits with a 30-06 or pigs with a 222 for the reason of ballistic performance .

public servants have no compassion for firearm owners and these sorts of restrictions by policy will become more common i'm afraid . we need political and legal representation that's more vocal . groups like the NSC that will go to court for people will make the government a little more cautious about being too heavy handed with laws . but WL "policy" is another matter i think i've been told by a lawyer you can have a win in QCAT with a judge agreeing with you , but WL can still say stuff it , ignore the judges ruling , and not comply

[bigrich]

So perhaps some advice on how Azza can word his application might be more useful than this mothers club hen fight.
Can we try than instead ladies

[deanp100]

I just went through this , as have several people I know. I was asked to justify the need when I already had 27 other guns. I replied with why this 223 was different . It sat for 56 days when I finally rang and they said “ I can see that you have sent in information. I’ll get that approved right away”. They didn’t even read it .Just put me through the process. I have now heard they are dropping it as it took up,extraordinary amounts of time for them. If they haven’t said no yet just reply with a good reason. You’ll be right. I don’t know anyone who actually got knocked back, just questioned.

[AZZA'S HJ47]

I don’t own heaps but that’s probably because I’ve somehow convinced myself that I can definitely get another in that safe if I have to.
But I think shooters who’ve invested more than me would have their favourite calibers and will have invested a lot of time and money into those calibers. All the reloading knowledge and equipment etc.
And you’re likely to own a few rifles in the particular calibers you favour and they’re all going to be set up differently for how you intend to use them.
And having plod micro managing your hobbies and interests is going to cause you endless frustration unless you learn how to speak his language.
So perhaps some advice on how Azza can word his application might be more useful than this mothers club hen fight.
Can we try than instead ladies

Shooters Union will have a template for me on monday for me to fill in they seemed genuinely interested wanting to know all the details even had a fair old chat about my 303s.

Apparently it is on the rise with Wa having paperwork in the works for a max 10 gun limit for licenced shooters. Moving forward with the whole thing I think I'll apply for my collectors licence just to stir the pot.

Thanks for bringing the chat back Womble

Plus ive just got another 2 mates into shooting with one just yesterday putting in his first ptas in we need to bring up our numbers as a whole and ditch the apathetic mentality all for one if we all jumpd on the band wagon wed all be in a much better place.

[GQshayne]

I have not had any recent PTA's done. But I have three .243's, two of them are BLR's. The original .243 was owned prior to any gun laws, but both BLR's were obtained via PTA, and neither were question. My dad also has two .243's and one was bought in the last 12 months and not questioned.

Most of us do not have the money to do so, but this sounds like a good reason to take legal action. They have no right to do this. But without creating further issues, I would be requesting a written advice showing cause as to why it was rejected.

The issue is that they do have a right to knock back PTAs and a policy and a guideline on the reasons to do it.

I would like to know what reference you have for this, as I have never heard of it before. Like Azza, I am in Qld too and in the same cirsumstance had PTA's approved.

[bigrich]

I don’t own heaps but that’s probably because I’ve somehow convinced myself that I can definitely get another in that safe if I have to.
But I think shooters who’ve invested more than me would have their favourite calibers and will have invested a lot of time and money into those calibers. All the reloading knowledge and equipment etc.
And you’re likely to own a few rifles in the particular calibers you favour and they’re all going to be set up differently for how you intend to use them.
And having plod micro managing your hobbies and interests is going to cause you endless frustration unless you learn how to speak his language.
So perhaps some advice on how Azza can word his application might be more useful than this mothers club hen fight.
Can we try than instead ladies

Shooters Union will have a template for me on monday for me to fill in they seemed genuinely interested wanting to know all the details even had a fair old chat about my 303s.

Apparently it is on the rise with Wa having paperwork in the works for a max 10 gun limit for licenced shooters. Moving forward with the whole thing I think I'll apply for my collectors licence just to stir the pot.

Thanks for bringing the chat back Womble

Plus ive just got another 2 mates into shooting with one just yesterday putting in his first ptas in we need to bring up our numbers as a whole and ditch the apathetic mentality all for one if we all jumpd on the band wagon wed all be in a much better place.

the media and guvmnt demonise firearm owners and create a "us and them" mentallity amongst non-shooters in the suburbs and city's . this divide needs to be broken down . but with all the facts and logic i guess we'll never get through to vegans and animal libbers

[JohnV]

You must keep records of your previous reasons to acquire . Make sure you come up with a fresh new reason each time to justify that same cartridge in another gun . If the reason you use is the same as a previous one then they see that as you don't need a new one . I bamboozle them with all kind of things about sporter weights , varmint weights , lever actions , bolt actions , styles of hunting , physical game sizes , need to kill humanely etc etc etc. If you play around with all that in different ways to imply that a new gun will be needed to do a different job than the ones you already have they don't really know the difference anyway . Most of the people looking at these reasons to aquire don't know much about guns anyway and are just comparing what you said before .

[Die Judicii]

There are so many women working in WLB nowadays,,,,,,,,, I'd be tempted to ring them and (if u get a woman) talk to her about the "no justification",,,, and then ask her,, How many rings and necklaces do you have love ???

Rather silly comparison as you don't need permission from the government to buy rings and necklaces, but you do firearms.

Said in jest of course, but you took it as serious.
But,,,,,,, reading between the lines I was implying the basic of,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Some people buy firearms because they like them,,, and why shouldn't they be able to,,,,, so long as it's done legally.
No difference as far as that's concerned to women buying jewelry,,,,,,, because they like diamonds.

[Blr243]

I u derstand djs comparison. At primary school I remember being educated on the definition of needs vs wants eg food vs lambourghine . For a roo shooter the 223 is a need. For us everthing firearm related is a want. From the licencing branch pov They are saying why do you need it ? True answer is we dont need it. We just want it. Just like a lady wants 25 pairs of expensive shoes …. Unfortunately our sport finds us wanting toys that we dont really need and the govt doesnt want us to have so this slow pta thing is here to stay… sad but true

[Wm.Traynor]

The government/police, do not care what we need. The question, "Why do you need it"?, is a diversion; a red herring of sorts, invented to allow it/them to easily, meretriciously and wantonly find fault with the applicant.

[Fionn]

But it's not your business or anybody else's is it? It's between me and firearms branch.

You invite it to be public business when you post it on public discussion forum! if you don't want it to be peoples business then don't post the information on a public discussion forum.

Incidentally I also own double that in cat A firearms registered for hunting, I can buy another 60 tomorrow and tick the box on the pta that says hunting and every pta will come back approved within 3 days. Now put that in your anti-firearms pipe and smoke it.

And this me, me, me attitude and abusing the intent of laws is what causes problems for LFO. Western Australia current issues is an example of how it can play out.

[Fionn]

Dead right BR. I simply love firearms, I am an enthusiast. Hell I've bought firearms 30 years ago that I've never actually fired. Non shooters like this fionn chap will never understand the passion I have.

The issue I have is that you are lying about your genuine reason which you said is for hunting, having firearms 30 years that you have never fired clearly shows this. But instead of doing the right thing and getting the correct licence, you abuse and make a mockery of the intent of the law.

I'm 49 years old and might live another 10 or so, why should I go the rest of my life without buying another centerfire, simply not going to happen. Guys here in S.A. are giving up after only 4 or 5 attempts at a pta. Just what our new superintendent in charge of firearms wants. His first speech when he took over went something along the lines of: "South Australian shooters have had it to good for too long. This ends now." And so began the practice here of sending all cat b ptas back to the applicant for 'further justification'.

Or another way to see it, is the superintendent is fed up with people like yourself abusing the intent of the law and taking action against it, thus your actions and the actions of others like you are making it hard for every LFO.

So well done.

[Fionn]

There are so many women working in WLB nowadays,,,,,,,,, I'd be tempted to ring them and (if u get a woman) talk to her about the "no justification",,,, and then ask her,, How many rings and necklaces do you have love ???

Rather silly comparison as you don't need permission from the government to buy rings and necklaces, but you do firearms.

Said in jest of course, but you took it as serious.
But,,,,,,, reading between the lines I was implying the basic of,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Some people buy firearms because they like them,,, and why shouldn't they be able to,,,,, so long as it's done legally.
No difference as far as that's concerned to women buying jewelry,,,,,,, because they like diamonds.

I know it was said in jest,

The point is and you see it often here on this forum, is that people believe they have a right to buy and own firearms in Australia.

You don't.

You are given permission by the government to do so, under their laws and conditions and only with their approval.

You don't have to seek and be given approval from the government to buy jewellery, although many men might be in favour of this this.

[animalpest]

There are so many women working in WLB nowadays,,,,,,,,, I'd be tempted to ring them and (if u get a woman) talk to her about the "no justification",,,, and then ask her,, How many rings and necklaces do you have love ???

Rather silly comparison as you don't need permission from the government to buy rings and necklaces, but you do firearms.

Said in jest of course, but you took it as serious.
But,,,,,,, reading between the lines I was implying the basic of,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Some people buy firearms because they like them,,, and why shouldn't they be able to,,,,, so long as it's done legally.
No difference as far as that's concerned to women buying jewelry,,,,,,, because they like diamonds.

I know it was said in jest,

The point is and you see it often here on this forum, is that people believe they have a right to buy and own firearms in Australia.

You don't.

You are given permission by the government to do so, under their laws and conditions and only with their approval.

You don't have to seek and be given approval from the government to buy jewellery, although many men might be in favour of this this.

Ok, so let's say your State government decided to pass laws restricting the purchase and possession of gold and diamonds - for whatever reason. Is that any different?

[womble]

Well that question just answered itself

Technically we have rights it’s just our government has overruled some of them by law.
Magna Carta 1215
Bill of rights 1869
Overruled. We don’t have the right to preservation of life, liberty, property.
Feel free to take it up in the courts, because you can. If you can afford it.
No. Didn’t think so.