importing from america

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importing from america

Post by mickb » 26 Nov 2023, 5:37 pm

gents have you ever pulled in a rifle from the US? I was considering finding a winchester bigbore in 444 if I can but wondered how many steps/difficulty is involved in getting it over. There used to be fellas in Australia who would facilitate the import( I believe they had a FFL/agent in the US the seller could ship to who would then export)
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Re: importing from america

Post by mickb » 26 Nov 2023, 5:39 pm

Scratch that, just checked prices these days lol
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Re: importing from america

Post by bladeracer » 26 Nov 2023, 6:33 pm

mickb wrote:gents have you ever pulled in a rifle from the US? I was considering finding a winchester bigbore in 444 if I can but wondered how many steps/difficulty is involved in getting it over. There used to be fellas in Australia who would facilitate the import( I believe they had a FFL/agent in the US the seller could ship to who would then export)


Easy enough to do but bloody expensive. You'd be better off finding an owner that doesn't want to sell and offer him double market value here.
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Re: importing from america

Post by Blr243 » 26 Nov 2023, 8:48 pm

I looked at buying some projectiles once. I think it was 8000 for 300 bucks worth I decided against it
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Re: importing from america

Post by straightshooter » 27 Nov 2023, 6:29 am

The Winchester bigbore in 444 angle eject wasn't in production for very long and was mostly overshadowed by the Marlin which is superior in many respects. So if you did find a decent example you would expect to pay collector prices.
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Re: importing from america

Post by alexjones » 27 Nov 2023, 9:11 am

You could fly to America, buy one, and fly back to Australia with it. Obviously get the B709 beforehand.

Australians are able to enter America on the visa waiver program so are exempt from being prohibited from buying or possessing firearms. All you need to do is buy a hunting permit online.

So we are not excluded federally from buying guns we just have to follow state laws. If you buy from a gun shop you will have to wait the 3 days before you can pick up the gun because the background check will comeback a "conditional no" and the ATF have to do a manual check because you are an non immigrant alien. Then you will receive the yes. If you buy from a private individual you can take the gun straight away as no background check is required for private sales(state dependent).

Enjoy your legal firearm whilst being a tourist in America. And fly it back to Australia or keep it at a friends place in America or in a storage locker or wherever you want as it is legally yours. America is awesome.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-pr ... grant-visa



If you want to go proper you can buy land and a big truck in a America and keep your guns there. Just cant stay more than 90 days at a time to still be under the visa waiver program. So once a year you can have a 3 month trip to America and live like a freeman.
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Re: importing from america

Post by mickb » 27 Nov 2023, 5:26 pm

straightshooter wrote:The Winchester bigbore in 444 angle eject wasn't in production for very long and was mostly overshadowed by the Marlin which is superior in many respects. So if you did find a decent example you would expect to pay collector prices.


yes those prices are the problem straight shooter. One advantage of the 94 bigbore was action strength, it can handle 50Kpsi+, makes for some interesting loads in the calibre. I have shelved the idea now, might get a 444 done on a CVA instead.
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Re: importing from america

Post by mickb » 27 Nov 2023, 5:27 pm

alexjones wrote:You could fly to America, buy one, and fly back to Australia with it. Obviously get the B709 beforehand.

Australians are able to enter America on the visa waiver program so are exempt from being prohibited from buying or possessing firearms. All you need to do is buy a hunting permit online.

So we are not excluded federally from buying guns we just have to follow state laws. If you buy from a gun shop you will have to wait the 3 days before you can pick up the gun because the background check will comeback a "conditional no" and the ATF have to do a manual check because you are an non immigrant alien. Then you will receive the yes. If you buy from a private individual you can take the gun straight away as no background check is required for private sales(state dependent).

Enjoy your legal firearm whilst being a tourist in America. And fly it back to Australia or keep it at a friends place in America or in a storage locker or wherever you want as it is legally yours. America is awesome.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does-pr ... grant-visa



If you want to go proper you can buy land and a big truck in a America and keep your guns there. Just cant stay more than 90 days at a time to still be under the visa waiver program. So once a year you can have a 3 month trip to America and live like a freeman.


Interesting to know mate.
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Re: importing from america

Post by mchughcb » 27 Nov 2023, 7:36 pm

Just use weexportguns. Rob is legend. I sendt my B709A form and transferred the money to his account. Firearm arrived in Australia 8 days later for a cost of $400. Duty, GST etc was separate and I paid here.
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Re: importing from america

Post by mickb » 03 Dec 2023, 6:31 pm

thanks for the tip mate, good to know for the future
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Re: importing from america

Post by moopere » 13 Dec 2023, 5:47 pm

mchughcb wrote:Just use weexportguns. Rob is legend. I sendt my B709A form and transferred the money to his account. Firearm arrived in Australia 8 days later for a cost of $400. Duty, GST etc was separate and I paid here.


Thanks for the tip!

Seems relatively straightforward though not cheap. I guess it was never going to be.

PITA for WA people like me though. As many would know we have to nominate the firearm by specifying its serial number _before_ applying for the license to own it - a big ask of a foreign business to keep a nominated firearm for as long as it takes WAPOL to organise themselves with no guarantee of success.

Really _really_ want to get one of these:

open-top.jpg
open-top.jpg (14.51 KiB) Viewed 6197 times


... and none in Australia ... seemingly ever. Pretty niche unit for sure.
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Re: importing from america

Post by alexjones » 16 Dec 2023, 7:41 am

moopere wrote:
mchughcb wrote:Just use weexportguns. Rob is legend. I sendt my B709A form and transferred the money to his account. Firearm arrived in Australia 8 days later for a cost of $400. Duty, GST etc was separate and I paid here.


Thanks for the tip!

Seems relatively straightforward though not cheap. I guess it was never going to be.

PITA for WA people like me though. As many would know we have to nominate the firearm by specifying its serial number _before_ applying for the license to own it - a big ask of a foreign business to keep a nominated firearm for as long as it takes WAPOL to organise themselves with no guarantee of success.

Really _really_ want to get one of these:

open-top.jpg


... and none in Australia ... seemingly ever. Pretty niche unit for sure.


Send it to a dealer in the eastern states. When they take possession they can give you the serial number and send it to you. Be prepared to pay for their time in doing the work.
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Re: importing from america

Post by moopere » 29 Dec 2023, 11:37 am

alexjones wrote:Send it to a dealer in the eastern states. When they take possession they can give you the serial number and send it to you. Be prepared to pay for their time in doing the work.


The problem with the way WA laws work is that you apply for a license against a specific firearm based upon its serial number. The act of having to _apply_ implies that you may not necessarily be successful ... my application may be rejected. If the worst were to happen ... then what? I've bought and own a pistol which is now at a dealership in the east and for which I can't actually take possession.

I'd have to sell it via the dealer, obviously, because storage fees would just keep coming and there would not be any obvious way forward other than to dispose of the pistol ... quite the potential financial loss I suspect.
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Re: importing from america

Post by bladeracer » 29 Dec 2023, 12:49 pm

moopere wrote:
alexjones wrote:Send it to a dealer in the eastern states. When they take possession they can give you the serial number and send it to you. Be prepared to pay for their time in doing the work.


The problem with the way WA laws work is that you apply for a license against a specific firearm based upon its serial number. The act of having to _apply_ implies that you may not necessarily be successful ... my application may be rejected. If the worst were to happen ... then what? I've bought and own a pistol which is now at a dealership in the east and for which I can't actually take possession.

I'd have to sell it via the dealer, obviously, because storage fees would just keep coming and there would not be any obvious way forward other than to dispose of the pistol ... quite the potential financial loss I suspect.



If you're buying a specific pistol though you will know the serial number. So put that in your application, get it approved first, then buy it from the seller. But you might have to offer the seller a financial incentive to hold it for you for that period.

Personally, I wouldn't import something unless it was very special and not available here. Is there something about this pistol that makes it "special" over buying one here in Oz?
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Re: importing from america

Post by moopere » 29 Dec 2023, 4:41 pm

bladeracer wrote:If you're buying a specific pistol though you will know the serial number. So put that in your application, get it approved first, then buy it from the seller. But you might have to offer the seller a financial incentive to hold it for you for that period.


The problem is one of being in WA. I can't apply for a license to own a pistol of this make and model I must specify the serial number of the pistol being applied for. It creates an immediate conundrum.

- Find someone stocking the pistol you want to buy. I don't care about the serial number personally, I know which model I want and anything within that model run will satisfy me ... however ...

- WAPOL want to know the serial number of the pistol to be licensed. So I'd have to buy it before I apply to WAPOL to be able to legally possess it.

- What happens here in WA is that your local friendly gun shop, with the pistol you want, will put the specific pistol, with the specified serial number, aside for you with a suitable deposit awaiting your license outcome. I've not had an application fail so far but verbally I'm led to believe that unsuccessful licensees can expect gunshops to return the deposit upon presentation of the paperwork accompanying the rejected license application. By the way, this is a _huge_ imposition in my view on a gunshops ability to be profitable ... holding god knows how much stock on any given day not knowing for sure if its going to convert to an actual finalised sale.

- If your application is successful you go to your gunshop with the paperwork and the remaining payment for the pistol and they release it to you.

You can see right away why noone who isn't resident or trying to run a firearms business in WA would want anything to do with that convoluted mess.

bladeracer wrote:Personally, I wouldn't import something unless it was very special and not available here. Is there something about this pistol that makes it "special" over buying one here in Oz?


This was my hope. I even saw the pistol I wanted on Cleavers web page (I think it was them), but no stock ever arrived and no ETA or any idea whatsoever if any would be ordered at any time in the future. I've not seen this pistol online for sale anywhere else in Australia.

Its fine - I don't want to overdo the whinging (ahaha!). I'm thinking that the personal import, from the USA, would only work for me if I licensed myself over east, in whichever reasonable state licenses the shooter for the firearm type rather than the specific serialised unit. I need to check but I'm thinking basically anywhere that isn't WA does things this way. I get a Cat H license in say VIC, and once I've got the license I can buy any Cat H pistol. Risk then reduces to almost zero when doing an import. I would then try to license it over here in WA and if unsuccessful would keep it in the east
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Re: importing from america

Post by No1Mk3 » 29 Dec 2023, 4:57 pm

moopere wrote:
mchughcb wrote:Just use weexportguns. Rob is legend. I sendt my B709A form and transferred the money to his account. Firearm arrived in Australia 8 days later for a cost of $400. Duty, GST etc was separate and I paid here.


Thanks for the tip!

Seems relatively straightforward though not cheap. I guess it was never going to be.

PITA for WA people like me though. As many would know we have to nominate the firearm by specifying its serial number _before_ applying for the license to own it - a big ask of a foreign business to keep a nominated firearm for as long as it takes WAPOL to organise themselves with no guarantee of success.

Really _really_ want to get one of these:

open-top.jpg


... and none in Australia ... seemingly ever. Pretty niche unit for sure.


You can buy the revolver in Qld, Cleaver sells the Cimmaron open top conversion. The special "Man with No Name"grips could be gotten later or perhaps Cleaver could get a set for you. Revolver is about $1100 plus what it would cost to get from Qld to WA
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Re: importing from america

Post by bladeracer » 29 Dec 2023, 5:36 pm

Yes, I know how it works in WA, I spent half my life there, and glad to have left. You can only hold a licence in your state of residence, and can't hold two licences anymore. You could buy it in somebody else's name over east, and leave it in their possession for you to use whenever you're over there. You could even bring it back to WA on temporary permits for six months of every year - assuming that you could co-licence for a firearm that resides in another state?

Yes, you find a dealer in the US with the pistol. You buy it and offer him a couple hundred bucks to tolerate you having to go through the six-month rigmarole of getting it licenced here. When/if you get approval then you have him send it over. So you do know the serial number well ahead of time. If you don't get approval then you get it listed on Gunbroker or something and sell it at a loss, but at least you tried.

As I asked, what is so special about this pistol that sets it aside from all the other replicas out there? Can't you buy something else locally and trick it up to look like this one?

moopere wrote:
bladeracer wrote:If you're buying a specific pistol though you will know the serial number. So put that in your application, get it approved first, then buy it from the seller. But you might have to offer the seller a financial incentive to hold it for you for that period.


The problem is one of being in WA. I can't apply for a license to own a pistol of this make and model I must specify the serial number of the pistol being applied for. It creates an immediate conundrum.

- Find someone stocking the pistol you want to buy. I don't care about the serial number personally, I know which model I want and anything within that model run will satisfy me ... however ...

- WAPOL want to know the serial number of the pistol to be licensed. So I'd have to buy it before I apply to WAPOL to be able to legally possess it.

- What happens here in WA is that your local friendly gun shop, with the pistol you want, will put the specific pistol, with the specified serial number, aside for you with a suitable deposit awaiting your license outcome. I've not had an application fail so far but verbally I'm led to believe that unsuccessful licensees can expect gunshops to return the deposit upon presentation of the paperwork accompanying the rejected license application. By the way, this is a _huge_ imposition in my view on a gunshops ability to be profitable ... holding god knows how much stock on any given day not knowing for sure if its going to convert to an actual finalised sale.

- If your application is successful you go to your gunshop with the paperwork and the remaining payment for the pistol and they release it to you.

You can see right away why noone who isn't resident or trying to run a firearms business in WA would want anything to do with that convoluted mess.

bladeracer wrote:Personally, I wouldn't import something unless it was very special and not available here. Is there something about this pistol that makes it "special" over buying one here in Oz?


This was my hope. I even saw the pistol I wanted on Cleavers web page (I think it was them), but no stock ever arrived and no ETA or any idea whatsoever if any would be ordered at any time in the future. I've not seen this pistol online for sale anywhere else in Australia.

Its fine - I don't want to overdo the whinging (ahaha!). I'm thinking that the personal import, from the USA, would only work for me if I licensed myself over east, in whichever reasonable state licenses the shooter for the firearm type rather than the specific serialised unit. I need to check but I'm thinking basically anywhere that isn't WA does things this way. I get a Cat H license in say VIC, and once I've got the license I can buy any Cat H pistol. Risk then reduces to almost zero when doing an import. I would then try to license it over here in WA and if unsuccessful would keep it in the east
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Re: importing from america

Post by alexjones » 30 Dec 2023, 6:35 am

If you want the pistol so bad you will just have to spend the money to import it and run the risk that it wont be registered in WA. Which will leave you having to sell it(or keep it in another state) probably for a loss. It is a gamble but if you want something that bad you will do it.

I do see a lot of adds on used guns saying they wont ship to WA because of the hassle of only being allowed to send to like one destination.

Because in QLD we can get guns sent to our front door and the postman has no idea what's inside the box he is carrying.
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Re: importing from america

Post by moopere » 30 Dec 2023, 11:00 am

bladeracer wrote:Yes, I know how it works in WA, I spent half my life there, and glad to have left. You can only hold a licence in your state of residence, and can't hold two licences anymore. You could buy it in somebody else's name over east, and leave it in their possession for you to use whenever you're over there. You could even bring it back to WA on temporary permits for six months of every year - assuming that you could co-licence for a firearm that resides in another state?


Mmm. Interesting ideas.


bladeracer wrote:Yes, you find a dealer in the US with the pistol. You buy it and offer him a couple hundred bucks to tolerate you having to go through the six-month rigmarole of getting it licenced here. When/if you get approval then you have him send it over. So you do know the serial number well ahead of time. If you don't get approval then you get it listed on Gunbroker or something and sell it at a loss, but at least you tried.


Right. I see what you're saying. I sort of went through this scenario in my head before posting and it just seems so convoluted from the perspective of _anyone_ involved who isn't me (in WA) that it would likely be a no-go. I guess you never know until you ask though.


bladeracer wrote:As I asked, what is so special about this pistol that sets it aside from all the other replicas out there? Can't you buy something else locally and trick it up to look like this one?


Oh sure, reasonable question. This specific pistol is quite unique. I've not been able to find any others like it. Its presenting as an opentop conversion and there are other similar units available from Cimarron and from Uberti, but this one looks like a true early period conversion, it even retains the integrated ramrod along the barrel. Most replica conversions have changed the way the ramrod works so that its more convenient for the modern shooter. So, it sorta-kinda looks like its still there on other models, but they generally have a thumb catch and an integrated spring, meant to help remove spent brass. This specific pistol retains in its design what would have been the levered rod used to press the bullet into the chamber before it was 'converted'.
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Re: importing from america

Post by moopere » 30 Dec 2023, 11:11 am

No1Mk3 wrote:You can buy the revolver in Qld, Cleaver sells the Cimmaron open top conversion. The special "Man with No Name"grips could be gotten later or perhaps Cleaver could get a set for you. Revolver is about $1100 plus what it would cost to get from Qld to WA


Yeah, I'll give Cleavers another call. I've noted this pistol for sale on their web site for more than a year - the trouble is that the last several times I've called about it there has not been any actual stock ... despite no stock, the web page continues to list the pistol. Taking to the friendly folks there (and they are friendly!) they apologised for the confusion caused but were not able to offer any idea whatsoever as to when new stock might arrive or even _if_ new stock was ever going to be ordered.

On the "Man with no name" special inlaid grip, I don't actually care about those and in fact would prefer a pistol without them.

As others have suggested, the least risky route might ultimately be to see if Cleavers will import one on my behalf. If licensing goes south then theres a much more reasonable chance that an active operating dealer will be able to sell the pistol as new and in a decent timeframe. The fact that they appear to have had these models in stock at least once implies to me that they perceived some level of demand ... though not restocking also implies that demand was pretty low :unknown:

Whichever route, looks like long delays and lots of money at risk - but thats the sport in the modern day in WA I guess :roll:
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Re: importing from america

Post by moopere » 30 Dec 2023, 11:19 am

alexjones wrote:If you want the pistol so bad you will just have to spend the money to import it and run the risk that it wont be registered in WA. Which will leave you having to sell it(or keep it in another state) probably for a loss. It is a gamble but if you want something that bad you will do it.


hehe. It doesn't keep me awake at night :lol:

Like with any sport or hobby, I have some desires that I'd very much like to pursue, but thats about the size of it. I'm not likely to write a blank cheque to get a pistol I very much would like to own and shoot.

I see the old advertising for this pistol on Cleavers web site at about AU$1100. I'd have to add something to that asking price to get it over here and licensed up, but by the time we approach AU$2K I'd probably have to drop it into the dream unrequited category.
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